Self-experiment: Feeling Great After 2 Weeks Of No Coffee Or White Sugar

sladerunner69

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Sorry, I'm not interested in entering some subjective game of semantics. Caffeine is a psychoactive drug and there is no going around this fact in my view. Foods and vitamins are necessities rather than drugs.

My intention was not to engage in semantics. Rather, it was to provoke thought and perhaps even discussion surrounding the role of caffeine and its neurological effects.

I posit that caffeine closer to a nutrient than a "drug". The chemical structure of caffeine is nearly identical to thyroid hormone. As such, they seem to have very similar effects in my own experience. For many years, ground beef contained a significant quantity of thyroid hormone. Would that be considered a drug as well? What about vitamin b1, which many people use before exams or studying to improve cognition?

When I drink coffee I don't notice much of a "psycho-active" effect- nothing on par with alcohol or marijuana. Much of the buzz or jitteriness that is reported by people who don't tolerate coffee is likely related to a spike in cortisol which is often a result of low blood sugar - something that thyroid hormone can do as well.

If caffeine is a drug than so are things like supplemental hormones, vitamins, forskolin, pine pollen, etc etc.
 

Redshine

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i get reliable migraine-type headaches after more than 2 days continous caffeine consumption and subsequent withdrawal.If it is the same for you,it is doable,but take off from work.Headache and nausea sets in after 24-36h for me.

The weird thing for me is that it actually helps with my migraines. Cola not. Also it helps with constipation for me. I do know it is al related with eachother so if 1/2 cups of coffee helps with it, im glad. And nothing beats the feeling in the morning of that first warm cup of coffee :blush:
 
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The weird thing for me is that it actually helps with my migraines. Cola not. Also it helps with constipation for me. I do know it is al related with eachother so if 1/2 cups of coffee helps with it, im glad. And nothing beats the feeling in the morning of that first warm cup of coffee :blush:

It is weirdly worded and formatted what i wrote.What i actually mean is that withdrawal causes these Migrain-type Headache.
 
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Random thoughts that pop out:

-Coffee is a stimulating medicine, Peat talks about using coffee more like a food and less like a drug
-Ben Greenfield has talked about adenosine receptors of the brain taking 5-7 days to reset their caffeine tolerance... As far as studies go, 100mg of caffeine per day as an upper limit (though who knows what kind of health the test subjects were in? The usual problem of scientific nutritional testing)
-cheap coffee/Starbucks and organic coffee are night and day, similar to herbal potency... Depends greatly on growing conditions. Mycotoxins (mold) is a bigger problem in cheap coffee (Dave Asprey, lots of people). Most American coffee is grown in 3rd world countries where pesticide regulations are abysmal... And coffee is among the most heavily sprayed crop in the world
-pre-ground coffee is likely more oxidized than unground coffee
-the ability for coffee to benefit the thyroid is dependent on liver health and adrenal health together (which is kind of like saying total body health imo)
-caffeine is cleared faster when the liver is healthier (Paul Chek)
-resistance training has a specific benefit of increasing rate of caffeine clearance (Paul Chek)
-caffeine causes a cortisol release... but if taken regularly, will not cause a cortisol release in the morning hours (3)
-coffee helps modulate parasympathetic activity (1), (2) but weirdly it also causes an acute spike in (sympathetic) muscle nervous activity regardless of whether it's caffeinated or not (4)

From 'Adrenal Fatigue:' the 21st century Stress Syndrome by James L. Wilson:
-coffee can be a primary contributor to adrenal fatigue.
-vitamin C (with bioflavonoids), vitamin E, pantothenic acid, niacin, vitamin B6, magnesium, calcium, and trace minerals are all important in adrenal rehab.
-herbs including licorice root (also advocated by Robert Morse), ashwagandha root & leaf, korean ginseng root (panax ginseng), siberian ginseng root (eleuthero root), ginger root, and ginkgo leaf can be added to adrenal rehab protocols.

As a personal aside, in the last few days I've been dosing with powdered acerola cherry (vitC), magnesium malate, powdered shilajit (trace minerals) accompanied by an herbal tea using all of the aforementioned herbs save panax ginseng with an emphasis on licorice root and it's made a WORLD of difference in all aspects of my health, including coffee tolerance. Dosing has been every 3-4 hours, though I think I hit a wall with the shilajit lol.
Eating liver to satiety in the week prior also made a big difference, probably for the B-complex and bioavailable copper... but at the end of the day it's all just speculation. Coffee breaks can be a big deal though! I hope everyone on this forum considers trying one from time to time.

(1) https://www.researchgate.net/public...asympathetic_activity_in_young_healthy_people
(2) Caffeine Enhances Modulation of Parasympathetic Nerve Activity in Humans: Quantification Using Power Spectral Analysis
(3) Caffeine Stimulation of Cortisol Secretion Across the Waking Hours in Relation to Caffeine Intake Levels
(4) Coffee acutely increases sympathetic nerve activity and blood pressure independently of caffeine content: role of habitual versus nonhabitual drink... - PubMed - NCBI
 
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metabolizm

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-coffee helps modulate parasympathetic activity (1), (2) but weirdly it also causes an acute spike in (sympathetic) muscle nervous activity regardless of whether it's caffeinated or not (4)

That is weird, but would explain why decaff coffee often makes me just as jittery as caffeinated coffee.
 
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@Dannywharton that's nearly 3 weeks. Still going strong?

Hey, yes definitely. Still experiencing the same pleasant calmness, and my sleep is much better. Interestingly, I had one coffee the other day at about 2pm and then COULD NOT fall asleep that night. I was completely wired. I know this isn't the coffee that's the problem - it's me. But still, alleviating the symptoms it may have been contributing to is definitely a plus.

And I just took a look back at the quotes you posted from Ray about caffeine. And I'm 100% with you on that; I'm not doubting the benefits of caffeine/coffee for a moment, but I think that perhaps people who are a little compromised or overly sensitive for whatever reason, it can exacerbate problems. I mean, Ray also goes on about the benefits of thyroid, but it's widely reported and accepted on here that in some circumstances it can cause more harm than good.

Hopefully I can get to the point where I can introduce coffee again and experience the benefits.

EDIT: Sorry, just looked further back and see you're on a similar train with caffeine! I too wish I could just experience those benefits. Alas, there are obviously some things to fix first.
 
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That is weird, but would explain why decaff coffee often makes me just as jittery as caffeinated coffee.

This is really interesting - I did switch to decaf once and still didn't experience the calmness I do now. I was under the impression the decaf wouldn't ramp me up so to speak, but if it's still acting on the nervous system, this explains why it didn't work.
 
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Liver health...........

1*FM24c29LOu0L6pIs9eT_Dg.jpeg

But isn't caffeine promoted in Peat circles to fix the liver? How do you get around this catch-22?
 

biggirlkisss

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I find coffee helpful I think the amount and the amount of food is important for it not back firing. I think also it something you take out and bring back when your health is better.
 
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metabolizm

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Hey, yes definitely. Still experiencing the same pleasant calmness, and my sleep is much better. Interestingly, I had one coffee the other day at about 2pm and then COULD NOT fall asleep that night. I was completely wired. I know this isn't the coffee that's the problem - it's me. But still, alleviating the symptoms it may have been contributing to is definitely a plus.

And I just took a look back at the quotes you posted from Ray about caffeine. And I'm 100% with you on that; I'm not doubting the benefits of caffeine/coffee for a moment, but I think that perhaps people who are a little compromised or overly sensitive for whatever reason, it can exacerbate problems. I mean, Ray also goes on about the benefits of thyroid, but it's widely reported and accepted on here that in some circumstances it can cause more harm than good.

Hopefully I can get to the point where I can introduce coffee again and experience the benefits.

EDIT: Sorry, just looked further back and see you're on a similar train with caffeine! I too wish I could just experience those benefits. Alas, there are obviously some things to fix first.

Okay, so I'm going to quit caffeine for a while, as you're doing, and see what happens. I'm not sleeping well at all, and I'm anxious, and I'm running on adrenaline, so it's probably not helping. In fact, it might actually be responsible for a lot of those states.
 
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Okay, so I'm going to quit caffeine for a while, as you're doing, and see what happens. I'm not sleeping well at all, and I'm anxious, and I'm running on adrenaline, so it's probably not helping. In fact, it might actually be responsible for a lot of those states.

Definitely worth a try. I mean if you're struggling with anxiety, sleep, and adrenaline, I'm almost 100% sure you won't lose any benefits by cutting out coffee, if that makes sense. Maybe also try dropping other metabolic stimulants, like sugar, that aren't backed up by sufficient nutrition? Again, not saying I think sugar's the problem, but too much sugar without enough nutrients is.

Please let us know how you get on?
 

Runenight201

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If I drink coffee again it's going to have to be properly prepared from high quality beans, otherwise it usually negatively effects me. I recall drinking burnt folgers coffee from a drip coffee machine and getting a terrible head ache and instant brain fog.... not at all conducive to supporting high cognitive function which I needed for the hours of work I had ahead of me! I'm not willing to say its the coffee itself, as I've had very positive experiences from gourmet cups. However, despite the enlightened cognitive function, I usually experience some underlying feeling of restlessness and anxiety, which usually manifests for me as sweat down my pits.

White sugar also has been tasting too refined lately. It's too sweet. Even maple syrup. What's odd is I used to love coffee and sugar, but I think as I reached a new state of realization of what's truly good for me, my perception of these substances has become negative. I believe I had become biased towards the positive effects of these substances, such as increased energy and cognition, while downplaying, ignoring, or not being aware of the negative effects.

For anyone looking for suitable replacements, because just water can be boring, although I have become to drink the substance more often now, I recommend anything with fresh squeezed lemon/lime juice. Mix that with some tonic water, and you could add various chemicals/nutrients per your needs. If you're looking for a powerful relaxing effect, mix the fresh lemon/lime juice with some alcoholic spirits of various sorts, and you'll have a very pleasant next hour or so.

I also have grown fond of oolong tea and then mixing in a juice, such as mango/pineapple/cherry/ etc... I find this very soothing on the stomach and warms me up too. It really helps for fasts as well. I haven't eaten for 12 or so hours and I don't feel undue hunger stress. There is a slight feeling of weakness, but not lethargy. I recognize that my body doesn't have the exuberant strength that solid food gives me, so any type of exercise of extreme effort is off the table, but for seated work I feel relatively good. Eating the correct foods is for a different subject, but dietary choices for good health is very finite, and it's very easy to consume something that can throw the whole system out of wack.
 

theLaw

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But isn't caffeine promoted in Peat circles to fix the liver? How do you get around this catch-22?

Yes, but you would need to start small if sufficient carbs and enough calories overall before working your way up. If you're starving yourself in any way, caffeine will just burn you out. Haidut has posted a ton of great suggestions for adapting to caffeine.

I think the magic-recipe to start with is Coke/Pepsi, which match carbs (roughly) to caffeine, so 41G sugar to 35mg caffeine. Very few people get an adrenaline response to soda.

But Taurine, K2, and B-Vitamins can also be very helpful. Red Bull is a good test with around 80mg caffeine and only 28G sugar, but Taurine and B-vitamins as well.

Also, if table sugar, especially soda, causes problems, then I would just buy a bottle of Energin, and see if that solves it. You could test each b-vitamin, but that would take some time. Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix
 

brainfog

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"When your coffee tolerance is poor, it might say that the liver is suffering and is not storing glycogen very well and can’t back you up efficiently (by releasing glycogen) when there is excessive stimulation from coffee. It could also be a signal that you’re not following one or more of the rules listed in the previous section of this blog.

Hypothyroidism increases susceptibility to low blood sugar because of the effects of thyroid hormone on the liver. Hypothyroid individuals can have coffee intolerance symptoms for this reason and sometimes need to show extra caution when drinking coffee. Broda Barnes’ book “Hypoglycemia: It’s Not Your Mind, It’s Your Liver” is an excellent resource to explore this topic further.

Going the extra mile is sometimes necessary for those that are really susceptible to over stimulation from coffee. One such step is adding a little coffee to milk/sugar instead of adding milk/sugar to coffee."

Coffee Done Right – Tips to Help Avoid Coffee Intolerance – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
 

Quelsatron

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I'm going to try and quit coffee. I'm suspecting that the "running on empty" effect messed me up previously to finding peat, which also included some sort of sibo or intestinal permeability thing and the non caffeine things in the coffee might irritate it further. Also, eating fruit with the morning coffee seems to make me sort of spaced out and weird. I used to think that it was just the "metabolism revealed" thing you get from lowering stress, but it might be the sugars feeding SIBO or the terrible quality of swedish grocery store fruit irritating the intestines.

I'm also suspecting caffeine might mess with the circadian rythm. Not drinking it late, but drinking it early, which I've read could abolish the waking cortisol response, and maybe also send me into abstinence during sleep, which would explain why I have to drag myself out of bed every morning.

I definitely have something messing with my intestines either way, because I have rosacea and completely invincible sebhorreic dermatitis. No vitamin supplements do anything, so it has to be the presence rather than the absence of nutrients.
 
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I'm going to try and quit coffee. I'm suspecting that the "running on empty" effect messed me up previously to finding peat, which also included some sort of sibo or intestinal permeability thing and the non caffeine things in the coffee might irritate it further. Also, eating fruit with the morning coffee seems to make me sort of spaced out and weird. I used to think that it was just the "metabolism revealed" thing you get from lowering stress, but it might be the sugars feeding SIBO or the terrible quality of swedish grocery store fruit irritating the intestines.

I'm also suspecting caffeine might mess with the circadian rythm. Not drinking it late, but drinking it early, which I've read could abolish the waking cortisol response, and maybe also send me into abstinence during sleep, which would explain why I have to drag myself out of bed every morning.

I definitely have something messing with my intestines either way, because I have rosacea and completely invincible sebhorreic dermatitis. No vitamin supplements do anything, so it has to be the presence rather than the absence of nutrients.

I wouldnt be so sure about non-deficiency.If in a state of critical damage,cells need chronically more micronutrients,RP even wrote about Rosacea and increased B2 Req.Also,O6:O3 Ratio matters,1:1 seems good and physiologic,do not confound all PUFA,try to obtain Oil with Alpha Linoleic Acid,such as Flaxseed,it simulates Animal-intake of Grasses and Leafs,which contain high amounts of this fatty Acid.Pretty sure that Animalfat in Sweden is grainbased,which has an clear Linoleic Acid bias.Ratio matters,because there is competition around the converting enzymes like desaturases,elongases.In the end,the mechanism governs how much Arachidonic Acid you release under stress,leading to Inflammation,and the amount and duration of the severe type of it.
 

sladerunner69

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Im not sure if i can handle high carbs:

The following symptoms may be associated with acute or chronic hyperglycemia, with the first three composing the classic hyperglycemic triad:


The important question: is the hyperglycemia a result of the diet or of a metabolic problem?
 

sladerunner69

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I'm going to try and quit coffee. I'm suspecting that the "running on empty" effect messed me up previously to finding peat, which also included some sort of sibo or intestinal permeability thing and the non caffeine things in the coffee might irritate it further. Also, eating fruit with the morning coffee seems to make me sort of spaced out and weird. I used to think that it was just the "metabolism revealed" thing you get from lowering stress, but it might be the sugars feeding SIBO or the terrible quality of swedish grocery store fruit irritating the intestines.

I'm also suspecting caffeine might mess with the circadian rythm. Not drinking it late, but drinking it early, which I've read could abolish the waking cortisol response, and maybe also send me into abstinence during sleep, which would explain why I have to drag myself out of bed every morning.

I definitely have something messing with my intestines either way, because I have rosacea and completely invincible sebhorreic dermatitis. No vitamin supplements do anything, so it has to be the presence rather than the absence of nutrients.

I have the same skin issues, interesting. I may try to cut back on the carbs myself and maybe the coffee as well. There has to be some cause of it. Do you think SIBO can cause skin issues?
 

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