Serotonin- How Do You Know?

[teds]

Hello all,

I'm curious about the qualitative process that people have around their serotonin levels. I often read people on this thread mentioning that 'xyz' increases or decreases their serotonin or they get a serotonin low/high etc. What is the experience of serotonin to you and how can you qualify it within yourself? I've no idea really how to tell if I'm experiencing problems with this.. thanks everyone! :)

 

[Travis]

I'm trying to pinpoint myself what high serotonin feels like exactly. I have some ideas, but I think someone here knows more what it feels like. I have yet to take branched-chain amino acids (or small competing amino acids, if you're Fernstrom), so I haven't experience what it's like to quickly drain serotonin production. All of the drugs could have other effects besides the one they lay claim to, so I think the most reliable way to gauge the effects of serotonin itself is through either taking branched-chain amino acids to lower it or L-tryptophan to raise it.

Fernstrom showed as far back as the 70s that brain serotonin synthesis is a direct function of the ratio of serum tryptophan levels over their competing amino acids.

 

[paymanz]

And I believe brain serotonin and peripheral serotonin are two different subjects.

And apparently isolated from each other?! As serotonin can't pass the blood brain barrier.

 

[Frankdee20]

And I believe brain serotonin and peripheral serotonin are two different subjects.

And apparently isolated from each other?! As serotonin can't pass the blood brain barrier.

This is an important differentiation that often isn’t accounted for when laymen new to the site read about serotonin. The only standard that allows me to know what really high serotonin is, both peripheral and neurological, was my use of 5htp years ago. It’s not a good feeling in your gut, tension everywhere, rumination, constantly anxious, hopeless, devoid of enthusiasm, no optimism, fatalistic outlook, food sensitivities, yuk.

 

[Peata]

It’s not a good feeling in your gut, tension everywhere, rumination, constantly anxious, hopeless, devoid of enthusiasm, no optimism, fatalistic outlook, food sensitivities, yuk.

Yes, same here.

I know there's another state of being (without serotonin dominating symptoms above) because using cyproheptadine has shown me it's possible to live without all that negativity. I keep trying to find a different way to get there, however, because of the increase in appetite/weight gain from cypro starts to become unacceptable each time.

 

[jb116]

Yes, same here.

I know there's another state of being (without serotonin dominating symptoms above) because using cyproheptadine has shown me it's possible to live without all that negativity. I keep trying to find a different way to get there, however, because of the increase in appetite/weight gain from cypro starts to become unacceptable each time.

Peata how much do you take and how do you take it?

 

[Frankdee20]

Yes, same here.

I know there's another state of being (without serotonin dominating symptoms above) because using cyproheptadine has shown me it's possible to live without all that negativity. I keep trying to find a different way to get there, however, because of the increase in appetite/weight gain from cypro starts to become unacceptable each time.

Never tried that medicine, but I think not all 5ht receptors are bad. Overall, serotonin is likely more negative than positive, so antagonizing certain receptors yields good feelings.

 

[Peata]

Peata how much do you take and how do you take it?

I've taken it all different ways over the years, so it's complicated to explain how I used it. Last time, I started with 1 mg. and worked up to 4 mg, taken in the evening. Then I moved up to 8 mg. by taking one 4 mg pill 2 x day. I decided that was more than enough, so I went back own to 2 mg. for a bit and then tapered off. I think the recommended amount on the forum is no more than 4 mg per day.

Also, if you've never taken it, even 1 mg. may be too much to start with. On the higher amounts, I still have the daytime grogginess that got kind of tiresome. I noticed that my brain seemed to be functioning better, despite the grogginess. I mean, the brain fog was gone to where I could focus on projects without my thoughts scattering and becoming unmanageable.

I'm now using famotidine (Pepcid) to see if it has similar effects, but the experiment is kind of unreliable because I'm taking a lot of Benadryl through the day now too.

 

[jb116]

I've taken it all different ways over the years, so it's complicated to explain how I used it. Last time, I started with 1 mg. and worked up to 4 mg, taken in the evening. Then I moved up to 8 mg. by taking one 4 mg pill 2 x day. I decided that was more than enough, so I went back own to 2 mg. for a bit and then tapered off. I think the recommended amount on the forum is no more than 4 mg per day.

Also, if you've never taken it, even 1 mg. may be too much to start with. On the higher amounts, I still have the daytime grogginess that got kind of tiresome. I noticed that my brain seemed to be functioning better, despite the grogginess. I mean, the brain fog was gone to where I could focus on projects without my thoughts scattering and becoming unmanageable.

I'm now using famotidine (Pepcid) to see if it has similar effects, but the experiment is kind of unreliable because I'm taking a lot of Benadryl through the day now too.

I see, thanks. I do have some experience with cypro. Have you ever tried taking 0.5mg every time, throughout the day? May be even totaling a bit less for the entire day.

 

[Peata]

I see, thanks. I do have some experience with cypro. Have you ever tried taking 0.5mg every time, throughout the day? May be even totaling a bit less for the entire day.

Yeah, in the past I've tried all amounts and times of day. I have taken 1/2 - 1 mg. throughout day. I read taking it in evening is best, but I like taking a little during the day too, though it might be just a psych thing that in my mind I'm "boosting" the dose.

It all ends up working the same for me. Within 1 week - 10 days, the full effect kicks in and I feel better (calmer).

 

[jb116]

Yeah, in the past I've tried all amounts and times of day. I have taken 1/2 - 1 mg. throughout day. I read taking it in evening is best, but I like taking a little during the day too, though it might be just a psych thing that in my mind I'm "boosting" the dose.

It all ends up working the same for me. Within 1 week - 10 days, the full effect kicks in and I feel better (calmer).

Nice, I too find that if one is to take it, a little during the day and then some in the evening is a better way to go.

 

[Sucrates]

Serotonin is extremely complex because of all the different receptors, and the same receptor in a different tissue can have an opposing effect. Levels of prostaglandins, substance P, or bradykinin can completely change tissue response to serotonin and things like pain sensation.

I think serotonin doesn't enter the brain, though some may leave. Cytokines peripherally can affect brain serotonin as well as peripheral serotonin.

Rumination, anxiety, lethargy and depression are good signs of a serotonin problem, especially with any gastrointestinal complaint. Any fibrotic condition might be associated.

Symptoms associated with high estrogen, nitric oxide and histamine probably correlate with high serotonin.

 

[Travis]

And apparently isolated from each other?! As serotonin can't pass the blood brain barrier.

You're right, it is bound to platelets.

But tryptophan is bound to serum albumin, and crosses the blood–brain barrier freely. When tryptophan enters the brain, it is converted to serotonin. The enzyme that is responsible for this is not saturated—it never slows down. The tryptophan entering the brain is thought, by most, to be directly proportional to serotonin synthesis.

And the amount of tryptophan entering the brain has been experimentally found to be directly proportional to its serum concentration divided by that of the sum of it's competing neutral amino acids—the Fernstrom ratio: Trp(brain) = Try/Σ(Val, Tyr, Leu, Ile, Phe)

And since Trp(brain) ≈ Ser(brain), we have Ser(brain) ≈ Trp/Σ(Val, Tyr, Leu, Ile, Phe).