Seretonin Not That Bad?

[Rickyman]

Is it possible to be too low seretonin? I mean if antidepressants help some ppl then could it be that those ppl were too low on Seretonin.

How could one even know if they are too low. I'm sure we need it in a good balance. So confused

 

[Hans]

SSRI drugs do a lot more than just increase serotonin. For example some of them also increase allopregnanolone and BDNF, antagonize certain serotonin receptors, antagonize the adrenergic system, etc.
Supplementing tryptophan doesn't mean much as 95% of tryptophan is used in the kynurenine pathway. Of that remaining 5%, 95% goes for peripheral serotonin and only 5% of the 5% is used for brain serotonin.
That's the problem with tryptophan depletion studies, it doesn't just lower brain serotonin, but also NAD levels amongst other things.
However, tryptophan depleted animal are remarkable normal according to research...calm, non aggressive, etc.

 

[Rickyman]

SSRI drugs do a lot more than just increase serotonin. For example some of them also increase allopregnanolone and BDNF, antagonize certain serotonin receptors, antagonize the adrenergic system, etc.
Supplementing tryptophan doesn't mean much as 95% of tryptophan is used in the kynurenine pathway. Of that remaining 5%, 95% goes for peripheral serotonin and only 5% of the 5% is used for brain serotonin.
That's the problem with tryptophan depletion studies, it doesn't just lower brain serotonin, but also NAD levels amongst other things.
However, tryptophan depleted animal are remarkable normal according to research...calm, non aggressive, etc.

Thanks for the input. Very interesting.

So here I thought that if I increased my red meat consumption it would increase my seretonin levels. (Because of tryptophan) apparently there is more to it than I thought

Ran across this
Low Serum Allopregnanolone Is Associated with Symptoms of Depression in Late Pregnancy

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAHegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw10SP6bdMDxevt1DluiyGaP

I'm a male but I thought it was interesting that you brought up allopreg, now I need to research how to raise Allopregnanolone

Any ideas on how to so and also which antidepressants help with this? Thanks anyone who can give feedback

 

[Hans]

Thanks for the input. Very interesting.

So here I thought that if I increased my red meat consumption it would increase my seretonin levels. (Because of tryptophan) apparently there is more to it than I thought

Ran across this
Low Serum Allopregnanolone Is Associated with Symptoms of Depression in Late Pregnancy

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAHegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw10SP6bdMDxevt1DluiyGaP

I'm a male but I thought it was interesting that you brought up allopreg, now I need to research how to raise Allopregnanolone

Any ideas on how to so and also which antidepressants help with this? Thanks anyone who can give feedback

I would definitely not recommend the standard anti-depressants to increase allopregnanolone haha. But 5alpha-DHP (sold by Idealabs) is the precursor to allopregnanolone. If nothing is wrong with your 5-AR enzymes, then high doses pregnenolone and small to moderate doses progesterone can also increase it.

Red meat, especially ground beef, has a low Fernstrom ratio and would most likely increase serotonin the least.

 

[Rickyman]

I would definitely not recommend the standard anti-depressants to increase allopregnanolone haha. But 5alpha-DHP (sold by Idealabs) is the precursor to allopregnanolone. If nothing is wrong with your 5-AR enzymes, then high doses pregnenolone and small to moderate doses progesterone can also increase it.

Red meat, especially ground beef, has a low Fernstrom ratio and would most likely increase serotonin the least.

Interesting, I had no clue about that product in ILabs

I might give that a shot, last time I tried 50mg pregnen I felt so weird ... Spaced out it was scary idk how to describe it exactly but I'm scared of trying a higher dose than that. I do ok with 10-15mg in a single dose but I'm not even sure it's doing anything.

I'm already low in testosterone so I don't really want to take Progeste for fear of it turning into estrogen.

Currently looking for a doc that can prescribe the oral non ester T that haidut wrote about.

Maybe that's what I'd causing my ailments and nothing to do with low seretonin.

I'm a mess man.... Thanks for the feedback back greatly appreciated.

 

[Hans]

I might give that a shot, last time I tried 50mg pregnen I felt so weird ... Spaced out it was scary idk how to describe it exactly but I'm scared of trying a higher dose than that. I do ok with 10-15mg in a single dose but I'm not even sure it's doing anything.

Yeah pregnenolone do space certain people out, but I think this is unique to pregnenolone and not necessary progesterone as well or even 5alpha DHP.

I'm already low in testosterone so I don't really want to take Progeste for fear of it turning into estrogen.

Luckily progesterone can't aromatase and it's actually an estrogen antagonist.

Currently looking for a doc that can prescribe the oral non ester T that haidut wrote about.

If you're prone to aromatization I'd definitely use the T with and AI. Safer ones are Aromasin, androsterone, vitamin E, D, K2, etc.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

If you're prone to aromatization I'd definitely use the T with and AI. Safer ones are Aromasin, androsterone, vitamin E, D, K2, etc.

is androsterone an efficient aromatase inhibitor? In comparison to something like exemestane?

 

[gaze]

also keep in mind that it has to do with the person. for example, someone who went through childhood trauma, stress, stunted growth etc will be turning over tryptophan to brain serotonin at a very high rate not only in childhood but throughout adult hood. for someone who grew up in a healthy family environment, was well nourished, is not neurotic etc, they can eat muscle meats and be perfectly fine

 

[Hans]

is androsterone an efficient aromatase inhibitor? In comparison to something like exemestane?

No in vivo studies as far as I know, but according to in vitro studies, yes. Some people do report achy joints from doses below 10mg showing that it is effective.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

No in vivo studies as far as I know, but according to in vitro studies, yes. Some people do report achy joints from doses below 10mg showing that it is effective.

wow, interesting.
I was taking upwards of 50mg daily of androsterone, didn't notice any low estradiol symptoms, rather my libido was sky high and my refractory period was next to nothing, maybe I have a proclivity for high aromatase activity? I've never had gynecomastia or extreme water retention, which is contrary to low estradiol symptoms.

 

[Hans]

wow, interesting.
I was taking upwards of 50mg daily of androsterone, didn't notice any low estradiol symptoms, rather my libido was sky high and my refractory period was next to nothing, maybe I have a proclivity for high aromatase activity? I've never had gynecomastia or extreme water retention, which is contrary to low estradiol symptoms.

Androsterone from Idealabs? I also didn't get achy joints when I used it by my dose was like 4mg daily. It did make me feel more androgenic though, so I might experiment with higher doses combined with DHEA and vitamin K2.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

Androsterone from Idealabs? I also didn't get achy joints when I used it by my dose was like 4mg daily. It did make me feel more androgenic though, so I might experiment with higher doses combined with DHEA and vitamin K2.

yes and no, I bought my own androsterone powder for a reputable source and made a life time's supply with DMSO and isopropyl alcohol, I used IdealLabs before that as well. Interesting you bring up k2, I was megadosing it upwards of 100mg daily (again from a raw powder company) and my libido was through the roof, no aching joints, no insomnia, guess I'm just a slave to my aromatase enzyme, lol.

 

[Hans]

yes and no, I bought my own androsterone powder for a reputable source and made a life time's supply with DMSO and isopropyl alcohol, I used IdealLabs before that as well. Interesting you bring up k2, I was megadosing it upwards of 100mg daily (again from a raw powder company) and my libido was through the roof, no aching joints, no insomnia, guess I'm just a slave to my aromatase enzyme, lol.

Like I mentioned not everyone gets sore joints from an AI. And it's interesting since K2 is also an aromatase inhibitor. I wonder where your estrogen levels were at when you took that high dose andro and K2.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

Like I mentioned not everyone gets sore joints from an AI. And it's interesting since K2 is also an aromatase inhibitor. I wonder where your estrogen levels were at when you took that high dose andro and K2.

yeah, that's true, but a universal symptom of lower estradiol is libido issues, and mine was higher than before. Although I will note, with K2 my libido wasn't as strong as when I wasn't taking anything, whereas when I was on androsterone it was stronger than ever, I'd assume because androsterone upregulates 5ar whilst also reversibly metabolizing into dihydrotestosterone, therefore a surplus of DHT is generated, meaning more 3β-Androstanediol to agonize the estrogen receptor beta? possibly compensating for the inhibition of estradiol synthesis?

you'd think at 50mg+ it would potently inhibit aromatase, but for me I had zero low estradiol symptoms, that's what leads me to believe that I have a high proclivity for aromatase activity.

 

[Andman]

50mg andro would put me in a wheelchair probably haha. i cant do much more than 1-2mg/week

are we talking oral or transdermal application?

 

[Rickyman]

50mg andro would put me in a wheelchair probably haha. i cant do much more than 1-2mg/week

are we talking oral or transdermal application?

Isn't Androsterone for topical use? It smells very strong.

 

[Explorer]

also keep in mind that it has to do with the person. for example, someone who went through childhood trauma, stress, stunted growth etc will be turning over tryptophan to brain serotonin at a very high rate not only in childhood but throughout adult hood. for someone who grew up in a healthy family environment, was well nourished, is not neurotic etc, they can eat muscle meats and be perfectly fine

Is there any way to lower this increased Serotonin turnover due to past traumas/stressors permanently?

 

[Perry Staltic]

No, serotonin is not bad. You'd die without it. Too little or too much is bad. Homeostasis is good. Leave it alone and let the body do it's thing.