That is not a very good analogy.If you love or hate someone you don't have to physically isolate and physically see that feeling to know that it exists
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
That is not a very good analogy.If you love or hate someone you don't have to physically isolate and physically see that feeling to know that it exists
That is not a very good analogy.
I haven't listened to this episode yet but I think he talked positively about them in the previous episodes too (one or two months ago). IIRC he said that ivermectin is OK to be used as treatment, but not as preventative because in a small number of people it can cause brain damage. But then went on to reaffirm that there are safer substances like aspirin and vitamin D.Is it just me, or is this the first time Ray had said something positive about HCQ and Ivermectin? He says they are anti-inflammatory. He's not giving them his blessing outright I don't think, but there seems to be a shift.
I read that India is using trained dogs to detect covid cases in human sweat with about 92% accuracy. It's interesting they can do that. I wonder what they are smelling in the sweat? Maybe pheromones like you said?Maybe this "virus" is some traumatic state which spreads via pheromones. And maybe that's why loss of smell is one of the most common symptoms, the body is smelling something noxious, so it turns off sense of smell as a protective reaction. If so then trying to restore sense of smell by doing things like supplementing zinc might actually be harmful.
^Completely a theory I pulled out of thin air. I have 0 evidence to back that up
The evidence is not in the favor of people who quote contagion. It's seems to be more of a belief system than actual science,
Ray has said the same thing every time he is asked about isolation. "One doesn't need to isolate a thing to see its effects..." maybe I'm cognitively inadequate but I just can't wrap my head round that, whatever way one looks at it. I have even emailed him about it, there's just a certain extent of it he seems to reject for no good reason. I tried to get more out of him but failed. He has verbatim questioned the existence of viruses however, as he repeatedly has told the story of asking his professors about the origin of viruses, insinuating that they are born of the body. So to prove a virus is caught and not produced has proven to be challenging for science.
I'm open to this interpretationMaybe this "virus" is some traumatic state which spreads via pheromones. And maybe that's why loss of smell is one of the most common symptoms, the body is smelling something noxious, so it turns off sense of smell as a protective reaction. If so then trying to restore sense of smell by doing things like supplementing zinc might actually be harmful.
^Completely a theory I pulled out of thin air. I have 0 evidence to back that up
All your links have been addressed. Yes you should dig deeper no offense, it's just pushing the debate back in time. My thread has most of the info you need to start, Book Suggestion: "The Contagion Myth" By Thomas Cowan & Sally FallonI am not a virologist and not completely familiar with the cowen/coughman argument beyond listening to a few of their interviews and even in those, it just seems they are just playing with semantics.
So they are bogged down by isolation and definition. I dont remember which episode it was but it was a Timpone episode with one of them and they were just talking about how its not a virus but an exosome or something being passed back and forth or being triggered? I dont know.
It just seems like a roundabout way to say a virus.
Google first search result gives me: Reuters article (i imagine you have already seen this but linking it for others to see)
Isolation:
Virus Isolation from the First Patient with SARS-CoV-2 in Korea
Novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is found to cause a large outbreak started from Wuhan since December 2019 in China and SARS-CoV-2 infections have been reported with epidemiological linkage to China in 25 countries until now. We isolated SARS-CoV-2 from ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.govIsolation and Full-Length Genome Characterization of SARS-CoV-2 from COVID-19 Cases in Northern Italy | Journal of Virology
In December 2019, the novel coronavirus severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) emerged in the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, People’s Republic of China, as the etiologic agent of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), which has hence spread worldwide causing a global...journals.asm.orgPhenol-chloroform-based RNA purification for detection of SARS-CoV-2 by RT-qPCR: Comparison with automated systems
The outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) rapidly reached pandemic levels. Sufficient testing for SARS-CoV-2 has remained essential for tracking and containing the virus. SARS-CoV-2 testing capabilities are still limited in many countries. Here, we explore the...journals.plos.orgI study viruses: How our team isolated the new coronavirus to fight the global pandemic
By isolating SARS-CoV-2, the virus responsible for COVID-19, researchers can now work on developing tests, treatments and vaccines in Canada.theconversation.com
Genome:
I should probably just read their book at this point because, I do not understand these links ha
but basically, you (and presumedly them) would say that these are just wrong or not correct, or real?
Unless the feeling you are having is not caused by someone, because that someone doesn't exist, that's called psychosis OR you feel that way for a different reason entirely... that's the whole point here.If you love or hate someone you don't have to physically isolate and physically see that feeling to know that it exists
Appreciate the link. Thanks.Dr. Ray Peat - Understanding the Nature of Viruses and More - September 21, 2021 | One Radio Network
Why is Dr. Peat such a proponent of orange juice? Why isn’t the sugar a problem? What are some suggestions for losing weight? Why is cholesterol beneficial? Can people smell another person’s immune…oneradionetwork.com
I trust Ray’s views on viruses. I know some people on RPF prefer the “no virus contagion” ideas but honestly Ray has never agreed with this idea and I think he is correct.
Is it just me, or is this the first time Ray had said something positive about HCQ and Ivermectin? He says they are anti-inflammatory. He's not giving them his blessing outright I don't think, but there seems to be a shift.
FWIW, G6PD-deficiency (favism) is exactly the same deficiency that can cause exactly the same issues with Methylene Blue.In past interviews he said that Ivermection can help, but it can cause brain damage in some people. Vitamin D, Aspirin, progesterone, serotonin antagonists, are all effective and much safer than Ivermectin.
In July 2020 he already talked positively about HCQ. Wolfgang Wodarg raised concern about HCQ because some people have an enzyme deficiency which causes them to die from it. I asked Peat what he thinks about Wodarg's concerns:
"[...] I noticed you talked about hydroxychloroquine, what do you think about Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg's take on it's use in the last months? He recently warned that it's being used irresponsibly for people with G6PD-deficiency (favism) and he suspects that it's contributing to deaths in Brazil and among the african american population in the US."
https://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/covid-19-a-case-for-medical-detectives
Excerpts from Wodarg's article:
"The numerous and disproportionately frequent deaths of Covid-19 patients with dark skin colour and from southern countries are apparently also the result of a drug-related mistreatment. Affected are people with a specific enzyme deficiency, which occurs mainly in men whose families come from regions where malaria was or still is endemic. They are currently being treated with hydroxychloroquine, a drug which they do not tolerate, now being used all over the world to fight Covid-19. If this practice does not end soon, there is a great risk of widespread deaths, especially in Africa."
"An alarming discovery
I looked at the drugs that can cause severe hemolysis in G6PD deficiency and got really scared. One of the substances that is called very dangerous in all forms of this enzyme deficiency is the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).
But this is precisely the substance that Chinese researchers in Wuhan have been recommending against SARS since 2003. Along with the virus from Wuhan, HCQ now came back to us as one of the therapeutic options and was accepted as such. At the same time, HCQ was recommended as a promising agent against Covid-19 for further clinical trials with the support of WHO and other agencies.
According to reports, production of this drug is to be increased in Cameroon, Nigeria and other African countries. India is the largest producer of HCQ and exports it to 55 countries. Werner Baumann, Chairman of the Board of Management of Bayer AG, announced at the beginning of April that "various investigations in laboratories and clinics" had provided first indications that chloroquine might be suitable for the treatment of corona patients. The company then provided several million tablets.
There are now hundreds of trials worldwide, planned or ongoing by different sponsors, in which HCQ is used alone or together with other drugs. When I looked at some large studies to see if patients with G6PD deficiency were excluded, I found no evidence of this in most study plans. In the USA, for example, a large multi-center study with 4,000 volunteers from healthy medical staff is being prepared. Here, however, the term "hypersensitivity" is only used in general terms, as is the case with all drugs with regard to allergic reactions. In a chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine study by Oxford University (NCT04303507) with a planned 40,000 participants, the risk of G6PD deficiency is also not mentioned. In another large study by the Pentagon, though, there is an explicit warning to exclude G6PD deficiency patients from the study.
The following graph, based on information from the WHO database, shows how many studies on Covid-19 and HCQ have been initiated – and how few of them take enzyme deficiency into account.
Mostly only the cardiac complications of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine are mentioned, which in Brazil led to the premature termination of a study with 11 deaths of 81 subjects. However, it seems that worldwide little attention is paid to this further serious side effect. In addition, due to the lack of alternatives, HCQ has been tolerated and massively applied in many countries since the beginning of the year as part of a so-called "compassionate use". In medicine, compassionate use refers to the use of not yet approved drugs in emergency situations."
-
Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency - Wikipedia
"Many substances are potentially harmful to people with G6PD deficiency. Variation in response to these substances makes individual predictions difficult. Antimalarial drugs that can cause acute hemolysis in people with G6PD deficiency include primaquine, pamaquine, chloroquine, and hydroxychloroquine.[8]"
-
The pharmaceutical companies gave away millions of doses for free to various countries. According to Wodarg some countries do not have a G6PD-deficiency warning in the insert.
Novartis commits to donate up to 130 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to support the global COVID-19 pandemic response | Novartis
Bayer donates 8 million chloroquine tablets to the German Federal Government
RP: "Thanks, that’s important information. I don’t recommend its use, because there are so many safer more effective anti-inflammatory materials. For example, in a study using hydroxychloroquin and azithromycin separately or together, azithromycin by itself was the most effective. The FDA should just warn about that enzyme deficiency risk, instead of behaving insanely as they have been doing."
Unless the feeling you are having is not caused by someone, because that someone doesn't exist, that's called psychosis OR you feel that way for a different reason entirely... that's the whole point here.
i can't discount that as a possibility, and if that were the case, and one can observe effect without the need for isolation, one still needs to use controls in a well designed and implemented experiment to prove the existence of the virus. But no such experiments were made that involve controls. And earlier this year, Stefan Lanka did such an experiment, and he did not observe any difference between the experimental subject and the control. That was in a thread in this forum, but few people commented, which goes to show it was not so much technical as much as it involved having to use logic in a more critical way.Yeah it's not a perfect analogy but trauma is contagious: PTSD / Trauma Is Contagious, Can Be Transmitted Via Odor/pheromones
And radiation exposure is contagious (Peat has written about the "bystander effect").
You can't physically isolate or see a physical cause for trauma under a microscope but trauma is real, its existence is known based on symptoms, and it can spread to others.
Thanks, but we both may have missed a few of Ray's thoughts expressed in interviews we missed. The nuance sometimes escapes me.No, I noticed the same. I think he quoted some negative studies about taking IVM in previous show. I don't recall exactly if it was Pat's or Danny's podcast.
Exactly. Ray Peat's response is hard to understand, not in the way that I don't agree with him, but in the way that he gives out his reasoning. If he says because "quarks and black holes and quantum science" I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. This just goes to show no one is exempt from digging oneself into a hole, and digs deeper each time into a deeper hole. At least I can defend him by saying he is not a god, and only human.I was itching to ask Peat at the that point: how would any "covid test" work then if there is no yardstick to compare the results to?
Thanks, you're right.I haven't listened to this episode yet but I think he talked positively about them in the previous episodes too (one or two months ago). IIRC he said that ivermectin is OK to be used as treatment, but not as preventative because in a small number of people it can cause brain damage. But then went on to reaffirm that there are safer substances like aspirin and vitamin D.
He also talked about not needing to isolate a thing to see its effects in the previous episodes as well. And he talked about why you don't want to stimulate the immune systems repeatedly with vaccines because the effects are infinitely more complex than we are made to believe, and that the body starts making waves of antibodies and then it makes antibodies to the existing antibodies and so on.
Thanks.In past interviews he said that Ivermection can help, but it can cause brain damage in some people. Vitamin D, Aspirin, progesterone, serotonin antagonists, are all effective and much safer than Ivermectin.
In July 2020 he already talked positively about HCQ. Wolfgang Wodarg raised concern about HCQ because some people have an enzyme deficiency which causes them to die from it. I asked Peat what he thinks about Wodarg's concerns:
"[...] I noticed you talked about hydroxychloroquine, what do you think about Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg's take on it's use in the last months? He recently warned that it's being used irresponsibly for people with G6PD-deficiency (favism) and he suspects that it's contributing to deaths in Brazil and among the african american population in the US."
https://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/covid-19-a-case-for-medical-detectives
Excerpts from Wodarg's article:
"The numerous and disproportionately frequent deaths of Covid-19 patients with dark skin colour and from southern countries are apparently also the result of a drug-related mistreatment. Affected are people with a specific enzyme deficiency, which occurs mainly in men whose families come from regions where malaria was or still is endemic. They are currently being treated with hydroxychloroquine, a drug which they do not tolerate, now being used all over the world to fight Covid-19. If this practice does not end soon, there is a great risk of widespread deaths, especially in Africa."
"An alarming discovery
I looked at the drugs that can cause severe hemolysis in G6PD deficiency and got really scared. One of the substances that is called very dangerous in all forms of this enzyme deficiency is the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).
But this is precisely the substance that Chinese researchers in Wuhan have been recommending against SARS since 2003. Along with the virus from Wuhan, HCQ now came back to us as one of the therapeutic options and was accepted as such. At the same time, HCQ was recommended as a promising agent against Covid-19 for further clinical trials with the support of WHO and other agencies.
According to reports, production of this drug is to be increased in Cameroon, Nigeria and other African countries. India is the largest producer of HCQ and exports it to 55 countries. Werner Baumann, Chairman of the Board of Management of Bayer AG, announced at the beginning of April that "various investigations in laboratories and clinics" had provided first indications that chloroquine might be suitable for the treatment of corona patients. The company then provided several million tablets.
There are now hundreds of trials worldwide, planned or ongoing by different sponsors, in which HCQ is used alone or together with other drugs. When I looked at some large studies to see if patients with G6PD deficiency were excluded, I found no evidence of this in most study plans. In the USA, for example, a large multi-center study with 4,000 volunteers from healthy medical staff is being prepared. Here, however, the term "hypersensitivity" is only used in general terms, as is the case with all drugs with regard to allergic reactions. In a chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine study by Oxford University (NCT04303507) with a planned 40,000 participants, the risk of G6PD deficiency is also not mentioned. In another large study by the Pentagon, though, there is an explicit warning to exclude G6PD deficiency patients from the study.
The following graph, based on information from the WHO database, shows how many studies on Covid-19 and HCQ have been initiated – and how few of them take enzyme deficiency into account.
Mostly only the cardiac complications of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine are mentioned, which in Brazil led to the premature termination of a study with 11 deaths of 81 subjects. However, it seems that worldwide little attention is paid to this further serious side effect. In addition, due to the lack of alternatives, HCQ has been tolerated and massively applied in many countries since the beginning of the year as part of a so-called "compassionate use". In medicine, compassionate use refers to the use of not yet approved drugs in emergency situations."
-
Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency - Wikipedia
"Many substances are potentially harmful to people with G6PD deficiency. Variation in response to these substances makes individual predictions difficult. Antimalarial drugs that can cause acute hemolysis in people with G6PD deficiency include primaquine, pamaquine, chloroquine, and hydroxychloroquine.[8]"
-
The pharmaceutical companies gave away millions of doses for free to various countries. According to Wodarg some countries do not have a G6PD-deficiency warning in the insert.
Novartis commits to donate up to 130 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to support the global COVID-19 pandemic response | Novartis
Bayer donates 8 million chloroquine tablets to the German Federal Government
RP: "Thanks, that’s important information. I don’t recommend its use, because there are so many safer more effective anti-inflammatory materials. For example, in a study using hydroxychloroquin and azithromycin separately or together, azithromycin by itself was the most effective. The FDA should just warn about that enzyme deficiency risk, instead of behaving insanely as they have been doing."
But why can't it be isolated from the globalists perspective? How do they get around not proving it exists?All your links have been addressed. Yes you should dig deeper no offense, it's just pushing the debate back in time. My thread has most of the info you need to start, Book Suggestion: "The Contagion Myth" By Thomas Cowan & Sally Fallon
Watch the "rooster in the river of rats" by Kaufman if you haven't and no it's not semantics, it's extremely important for the proper particle to be blamed for disease, IF it even is a particle. If it is found out that we produce these particles, or so called exosomes and we can prove that they alone can be a cause of disease in someone (not proven mind you) then it's still a big game changer.
The current rhetoric is that viruses are straight up poisons that parasitizes a cell for its own gain. that's already so wrong on so many levels, like the fact that we need certain retroviral inserts for women to get pregnant, or for the proper function of stem cells. That stuff can't be defined as a poison along with rhe fact that viruses aren't evolutionarily incentivized, meaning they aren't alive and don't have anything to gain by continuing their lineage, they don't mate, they don't metabolize, they are akin to an inanimate object.
There are other interpretations of this terrain theory, like people who think viruses exist but are dissolving agents like cell produced enzymes for toxicity or cyclical life stages, like childhood illnesses. Like this guy: Exosomes vs Viruses – Viruses Are Not Contagious