Serrapeptase Experiment

[ecstatichamster]

great to know another success story. @Queequeg

 

[ecstatichamster]

I got off it. Couldn't handle the stomach upset. HOWEVER, other proteolytic enzymes seemed fine (these are not enteric coated and can dissolve in the stomach.) Wasn't taking them long enough to have them build up, or know if they CAN build up. I am not taking them now as I cured my headaches through other means.

 

[Queequeg]

@ecstatichamster thank you! and I'm glad you've found another way to cure your headaches.
@GAF the serrapeptase completely got rid of my eye-floaters too.

I just found this really helpful post from a guy who claims he works for one of the serrapeptase companies http://forum.bulletproof.com/discussion/2171/how-much-serrapeptase-is-safe-to-take
"I work for the company that innovated serrapeptase as a supplement in North America - we were the first. I am going to tell you a few very crucial things about this product. There is no known toxicity level for this enzyme after 45 years of worldwide use. There are also zero serious side effects on record. So, the upper limit is only capped by your bank account.
Companies like ours source this product from the biofermenting facilities that create it, of which there are very few. There are 3 large companies involved in this (with one holding the vast majority of the market), and a handful of smaller companies. There are no supplements companies that make their own serrapeptase - we all buy it from these companies. So, there is no such thing as "the real deal" as suntoucher suggests; however, there is a proper way to deliver it, a proper way to take it, and a proper way to understand labels.
When we buy this in bulk, there are a few options. You can buy "enteric coated enzyme", meaning it has an enteric medium mixed with the powdered enzyme, or you can buy "clean" product without any other ingredients - enzyme only. There are also different activity levels per gram available. The higher activity level at the lowest weight is the highest quality - this is why there must be a measurement of U, IU, or SPU per DOSE on the supplement label in order for you to understand the value (watch out for measurements per gram, ie, 250,000 SPU/g - this is an unethical labelling trick because per dose it is nothing). This enzyme is denatured in the stomach; therefore, it MUST have an enteric coating for optimal efficacy. If you do not want to take phthalates, look for something with a natural enteric coating (ie, algae and cellulose) and ask the company to produce the certificate of analysis (CofA) showing proof of enteric standard so you know the delivery works. It is worth noting that cellulose acetate phthalate is unique in that it can not stay in the body to disrupt things due to the cellulose bond.

Now, there is a difference between "enteric coated enzyme" and "enteric coated capsule". It is impossible that all of the enzyme will reach the small intestine for delivery when only using the enteric coated enzyme in a regular capsule as it still opens in the stomach and there is loss - you can not avoid this. It is FAR better than no enteric medium at all but still, there is up to 40% loss. The reason companies do this is cost. It is much cheaper to simply encapsulate a raw product over taking the extra step to enteric coat the entire capsule - manufacturing costs rise significantly with this step, but so does the efficacy. DRCaps do look promising to reduce the cost as they are getting close to slow enough dissolution so that enteric may not be needed in the future but as of yet are not USP certified as enteric level.

With regards to the IU, SPU, U measurements, companies claiming superiority because they use one over another are also engaged in unethical marketing spin. As I alluded to above, this is a commodity product, which means there are all kinds of bull**** ways companies try to say theirs is better. The biofermenters that supplements companies buy this from quantify the activity level in "U", as do all of the 3rd party labs that test the product for activity levels. To us, it makes sense to use the "U" but whatever, they are all the same. I know this because we have sent one of each product available on the market in U, IU, and SPU to an independent lab. All of them checked out the same in the CofA as their label claim (ie, the one that said 100,000 SPU tested at 100,000 U, etc). Eventually, Health Canada and the FDA will force a common measurement to stop the confusion and marketing spin... unless they axe the stuff altogether. It is already happening in Canada with HC only allowing licence for 20,000 U/dose to a maximum of 60,000/day. Within 2 years this will be in place (we have one year to stop manufacturing current products and stores have one year after that to sell inventory). Everything that has happened in the supplements market in Canada (60,000 products lost over 8 years) is now starting in the US... this will end up a very hot issue for Americans.
Best practices:
Take on empty stomach, 30 minutes before eating, or 2 hours after eating. Take more than once per day - try as soon as you wake and right before bed.
Start high and then reduce by half.
For acute conditions, safety is not an issue.
If taking as a preventative, 30,000 U/day is sufficient for most people.
Generally an 8 month period, depending on dosage and person, to clear out tissues (sinus, scar tissue, plaques, cysts, etc.)
Look for enteric coated capsules (not enteric coated enzyme)
Look for activity units per dose (not per gram)

Ask for CofA's showing enteric performance as well as enzyme activity level for the batch you are considering - any company worth a damn should provide these to you."

 

[Queequeg]

I understand that this is the product from the company the above insider works for:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FJIZVI4/
and it is not cheap.

 

[moss]

still working awesomely for me...NO MORE HEADACHES. I mean, this is AMAZING...

@ecstatichamster I am curious to know how things are going for you and are you still free from headaches?
What brand are you using and I am thinking of trying this as I am in the latter part of the 2nd stage of Adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) and have read serrapeptase may be helpful for scar tissue.
Thanks.

 

[moss]

@ecstatichamster somehow I read the first page and neglected to see the other two pages of this thread!!!
Great you have resolved your headaches. Having read more about serrapeptase have given it a miss.

 

[Queequeg]

Having read more about serrapeptase have given it a miss.

Hi @moss, I'm curious about what you found that turned you off on serrapeptase. It's done wonders for my back injury.
Have you seen this Serrapeptase and Frozen Shoulder - Reviews?

 

[Elias]

Greetings Everyone!
This is my first post at Raypeatforum.
This is truly a treasure trove of valuable ideas, suggestions, etc where we can share our [n=1] experiences.

With respect to proteolytic enzymes, I have been using Serrapeptase on and off for a few weeks. I have not noticed anything yet [probably due the low dosage].
I have been using nattokinase, however. I get nattokinase from food such as fermented natto.
The natto you buy at the Asian markets tastes really bad [smells and tastes like burnt plastic]. I therefore made the commitment to make my own natto.
What a remarkable taste homemade natto offers!
It has a fresh nutty aroma and flavor -- similar to vanilla!
It is also easy to digest -- I have really weak digestion, so that should say something about the power of fermented natto.
I do not eat it every day -- just once or twice per week. I freeze the remaining batch and thaw it before eating.
I also get my K2 from natto -- its loaded with it.

Anyone else with experience - good or bad with natto?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Welcome here @Elias

 

[lollipop]

@ecstatichamster thank you! and I'm glad you've found another way to cure your headaches.
@GAF the serrapeptase completely got rid of my eye-floaters too.

I just found this really helpful post from a guy who claims he works for one of the serrapeptase companies How Much Serrapeptase Is Safe To Take?
"I work for the company that innovated serrapeptase as a supplement in North America - we were the first. I am going to tell you a few very crucial things about this product. There is no known toxicity level for this enzyme after 45 years of worldwide use. There are also zero serious side effects on record. So, the upper limit is only capped by your bank account.
Companies like ours source this product from the biofermenting facilities that create it, of which there are very few. There are 3 large companies involved in this (with one holding the vast majority of the market), and a handful of smaller companies. There are no supplements companies that make their own serrapeptase - we all buy it from these companies. So, there is no such thing as "the real deal" as suntoucher suggests; however, there is a proper way to deliver it, a proper way to take it, and a proper way to understand labels.
When we buy this in bulk, there are a few options. You can buy "enteric coated enzyme", meaning it has an enteric medium mixed with the powdered enzyme, or you can buy "clean" product without any other ingredients - enzyme only. There are also different activity levels per gram available. The higher activity level at the lowest weight is the highest quality - this is why there must be a measurement of U, IU, or SPU per DOSE on the supplement label in order for you to understand the value (watch out for measurements per gram, ie, 250,000 SPU/g - this is an unethical labelling trick because per dose it is nothing). This enzyme is denatured in the stomach; therefore, it MUST have an enteric coating for optimal efficacy. If you do not want to take phthalates, look for something with a natural enteric coating (ie, algae and cellulose) and ask the company to produce the certificate of analysis (CofA) showing proof of enteric standard so you know the delivery works. It is worth noting that cellulose acetate phthalate is unique in that it can not stay in the body to disrupt things due to the cellulose bond.

Now, there is a difference between "enteric coated enzyme" and "enteric coated capsule". It is impossible that all of the enzyme will reach the small intestine for delivery when only using the enteric coated enzyme in a regular capsule as it still opens in the stomach and there is loss - you can not avoid this. It is FAR better than no enteric medium at all but still, there is up to 40% loss. The reason companies do this is cost. It is much cheaper to simply encapsulate a raw product over taking the extra step to enteric coat the entire capsule - manufacturing costs rise significantly with this step, but so does the efficacy. DRCaps do look promising to reduce the cost as they are getting close to slow enough dissolution so that enteric may not be needed in the future but as of yet are not USP certified as enteric level.

With regards to the IU, SPU, U measurements, companies claiming superiority because they use one over another are also engaged in unethical marketing spin. As I alluded to above, this is a commodity product, which means there are all kinds of bull**** ways companies try to say theirs is better. The biofermenters that supplements companies buy this from quantify the activity level in "U", as do all of the 3rd party labs that test the product for activity levels. To us, it makes sense to use the "U" but whatever, they are all the same. I know this because we have sent one of each product available on the market in U, IU, and SPU to an independent lab. All of them checked out the same in the CofA as their label claim (ie, the one that said 100,000 SPU tested at 100,000 U, etc). Eventually, Health Canada and the FDA will force a common measurement to stop the confusion and marketing spin... unless they axe the stuff altogether. It is already happening in Canada with HC only allowing licence for 20,000 U/dose to a maximum of 60,000/day. Within 2 years this will be in place (we have one year to stop manufacturing current products and stores have one year after that to sell inventory). Everything that has happened in the supplements market in Canada (60,000 products lost over 8 years) is now starting in the US... this will end up a very hot issue for Americans.
Best practices:
Take on empty stomach, 30 minutes before eating, or 2 hours after eating. Take more than once per day - try as soon as you wake and right before bed.
Start high and then reduce by half.
For acute conditions, safety is not an issue.
If taking as a preventative, 30,000 U/day is sufficient for most people.
Generally an 8 month period, depending on dosage and person, to clear out tissues (sinus, scar tissue, plaques, cysts, etc.)
Look for enteric coated capsules (not enteric coated enzyme)
Look for activity units per dose (not per gram)

Ask for CofA's showing enteric performance as well as enzyme activity level for the batch you are considering - any company worth a damn should provide these to you."

@Queequeg - GREAT info!! Thank you for posting...

Also, nice to hear about your successes! Great news. I also have seen a great benefit in general overall reduced inflammation. I have been using the product from Enzymedica Serragold.

 

[lollipop]

Welcome here @Elias

+1

 

[Queequeg]

@Queequeg - GREAT info!! Thank you for posting...

Also, nice to hear about your successes! Great news. I also have seen a great benefit in general overall reduced inflammation. I have been using the product from Enzymedica Serragold.

Your welcome:) Great to hear about your successes as well!!
I was taking Dr Best but think I am going to try the enerex one and see if there is a difference.

 

[moss]

Hi @moss, I'm curious about what you found that turned you off on serrapeptase. It's done wonders for my back injury.
Have you seen this Serrapeptase and Frozen Shoulder - Reviews?

Hi Queequeg

I read a brief article (fleetingly) about a Japanese Pharmaceutical Co recalling their Serrapeptase product in 2011. Presumably, because it was found to be a bit too beneficial?? I had heard about tummy upsets and read here as well and more to the point I am not a big supplement user and wary of most stuff around.

The info you posted up thread is helpful (as are the other contributions) and thank you for the Serrapeptase frozen shoulder reviews and reading your good results has prompted me to investigate a little further.

Grilling companies about products is something I do anyway and appreciate the heads up wrt enteric coating/dose per caps and CoA. I have been looking into sourcing products and waiting for more information to come through from a couple of companies.

Now I have become impatient and ordered a bottle in the interim as one of the companies product is currently out of stock til the end of the month.
This brand is a higher dose at 250,000 IU per capsule. I am going to start with 2 x 3 day away from food (have a pretty robust gut). From what I understand so far, it is best to go with a higher dose initially (this goes against what I would normally do) for a couple of weeks or so, with the view of reducing to a maintenance dose for a good while.

One woman I spoke to managed to avoid a lumbar fusion (she wasn't go have surgery anyway) and is now mobile and free of pain. She has been taking Serrapeptase for a good while now and plans to continue. I find that pretty impressive.
And watch out as some products contain Gellan gum and this may contribute to gastric upsets for some?

This ebook was passed onto me from one of my enquiries and wanted to share.
In due course I will post my findings with the hope of some improvement with shoulder range of movement and inflammation.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have a robust gut too but I couldn't handle it. Other proteolytic enzymes were okay and I think probably just as beneficial.

 

[moss]

I have a robust gut too but I couldn't handle it. Other proteolytic enzymes were okay and I think probably just as beneficial.

My gut is more robust than yours!
Yeah who knows, I might blow my brains out too.

Edit: Agree other proteolytic enzymes are beneficial as well.

 

[lollipop]

Hi Queequeg

I read a brief article (fleetingly) about a Japanese Pharmaceutical Co recalling their Serrapeptase product in 2011. Presumably, because it was found to be a bit too beneficial?? I had heard about tummy upsets and read here as well and more to the point I am not a big supplement user and wary of most stuff around.

The info you posted up thread is helpful (as are the other contributions) and thank you for the Serrapeptase frozen shoulder reviews and reading your good results has prompted me to investigate a little further.

Grilling companies about products is something I do anyway and appreciate the heads up wrt enteric coating/dose per caps and CoA. I have been looking into sourcing products and waiting for more information to come through from a couple of companies.

Now I have become impatient and ordered a bottle in the interim as one of the companies product is currently out of stock til the end of the month.
This brand is a higher dose at 250,000 IU per capsule. I am going to start with 2 x 3 day away from food (have a pretty robust gut). From what I understand so far, it is best to go with a higher dose initially (this goes against what I would normally do) for a couple of weeks or so, with the view of reducing to a maintenance dose for a good while.

One woman I spoke to managed to avoid a lumbar fusion (she wasn't go have surgery anyway) and is now mobile and free of pain. She has been taking Serrapeptase for a good while now and plans to continue. I find that pretty impressive.
And watch out as some products contain Gellan gum and this may contribute to gastric upsets for some?

This ebook was passed onto me from one of my enquiries and wanted to share.
In due course I will post my findings with the hope of some improvement with shoulder range of movement and inflammation.

@moss thank you for posting the ebook.

 

[lollipop]

I do think it is highly individual @ecstatichamster and @moss. I haven't had the best of guts in the last year and I take daily with NO problems with my gut. Wondering if it is because I also take other proteolytic enzymes?

 

[Queequeg]

Hi Queequeg

I read a brief article (fleetingly) about a Japanese Pharmaceutical Co recalling their Serrapeptase product in 2011. Presumably, because it was found to be a bit too beneficial?? I had heard about tummy upsets and read here as well and more to the point I am not a big supplement user and wary of most stuff around.

The info you posted up thread is helpful (as are the other contributions) and thank you for the Serrapeptase frozen shoulder reviews and reading your good results has prompted me to investigate a little further.

Grilling companies about products is something I do anyway and appreciate the heads up wrt enteric coating/dose per caps and CoA. I have been looking into sourcing products and waiting for more information to come through from a couple of companies.

Now I have become impatient and ordered a bottle in the interim as one of the companies product is currently out of stock til the end of the month.
This brand is a higher dose at 250,000 IU per capsule. I am going to start with 2 x 3 day away from food (have a pretty robust gut). From what I understand so far, it is best to go with a higher dose initially (this goes against what I would normally do) for a couple of weeks or so, with the view of reducing to a maintenance dose for a good while.

One woman I spoke to managed to avoid a lumbar fusion (she wasn't go have surgery anyway) and is now mobile and free of pain. She has been taking Serrapeptase for a good while now and plans to continue. I find that pretty impressive.
And watch out as some products contain Gellan gum and this may contribute to gastric upsets for some?

This ebook was passed onto me from one of my enquiries and wanted to share.
In due course I will post my findings with the hope of some improvement with shoulder range of movement and inflammation.

I am glad you decided to take another look at serrapeptase. Let us know how the shoulder pain works out. With that dosing plan I have no doubt you will see results fairly quickly.:)

Also thank you for “grilling the companies” and digging up such good info. The pdf article is amazing; over 300 pages of serrapeptase cures.

Regarding the Japanese company pulling its product, sad but not surprising at all. The really effective medicines are never good for industry profits. It makes you wonder what other gems they are hiding from us.

 

[moss]

@moss thank you for posting the ebook.

No worries

I do think it is highly individual @ecstatichamster and @moss. I haven't had the best of guts in the last year and I take daily with NO problems with my gut. Wondering if it is because I also take other proteolytic enzymes?

Good to know and I take digestive enzymes from time to time so I may play around with that more whilst taking Serrapeptase.

I am glad you decided to take another look at serrapeptase. Let us know how the shoulder pain works out. With that dosing plan I have no doubt you will see results fairly quickly.:)

Also thank you for “grilling the companies” and digging up such good info. The pdf article is amazing; over 300 pages of serrapeptase cures.

Regarding the Japanese company pulling its product, sad but not surprising at all. The really effective medicines are never good for industry profits. It makes you wonder what other gems they are hiding from us.

 

[Ania]

Here is a link to dr. William Wong's lecture on proteolityc enzymes with special emphasis on serrapeptase.
I found it very helpful.