Sedentary Steroid Users Grow Double The Rate Of Natural Bodybuilders

tankasnowgod

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I'm sure they would build muscle without training on someone with hardly any muscle.

Indeed, there is another study that showed that an even lower dose of testosterone can build about 11 pounds of muscle in 10 weeks in hypogonadal men, again, with no training-

Testosterone replacement increases fat-free mass and muscle size in hypogonadal men - PubMed

So it's not a question of "if" steroids can build muscle in men without training (clearly, they can), but more a question of who could benefit, dosing, and such. Maybe healthy men in their 20s and 30s would see little to no benefit without training. But, considering there are many men alive over 40, and many in their 20s and 30s that could be hypogonadal, there is likely a majority of the male population that could indeed put on muscle using some sort of steroid, even without any sort regular weight training.
 

cjm

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Testosterone puts on tons of water weight. I did a 350mg cycle and gained like 25lb in 4 weeks and immediately lost most of it when coming off.

Can you share a little more? Was it 350mg per week or over the 4 weeks? How did you feel? Were you taking an aromatase inhibitor at the same time? Estrogen, aromatized from T, would increase water retention.
 

SonOfEurope

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The argument about horses and chimps is irrelevant they use their muscles .. I'm not going to just believe a study over my own experience with 5000 testosterone why didn't I gain this muscle then even when I started working out on steroids not like I gained a bunch of muscle fast . Take some steroids and come back.

5000 Testosterone? Holy ***t bro that' over 8 times what's running through my blood..

Your DHT must be much higher as well. How are you controlling E2?

Do you feel that "Alpha State" , of being able to handle terrible situation with a calm mind? Did your voice get noticeably deeper? Do you feel the need for deeper sleep than before? (from the increased anabolic state) and appetite? Do you notice naturally higher grip-strenght and more vascularity?
 

R J

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Can you share a little more? Was it 350mg per week or over the 4 weeks? How did you feel? Were you taking an aromatase inhibitor at the same time? Estrogen, aromatized from T, would increase water retention.

350mg per week test cyp. I didn’t feel great anyways. I tried arimidex and aromasin and crashed estrogen with the latter. It might have been as long as 6 weeks, I cannot recall, it was a particular time of my life I’m not too fond of so I don’t care to remember clearly.

I put on noticeable weight and people could tell. I think most of it was just water. Testosterone probably has this function even independent on estrogen somehow. I was also stacking some gh secretogues which contributed to water weight and skews my results. I have heard GH increases the water in muscle cells. It was a pointless endeavour as I didn’t accomplish anything worthwhile to justify all that stuff. I definitely looked big despite not accomplishing anything in the gym. I looked like $hite with my shirt off but in clothes I looked big. It was such a drastic change that I found out someone who saw me (person with an inferiority complex regarding body image) immediately wanted to get on gear.

It’s what happens when one “educates” themselves on mentally ill bodybuilding/steroid forums. “Just do 500mg test for your first cycle bro” I thought that if I took this stuff I’d somehow magically heal from pain / cfs issues. So dumb. I’m kind of glad I did it to realize how steroids are the last piece of the puzzle not the first. Training and diet and mentality are way more important.
 
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cjm

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I thought that if I took this stuff I’d somehow magically heal from pain / cfs issues. So dumb. I’m kind of glad I did it to realize how steroids are the last piece of the puzzle not the first. Training and diet and mentality are way more important.

I can relate. I would add that ANY gut issue will put a stick in the spokes of any protocol, at least from personal experience. I'm only feeling comfortable returning to hormones after a consistent course of milk kefir (a quart or more a day for two weeks and ongoing). Everything is working better now.

Thanks for sharing, too. I figured you were taking precautions, just wanted some clarity.
 

R J

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I can relate. I would add that ANY gut issue will put a stick in the spokes of any protocol, at least from personal experience. I'm only feeling comfortable returning to hormones after a consistent course of milk kefir (a quart or more a day for two weeks and ongoing). Everything is working better now.

Thanks for sharing, too. I figured you were taking precautions, just wanted some clarity.

Yes, I agree. Positive health changes start mostly in the gut, which is connected to the mind.
 

Jing

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5000 Testosterone? Holy ***t bro that' over 8 times what's running through my blood..

Your DHT must be much higher as well. How are you controlling E2?

Do you feel that "Alpha State" , of being able to handle terrible situation with a calm mind? Did your voice get noticeably deeper? Do you feel the need for deeper sleep than before? (from the increased anabolic state) and appetite? Do you notice naturally higher grip-strenght and more vascularity?
Not sure about my dht , my test isn't that high now was a while ago and yh I was using arimidex , na didn't really change much for me not like I could tell it was that high, voice didn't get deeper no need for more sleep or anything . Appetite definitely increased abit , not sure on grip I've always had good grip strength but I did feel stronger while lifting weights . Vascularity stayed the same I think.
 
T

TheBeard

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Testosterone puts on tons of water weight. I did a 350mg cycle and gained like 25lb in 4 weeks and immediately lost most of it when coming off.

Water is part of the strength of muscles.
Muscles are 70% water.
Water counts, it's not like it has to be discarded and not taken into consideration of the progress made with AAS.
 
T

TheBeard

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Yh most of it was probably water ... Also did you workout before this? Did you have muscle on you before?? I had my testosterone levels in the 5000 for months didn't gain any muscle I wasn't working out lol it maintained all my muscle I had though. Steroids are best at maintaining muscle . Steroids ain't the miracle people make them out to be.

I worked out more frequently before the cycle.
My muscles looked pretty hard and not fluffy on testosterone, intramusclar water obviously increased, muscles are 70% water.
My neck got 20% larger without even working it out directly.
 

SonOfEurope

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I worked out more frequently before the cycle.
My muscles looked pretty hard and not fluffy on testosterone, intramusclar water obviously increased, muscles are 70% water.
My neck got 20% larger without even working it out directly.


Yep, the neck and shoulders appear to be the most sensitive to anabolic hormones.

When a man is ill and his T goes down, the first muscle loss is neck and shoulders, sad to see.
 

Jing

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I worked out more frequently before the cycle.
My muscles looked pretty hard and not fluffy on testosterone, intramusclar water obviously increased, muscles are 70% water.
My neck got 20% larger without even working it out directly.
Weird guess Im just unlikely, I've been on testosterone more than two years now I haven't really even gained much muscle been slacking on working out .
 

SonOfEurope

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Not sure about my dht , my test isn't that high now was a while ago and yh I was using arimidex , na didn't really change much for me not like I could tell it was that high, voice didn't get deeper no need for more sleep or anything . Appetite definitely increased abit , not sure on grip I've always had good grip strength but I did feel stronger while lifting weights . Vascularity stayed the same I think.


Thanks for the kind reply,

It appears there is a space between 2500 T and maybe (??) 4500 or 5000 where you Max out a certain potential, and to take it further you'd have to go into the absurd 1+ gram a week the "pros " are doing.

I haven't got the slightest clue as to how I would feel with 5000+ T... Maybe it's an idealization as my highest level ever by the doc was 614....I have tried only low dose DHEA+pregnenolone so far... I'm thinking of giving it a try this spring.

Where (dose) would you guys suggest I start? Scrotal application? I'd drop the progesterone a little to just 9mg (won't need it high-dose anymore I've come off the benzo dependency!) but would you advice I resume the 300mg Pregnenolone and 14mg DHEA I take weekly while I try T.?

Much appreciated.
 

R J

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Water is part of the strength of muscles.
Muscles are 70% water.
Water counts, it's not like it has to be discarded and not taken into consideration of the progress made with AAS.

I don’t know really, I know losing “gains” is an issue with coming off all cycles. I have to experiment myself to know the reality. The look on the right dose of testosterone is appealing though. I might try TRT again at some point. I’m more interested in less or non-aromatizing gear now
 
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SonOfEurope

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BTW,

I'm not interested in going up to "pro" doses just something in the 140 - 210mg a week just to see how I do it, would you advice arimidex as the best AI?
 

R J

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BTW,

I'm not interested in going up to "pro" doses just something in the 140 - 210mg a week just to see how I do it, would you advice arimidex as the best AI?

Use aromasin. You might not need AI on 140mg, I never did. But I never took blood tests while on so it might not have been optimal. I personally didn’t notice much benefit on 140mg per week compared to ~550-600ng/dL natty. I felt better on vitamin k2 high doses with oral pregnenolone 10mg 3-5x per day.
 
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