Self Defense: A Way to Possess the Anti-Victim Mentality

[PolishSun]

Maybe it would be better to learn to survive in wildness?

 

[OccamzRazer]

Maybe it would be better to learn to survive in wildness?

Probably so!

But why not learn and advance in both areas?

If things get bad enough to necessitate wilderness-living, one might run into 'bad guys' there, too.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Very interesting, I should've mentioned systema in the original post.

Why do you practice it, tho, if it's not valuable for self-protection?

Or are you saying that systema is superior to other methods?

Systema is not suited for self-defense either. It was developed for the Soviet military, and is used mostly by trained killers. It is an offensive art, meant to kill and main people. It is also hard to learn, and teaches you to do things that will get you in trouble, like breaking spines. If you want to learn to fight, go ahead. But that is not necessary, learning to avoid conflict is far better. For the average or larger sized man, if he is in a bad neighborhood, he might learn boxing strikes. Couple of caveats though. The dancing and dodging is not that good for the streets, mostly because you should never waste time and allow them to bring in friends. Blocking is worth little without gloves. So just get strong, learn to run fast, and learn the basic punches. The basic punches should also be trained to hurt people, none of that point scoring love-tap stuff they often teach in boxing schools.

I learn systema for several reasons. Health, because it teaches relaxation and natural movement, magic powers (you would not believe the stuff I am starting to be able to do), grounding, feeling peaceful in conflict, and it makes me more attractive (because relaxation, learning to love everyone, and grounding).

Again, people should think about how common violence is, and how they can make it less common if it happens in their lives before learning to fight. Videos, weekend courses etc are worth nothing. To learn a single strike well enough to be useful takes tens of hours of training. Learning the eight basic boxing punches would take hundreds of hours and require some maintenance. And you still are liable to breaking your hand with them because they are not meant for unarmed combat.

 

[Adf]

It hardly takes an expert to know wing chun , tai chi and wushu do not work, or to understand the realities of actual violent confrontation. IMHO you are giving people harmful advice. I practice a martial art, Russian Systema, and I have no illusions that I could go around engaging in actual violence, nor do I expect to be in a fight in my life. I am not a kid, fights among adults are rare.

People should not practice these things for self protection, it makes them more vulnerable. There are good reasons to practice martial arts, but not self defense for regular people.

You have a very strong belief of what people should and shouldn't do regarding self defense. What if you're wrong? Or are you too stubborn to give that thought any energy? Because you are wrong. Not for any specific reason other than, the world, the reality we live in, is not black and white. You have a very black and white stance on this topic.

What if your child is picked up and snatched by a stranger on the street? What will you do? Would you not want some sort of combat experience to be able to safely save your child while incapacitating the kidnapper?

You can argue all you want that, that situation will never happen. That you would not and must not allow yourself to ever be in that situation. Yes sound advice, but Hugh, you must realize that life doesn't work that way. People don't have a 6th sense switched on 24/7 to be able to always avoid nasty situations. ***t does happen, ***t does hit the fan, we as humans make mistakes and WILL find ourselves in a tight spot from time to time. Whether someone is confident or not, having some sort of combat experience is MUCH better than having no experience.

I feel strongly this way from a personal experience...
I was out at a pub with a group of mates when I was late teen. I've never had true combat or fight experience at this point. I wasn't even drinking, I was sober. My entire group of friends of 7 people was attacked, unprovoked by another group of guys. There were only 3 of them. 3 guys attacked 7 guys, unprovoked. They wanted a fight that night, it just happened me and my mates were there to be the target.

Neither I nor any of my drunk friends had any fighting experience. I froze. No fight, no flight, I froze, standing, taking several punches until the guy gave up on me and ran off. I didn't feel pain, but my face was bloody and my lip split open.

One of my friends was pinned on the floor by one of the 3 guys, getting wailed on. ALL OF US FROZE. None of us knew what to do, we were so confused. We were lucky we didn't get stabbed. We could have been frozen in shock from that too and allowed the attackers to stab us. Believe it or not, this is the most common reaction for people to have. To freeze.

The whole ordeal was over in less than 1 minute. Probably less than 20 seconds, but sense of time really changes in those situations.

My friend who was pinned down was way worse off than me, but luckily he survived.

Yes sure, if we had amazing sixth sense we could have avoided that. But like I said, that is not reality, ***t hits the fan. If that were to happen to me today, it would have ended very differently. My mate would not have been so badly beaten, because I would have acted swiftly.

So here is a situation for you to ponder deeply...
If you have a son. Your child. Your life and blood. You are so proud to have a son. You will of course teach him to stay out of danger. You will do your darn best to make sure he knows how to avoid danger. But he has zero combat experience. You don't want him to learn self defense because of your beliefs.

Your son goes out with his mates to have a good time. You know very well what you have taught him. But life does what life does best. ***t happens and your son is attacked by strangers.

Your son doesn't know how to respond, he freezes, he lets it happen. He is savagely beaten. Your son is savagely beaten and in hospital.

Are your thoughts seriously going to be..
"My son failed to avoid that danger"
"I failed to teach my son to avoid that danger"

You wouldn't even slightly think..
"**** me I should have had him learn some self-defense"

Because Hugh, ***t happens. You would want to be even a little bit prepared for it.

 

[Adf]

Systema is not suited for self-defense either. It was developed for the Soviet military, and is used mostly by trained killers. It is an offensive art, meant to kill and main people. It is also hard to learn, and teaches you to do things that will get you in trouble, like breaking spines. If you want to learn to fight, go ahead. But that is not necessary, learning to avoid conflict is far better. For the average or larger sized man, if he is in a bad neighborhood, he might learn boxing strikes. Couple of caveats though. The dancing and dodging is not that good for the streets, mostly because you should never waste time and allow them to bring in friends. Blocking is worth little without gloves. So just get strong, learn to run fast, and learn the basic punches. The basic punches should also be trained to hurt people, none of that point scoring love-tap stuff they often teach in boxing schools.

I learn systema for several reasons. Health, because it teaches relaxation and natural movement, magic powers (you would not believe the stuff I am starting to be able to do), grounding, feeling peaceful in conflict, and it makes me more attractive (because relaxation, learning to love everyone, and grounding).

Again, people should think about how common violence is, and how they can make it less common if it happens in their lives before learning to fight. Videos, weekend courses etc are worth nothing. To learn a single strike well enough to be useful takes tens of hours of training. Learning the eight basic boxing punches would take hundreds of hours and require some maintenance. And you still are liable to breaking your hand with them because they are not meant for unarmed combat.

I would very much believe about what magic things you can do. I'd be interested to know what can you do?

Through meditation practice (Hemi-sync Gateway Experience) I was once able to communicate to one of my chickens outside, while I was laying in bed. It scared to crap out of her, made her shriek like I've never heard before or since, so I never attempted it again. I think it was invasive and felt terrible afterward.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

@Adam

Now you are strawmanning me like a mf. Yeah, you can get attacked, and you can get hit by lightning or catch covid-19. None of that is worth considering because it is not likely that it will happen, and when it does it usually is not a big deal. Except maybe the lighting. It is not worth dedicating thousands of hours to.

I am also not against learning self-defense or fighting. I think Systema, with a good teacher, can be life changing. And there is nothing wrong with any martial arts. I just dont want people to be afraid and thus waste time preparing for something that wont happen, nor do I want anyone who wants to learn fighting or self defense to waste their time on taichi (in case of fighting) or martial arts in general (in case of self defense).

You can imagine all kinds of crazy scenarios and fine, fill your mind with fear. I am not going to and I would not want anyone else to do so.

Anyway, if that thing with the chickens scared you, perhaps it is better you stay away from developing these abilities. There is some scary and weird stuff that can come up.

 

[opethfeldt]

Knowing how to fight is important but your own internal state is most important for avoiding fights altogether. I haven't been attacked since my teenage years. When you exude a peaceful demeanor, the chances of you being attacked are minimal, even by normally aggressive individuals. Aggression is triggered by fear, which will be created in others when you have an antagonistic mindset when confronted. They can feel your thoughts toward them, even if they aren't very perceptive. If you remain calm and stay in your higher vibration, you will likely not attract aggression from others and the conflict can be resolved in a peaceful way.

 

[Regina]

It's hard to find a good teacher.

 

[Beastmode]

Systema needs brackets around it when speaking of as it's taught differently by each instructor.

I've trained with great instructors and not so great ones over the past decade.

If progressed properly, it can be a great base of movement for "self awareness" that can be applied in potential violent situations. Again, most teachers of it aren't that good in my opinion.

The psychological component, situational awareness, how to detect and diffuse is the basis that is missed in most teachings. Tony Blauer is probably the best when it comes to this understanding and application in my opinion. He's not biasing the learner into a technique, rather an understanding first.

It helps put into context all the different ways of "defending" oneself in a violent encounter. Or better put, avoiding one altogether. Look him up. He has plenty of great stuff online for free.

For example:
Training wrestling is great, but do you wrestle someone with a knife?
Training boxing is cool, but what happens when there's 3 people attacking you at once?

The understanding comes before the application of a "technique" (i.e- boxing, wrestling.)

Going back to Systema, it's more of an open system that, if progressed properly, can integrate all the "techniques" more spontaneously since most violent encounters are not preceded by an agreed set of rules.

I highly suggest an audio series, not free, by Tony Blauer, that will probably have a higher likelihood of saving a life than any technique. Hence, avoiding, or if escalated, diffusing a situation without violence. CEREBRAL SELF-DEFENSE: The Mental Edge — Blauer Spear System (its $15.)

 

[Regina]

Systema needs brackets around it when speaking of as it's taught differently by each instructor.

I've trained with great instructors and not so great ones over the past decade.

If progressed properly, it can be a great base of movement for "self awareness" that can be applied in potential violent situations. Again, most teachers of it aren't that good in my opinion.

The psychological component, situational awareness, how to detect and diffuse is the basis that is missed in most teachings. Tony Blauer is probably the best when it comes to this understanding and application in my opinion. He's not biasing the learner into a technique, rather an understanding first.

It helps put into context all the different ways of "defending" oneself in a violent encounter. Or better put, avoiding one altogether. Look him up. He has plenty of great stuff online for free.

For example:
Training wrestling is great, but do you wrestle someone with a knife?
Training boxing is cool, but what happens when there's 3 people attacking you at once?

The understanding comes before the application of a "technique" (i.e- boxing, wrestling.)

Going back to Systema, it's more of an open system that, if progressed properly, can integrate all the "techniques" more spontaneously since most violent encounters are not preceded by an agreed set of rules.

I highly suggest an audio series, not free, by Tony Blauer, that will probably have a higher likelihood of saving a life than any technique. Hence, avoiding, or if escalated, diffusing a situation without violence. CEREBRAL SELF-DEFENSE: The Mental Edge — Blauer Spear System (its $15.)

Good post.

 

[Adf]

@Adam

Now you are strawmanning me like a mf. Yeah, you can get attacked, and you can get hit by lightning or catch covid-19. None of that is worth considering because it is not likely that it will happen, and when it does it usually is not a big deal. Except maybe the lighting. It is not worth dedicating thousands of hours to.

I am also not against learning self-defense or fighting. I think Systema, with a good teacher, can be life changing. And there is nothing wrong with any martial arts. I just dont want people to be afraid and thus waste time preparing for something that wont happen, nor do I want anyone who wants to learn fighting or self defense to waste their time on taichi (in case of fighting) or martial arts in general (in case of self defense).

You can imagine all kinds of crazy scenarios and fine, fill your mind with fear. I am not going to and I would not want anyone else to do so.

Anyway, if that thing with the chickens scared you, perhaps it is better you stay away from developing these abilities. There is some scary and weird stuff that can come up.

Strawmanning? You literally said fighting is not self defense, self Defense is not fighting in an earlier post. So everything I responded with had that strong point of view of yours in mind. I don't think I blew your statement out of proportion, it already had a heavy proportion to begin with. I provided an example, and a real life experience.

Hugh I do agree with most of what you say. No decision needs be made in a state of fear. Caution is not fear.

But like what everyone else here has stated, knowing Self defense greatly decreases that fear.

- Martial arts and experience with fighting increases confidence
- Increasing confidence in self allows for calmer, rational thinking even in high stress situations.
- This allows you to process, decide and act much more efficiently, whether that is to escape or to stand and defend if there's no other option.
- Better decisions are made in the heat of the moment when you are in control.

All of that is self defense, Including fighting. Being able to physically defend yourself instead of freezing. Because the natural reaction for many people inexperienced with fighting is to freeze. Sometimes a person can't get away at all from a situation without being able to land a hit in first. Learning to fight, can be the difference between that hit doing absolutely nothing (if they don't freeze), or knocking the aggressor off their feet.

Knowing how to fight is an important foundational tool in the Self Defense belt. To say otherwise imho is completely wrong. Regardless of how low a chance of a fight happening to you happens. I had that mentality too, I thought avoiding fights is the best way to win fights and that I would never be in one. I was wrong. I have a permanent scar on my lip to prove that.

Also, you seem to see self defense fighting as having to waste hundreds and thousands of hours mastering punching, kicking, and combat for situations that may never happen.

I see self defense fighting as having something you can improve upon with yourself, that trains discipline, balance, strength, character, that enhances confidence and health, that brings individuals together in a group that work together to help improve each other. It's for the benefit of self and for others around you, all the while preparing you for a situation that may happen.

On the chicken, I love my chickens, I hurt my chicken, so I didn't attempt that experiment again. The way you worded your response to that, are you saying to learn your abilities is at the expense of possibly hurting others? I hope that's not the case.

You still didn't mention what abilities you have. Would you care to explain them?

 

[OccamzRazer]

@Hugh Johnson @Beastmode

I've been learning and practicing Systema techniques for the past few days. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to practice with...on the brightside, I'd been incorporating very similar movements into other training styles for a little while now, almost without realizing what I was doing.

Anyways. What practitioners would you recommend? The original WW2 soviet dude's lineage? Newer styles? Some modern styles look pretty controversial/overly theory-based.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

@Hugh Johnson @Beastmode

I've been learning and practicing Systema techniques for the past few days. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to practice with...on the brightside, I'd been incorporating very similar movements into other training styles for a little while now, almost without realizing what I was doing.

Anyways. What practitioners would you recommend? The original WW2 soviet dude's lineage? Newer styles? Some modern styles look pretty controversial/overly theory-based.

I cant make heads or tails from the videos. Maybe you can, if it was me I would not bother.

However, if you learn relaxation, balance, mass transfer, feeling of energy and how to how package (torso and hips) together, it could work. But even then if you want to box some the stuff is not optimized for the ring. I suggest trying out a systema gym, these are not really techniques that you can just adopt,more like principles. Solovyev is the best, imho.

 

[Beastmode]

@Hugh Johnson @Beastmode

I've been learning and practicing Systema techniques for the past few days. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to practice with...on the brightside, I'd been incorporating very similar movements into other training styles for a little while now, almost without realizing what I was doing.

Anyways. What practitioners would you recommend? The original WW2 soviet dude's lineage? Newer styles? Some modern styles look pretty controversial/overly theory-based.

Teacher beats style.

Depending on where you are, you might find someone who represents it to your liking.

Lineage is as important as the teacher's capacity to demonstrate and "draw out" your abilities and understanding/integration.

I've never trained with Vlad in Toronto, but I've heard only good things with him in person. Martin Wheeler in California is another one. Kwan Lee in Seattle. Tommy Floyd in West Palm Beach. Kevin Secours in Montreal.

All that I can think of at the moment that I think are worth suggesting.

If you scroll back to my earlier post, I still think Tony Blauer gives the best foundation to build any form of "self defense" as you'll have a solid construct to work from and not be so focused on any "technique."

 

[Regina]

Teacher beats style.

Depending on where you are, you might find someone who represents it to your liking.

Lineage is as important as the teacher's capacity to demonstrate and "draw out" your abilities and understanding/integration.

I've never trained with Vlad in Toronto, but I've heard only good things with him in person. Martin Wheeler in California is another one. Kwan Lee in Seattle. Tommy Floyd in West Palm Beach. Kevin Secours in Montreal.

All that I can think of at the moment that I think are worth suggesting.

If you scroll back to my earlier post, I still think Tony Blauer gives the best foundation to build any form of "self defense" as you'll have a solid construct to work from and not be so focused on any "technique."

Teacher beats style.