Seriously Confused About CO2 After Reading Gbolduev's Thread

Xisca

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... shell from tremendous amount of stress forcing your body to numb itself from stress.
Calcium can numb the nervous system to protect the person from outside stress. So as the result of so much calcium int he soft tissue the person slows down and usually results in adrenal fatigue or adrenal exhaustion and appears to be numb.
Very interresting to view it like this! Interesting to see the different use of words! This shell protecting from stress is called freeze response at ANS level. It does come from a tremendous amount of stress, and the body stops this by binding the sympathetic activation. I like to see it said at mineral level too!

I do have this, and too much calcium with stiff muscles and tendons. And once I had a bronchitis, I wanted to take copper, as it had worked for me before... It was copper gluconate drops: impossible to stand the taste, so I knew I was better off.

And I have a low breathing rate, shallow, with ribs that do not move fully unless very active. Thus high co2 for sure!
 

fradon

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Very interresting to view it like this! Interesting to see the different use of words! This shell protecting from stress is called freeze response at ANS level. It does come from a tremendous amount of stress, and the body stops this by binding the sympathetic activation. I like to see it said at mineral level too!

I do have this, and too much calcium with stiff muscles and tendons. And once I had a bronchitis, I wanted to take copper, as it had worked for me before... It was copper gluconate drops: impossible to stand the taste, so I knew I was better off.

And I have a low breathing rate, shallow, with ribs that do not move fully unless very active. Thus high co2 for sure!

VITAMIN C may help you as it will dissolve some of the calcium.
 

Xisca

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I saw this and was thinking that my vit C is C-salt, so it has potassium, calcium and Mg and zinc! 7% calcium. 76% vitamine c
I am quite high in fruits and veggies, and will see to get other C.
I have cut back on dairies and will also cut back on liver. I will see if kidney and heart have less copper...
As I remember I beneficiated from zinc last year, it confirms...

Other ways to safely remove more copper, especially from the liver?
 

fradon

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I saw this and was thinking that my vit C is C-salt, so it has potassium, calcium and Mg and zinc! 7% calcium. 76% vitamine c
I am quite high in fruits and veggies, and will see to get other C.
I have cut back on dairies and will also cut back on liver. I will see if kidney and heart have less copper...
As I remember I beneficiated from zinc last year, it confirms...

Other ways to safely remove more copper, especially from the liver?

you can not remove copper without your adrenals as they are involved in something called methlylation and they are involved in removing heavy metals. eating kidneys have more copper. liver is good food for the adrenals as it has zinc, b6 b12 and folate in it. you can do about 500mg of C don't do too much more than that. All foods have some copper but in yoru gut copper and zinc compete so eating foods higher in zinc than copper is better...beans are the oppostie they have higher copper than zinc. Beef, has helped me a lot in my recovery.
 

Xisca

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Last year I beneficiated a lot from methylcobalamine, and my organic acids this spring showed methylation was fine. Neurotranmitors not that good, but it was about dopamine and serotonine turnover, not adrenaline.
I still take some zinc from time to time but do not want to overdo it.
Strange enough, when I do not need something anymore, I just forget to take it!
I have organic beef tomorrow!
 

fradon

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Last year I beneficiated a lot from methylcobalamine,

yes that is a type of b12 that is easily used by the body but i'm talking about the body process of methylation...it is the root of all your energy to some degree. it is also responsible for heavy metal detoxing.
 

Xisca

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"Methylation Cofactor Markers No Abnormality Found" low levels of Methylmalonate and Formiminoglutamate
I don't know if it is enough to say that the process of methylation is correctly happening!

I take some methylfolate, as I did not have it last year. and as I do not eat lentils or beans really...
 

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Yes I'd say my panic episodes were triggered by the fear of suffocation. Also I almost drowned as a kid. I don't think I had to be resuscitated but I did sink to the bottom of a pool. I can only imagine how that screwed up my nervous system. I didn't have panic though until 2 yrs of chronic unrelenting stress.

Ascorbic acid has really helped me. My calcium was high probably to protect me from the unrelenting stress. But I also probably needed the calcium as I was tandem breastfeeding. Low on everything I'm sure. Now I am rebuilding. And for sure that won't include fasting for my particular context.
 

Xisca

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Also I almost drowned as a kid. I don't think I had to be resuscitated but I did sink to the bottom of a pool. I can only imagine how that screwed up my nervous system. I didn't have panic though until 2 yrs of chronic unrelenting stress.
That's it, not everybody with high co2 will have panick attacks when co2 gets just very little down. There has to be this shell/freeze pattern.
Did you fully get the point that Peter Levine says?
Yes, the freeze protects us so well that we can spend a life time without noticing it! But we will be weaker whenever we live a stresful situation. And nobody can connect the dangerous/fearful past events as a cause to our present state, as the mere physiological strategy of the body aims at disconnecting us from this physiological/cellular memory. It is good, it is the choice of the body to protect us. But it cannot be long term, or else we can crash.

As a normal way of living, we should alternate between S and PS, slow and fast, breathing a lot and then much less. No problem to breathe less and slow at rest, when in a few hours we will balance ourselves by some activity! The problem comes when we move away from the alternate pattern.

I am sure the hair test and the typing can discover this. Nobody is stuck at the same moment in the defense sequence. Hyper/fast will be stuck in the sympathetic activation phase, and Hypo/slow are stuck in the parasympathetic activation. BTW, our type will be the sum of our life long history. Maybe sometimes there is a particular event that weights more in the balance, but I guess that for a lot of people there is just a sum up of many little things. If we knew how to take the time to discharge these activations day by day as animals do, we would save us from many health issues.

The second possibility, PS block, is the worse when there is an underlying sympathetic activation. @gbolduev The part that confuses me is that I do not know if there are some cases with a lot of parasympathetic activation with very little sympathetic activation underneath.
 

Xisca

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I need to detail more clearly this:
"The second possibility, PS block, is the worse when there is an underlying sympathetic activation. @gbolduev The part that confuses me is that I do not know if there are some cases with a lot of parasympathetic activation with very little sympathetic activation underneath."

When helping people with a lot of PS activation, the problem is ALWAYS that there is a lot of S activation underneath. It is therefore difficult for the person to let go the PS, because the body knows that a volcano can burst, and it does not want it. In the SE technique, we uncover the PS lid very slowly, to solve a little part of the S activation problem. It means avoiding cartharsis.

I can relate this very well to the work with minerals to change the body patterns, only slowly and in a way the body can hold the process without crashing. But @gbolduev seem to imply in the different subtypes, that it is possible to have a strong PS activation, and that we will not find any big volcano underneath.... As if it has been too long time and the volcano is dead? Then adrenal fatigue exists?

To be sure... I think that levels of adrenaline relate to the P activation, and serotonine levels relate to PS activation.
In a slow oxidizer, this correspond to what I know: serotonine (=PS) is higher than adrenaline (S)
My perinatal trauma puts me in the PS dominant case: therefore my hair test should come back indicating serotonine > adrenaline.

And my breathing / hearth rate pattern is obviously matching this:
- slow hearth beats, 60 as a child, and 45 when long distance runner, and still less than 60 now that I am just active.
- low blood pressure.
- abdominal but shallow breathing, as my ribs are blocked.
- Buteyko breathing sounds very atractive, and helps only in specific situations, not as a daily basis.
 

Xisca

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But we will be weaker whenever we live a stressful situation.
I think hormone resistances match the pattern of freeze response at the ANS level.
High stress hormones levels are sympathetic activations. When it gets too high, the body shuts down the process by instauring the hormone resistance. This might be equivalent to the security process called feeze response when we talk at behaviour level.

Not sure! This still a question! ¿Is the freeze/shelling response a hormone resistant state, or the activation of the balancing hormone? (like cortisol / insuline , adrenaline / norarenaline...)
Has somebody a clue about it? @gbolduev is it something you know about? Do you know the chemistry only, or the nervous system too?

So, speaking of weakness and not being able to respond to a situation (in life or in our body chemistry) @gbolduev told us about the cortisol resistance when we eat too much sugar too often. We can live fine as long as we have our regular supply and no variation of stress. BUT we are less resilient, because when we need to make a bigger effort with less supply, we have no reserve. At the same time we have less cortisol and are more resistant to it. And we can even lack reserve to the point of not making the full night asleep!
 

griesburner

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i found the theorys about Co2 very interesting and the different point of views.

for example thats a big problem for me understanding peats ideas on Co2:
if more Co2 is better in any way, then it would be wise to breath as little as possible like buteyko said.
but i cant imagine thats very natural and in cases like COPD where breathing is impaired, health is not good.
or the point with the oxygen measurement with an oxymeter. i read somewhere that with bag breathing the oxygen saturation gets lower, and i cant imagine that could be a healthy thing. And if its true that in a hospital the older unhealthy people have lower oxygen measurements compared to younger healthy ones who got high oxygen saturation. Maybe i understand that all wrong but then it would be nice if anyone could explain how more Co2 and lower oxygen saturation (most seen in older unhealthy people) could be a sign of health?

On the other hand, when i assume Gbolduev's view on this:
if the mayority are slow oxidizer, then they reatain too much Co2 and thats a problem. thats logical to me.
To help getting rid of too much Co2 - exercise, sometimes hyperventilating?
But wouldnt it be better then to constantly breathing through your mouth also to better and faster get rid of the accumulated Co2?
or to force yourself to breath very intense? or is it still wise to keep nosebreathing?
 

Xisca

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Ok, that's a lot, but I try...
To help getting rid of too much Co2 - exercise, sometimes hyperventilating?
Exercise and some holotropic respiration.
Then you must adapt to reality and everyday case. There is your general case and then special occasions. Nobody breathes the same all the time.
constantly breathing through your mouth
No because there are other reasons, you need saliva for your teeth.
or is it still wise to keep nosebreathing?
yes.
force yourself to breath very intense
Forcing is rarely wise out of extreme situations. Your body will react and refuse the agression. Do not forget that kidneys need a few days to change the bicarbonate that balances the co2.
 

Xisca

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with bag breathing the oxygen saturation gets lower, and i cant imagine that could be a healthy thing.
Yes it is in some cases! Some people hyperventilate to the point of having a panick attack for example. They need to increase temporarily their co2.
explain how more Co2 and lower oxygen saturation (most seen in older unhealthy people) could be a sign of health?
Because it is relative ! According to your initial state, either you are unbalanced on one side or the other, and your need opposite things according to how you need to recover your balance...
It seems that some people have an excess oxygen from hyperventilating, like in asthma, typically getting better with buteyko breating.
 

Xisca

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if more Co2 is better in any way, then it would be wise to breath as little as possible like buteyko said.
Some people get good effects like increase heart beats and increased temps. So, either they were hyperventilating before, and had some blood alkalinity, or they have those results because buteyko stresses them and so they have more adrenaline!!!!
Buteyko says to not get stressed during practise, but the exercises are very difficult to do without creating a stress reaction like an increased heart beats. There is a difference between what is planned by the creator of a method and the way it is applyed.

More co2 is better only if you have not enough!
 

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Some people get good effects like increase heart beats and increased temps. So, either they were hyperventilating before, and had some blood alkalinity, or they have those results because buteyko stresses them and so they have more adrenaline!!!!
Buteyko says to not get stressed during practise, but the exercises are very difficult to do without creating a stress reaction like an increased heart beats. There is a difference between what is planned by the creator of a method and the way it is applyed.

More co2 is better only if you have not enough!

This implies that there are a lot of people, who have enough or too much CO2, and who would benefit from decreasing their CO2 levels. There are people with so called hypercapnia, but I have never seen any evidence that the CO2 in itself is the cause of any of the problems associated with it. I think it's a protective mechanism. For example, hypoventilating at night is probably a normal defense mechanism of the body to maintain adequate oxygen supply of the cells.
By the way, it's not difficult at all to not get stressed when doing Butyeko exercises. Quite the opposite, the increased CO2 helps you too relax, and you get pleasantly warm hands and feet after a few minutes. Only way to get a stress reaction would be if your interpretation of Buteyko is to hold your breath until you almost faint and then start hyperventilating
 
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This implies that there are a lot of people, who have enough or too much CO2, and who would benefit from decreasing their CO2 levels. There are people with so called hypercapnia, but I have never seen any evidence that the CO2 in itself is the cause of any of the problems associated with it. I think it's a protective mechanism. For example, hypoventilating at night is probably a normal defense mechanism of the body to maintain adequate oxygen supply of the cells.
By the way, it's not difficult at all to not get stressed when doing Butyeko exercises. Quite the opposite, the increased CO2 helps you too relax, and you get pleasantly warm hands and feet after a few minutes. Only way to get a stress reaction would be if your interpretation of Buteyko is to hold your breath until you almost faint and then start hyperventilating

yes precisely.

Everyone needs higher CO2 levels.

It's complex though. Hypoxia is low oxygen but NOT high CO2.

One thing that got me onto Peat was he understands CO2. Most all other experts do not.
 

Xisca

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By the way, it's not difficult at all to not get stressed when doing Butyeko exercises. Quite the opposite, the increased CO2 helps you to relax, and you get pleasantly warm hands and feet after a few minutes.
Increased co2 induces a more parasympathetic state, so yes it is beneficial when you want to relax, which is different than all the time.
 

Kartoffel

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yes precisely.

Everyone needs higher CO2 levels.

It's complex though. Hypoxia is low oxygen but NOT high CO2.

One thing that got me onto Peat was he understands CO2. Most all other experts do not.

Pretty much. One of the many false things that Gbol claimed was that increasing CO2 will increase your breathing rate and make you hyperventilate. Exactly the opposite is true. Even if you put people in a closed chamber with 1.5% Co2, their breathing rate will go down significantly.
 

Kartoffel

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Increased co2 induces a more parasympathetic state, so yes it is beneficial when you want to relax, which is different than all the time.

Would you mind explaining to me what this means? I have no idea what you mean when you say that CO2 induces a parasympathetic state.
 

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