Sedentary Steroid Users Grow Double The Rate Of Natural Bodybuilders

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by DaveFoster, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) increase fat free mass and promote muscle growth. Steroid users can train harder, recover faster, and reap the benefits of increased muscle protein synthesis for every workout session.

    This study demonstrates that even remaining sedentary and taking AAS yields better muscle growth than a bodybuilding training regimen without AAS.

    The take-away: optimize your hormonal levels and raise your testosterone to a maximum healthy level to maximize your genetic potential and muscle gains in the gym, and consider doing so prior to working out.

    Thyroid (T3) or progesterone inhibits aromatase and can discourage estrogen conversion (through aromatization) and can increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis, where pregnenolone, DHEA or directly testosterone will promote anabolism and muscle recovery.

    "We randomly assigned 43 normal men to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise, testosterone with no exercise, placebo plus exercise, and testosterone plus exercise. The men received injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo weekly for 10 weeks. The men in the exercise groups performed standardized weight-lifting exercises three times weekly. Before and after the treatment period, fat-free mass was determined by underwater weighing, muscle size was measured by magnetic resonance imaging, and the strength of the arms and legs was assessed by bench-press and squatting exercises, respectively.

    Among the men in the no-exercise groups, those given testosterone had greater increases than those given placebo in muscle size in their arms (mean [±SE] change in triceps area, 424±104 vs. -81±109 mm2; P<0.05) and legs (change in quadriceps area, 607±123 vs. -131±111 mm2; P<0.05) and greater increases in strength in the bench-press (9±4 vs. -1±1 kg, P<0.05) and squatting exercises (16±4 vs. 3±1 kg, P<0.05). The men assigned to testosterone and exercise had greater increases in fat-free mass (6.1±0.6 kg) and muscle size (triceps area, 501±104 mm2; quadriceps area, 1174±91 mm2) than those assigned to either no-exercise group, and greater increases in muscle strength (bench-press strength, 22±2 kg; squatting-exercise capacity, 38±4 kg) than either no-exercise group. Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group."

    • Group 1 (no exercise, natural) experienced no significant changes. No surprise there.
    • Group 2 (no exercise, drug use) was able to build about 7 pounds of muscle. That’s not a typo. The group receiving testosterone injections and NOT working out at all gained 7 pounds of muscle.
    • Group 3 (exercise, natural) was able to build about 4 pounds of muscle.
    • Group 4 (exercise, drug use) was able to build about 13 pounds of muscle.
    Summary taken from Steroids vs Natural: The Muscle Building Effects Of Steroid Use

    Reference: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101
     
  2. Dhair

    Dhair Member

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    No surprise here but 600mg/week is quite a lot, even for a study like this. I'm averaging 125mg weekly right now with no estrogenic sides so far (knock on wood)...
     
  3. OP
    DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    It's also important to note that, especially with a high dosage like that, some of the weight will be from estrogen conversion and increased water retention.
     
  4. Dhair

    Dhair Member

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    Absolutely. I think it's excessive. Can you find any studies on DHT and grip strength? I know they're out there; I'm just too lazy to look for them.
     
  5. OP
    DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    LMGTFY

    Fourth link.
     
  6. Bodhi Marshall

    Bodhi Marshall Member

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    600mg a week is moderate, and mild exercise benefits everyone..the real problem with AAS is the peanut oil most of it comes with..orals are more hepotoxic and test depot is very expensive...Transdermal testosterone in massive amounts compared to recommended doses may be the way to go..anti aromatase is probably counterproductive but arimidex is best if you decide to go that route. IMO.
     
  7. milkbasedvegan

    milkbasedvegan Member

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    I’m always amazed that every. Single. Bodybuilder under the sun tests for E2 but doesn’t test for DHT even though this hormone (in excess) causes all kinds of metabolic issues from acne, hair loss, prostate hypertrophy to aggression etc. It’s funny. In a perfect world DHT and E2 balance out each other and this is why AIs dependence only show that the user is metabolically unhealthy (ie. Aromatization is out of control)

    that said, it’s obvious that some of the weight is glycogen and water but that’s still a large difference considering that training also increases cell swelling and glycogen retention. So it’s water gains in both groups.

    I’ve been looking for studies that Broderick Chavez has been mentioning on YouTube by the way - apparently steroids elicit a maximal hypertrophy response with efforts as low as 30% of 1rm. I mean I’ve seen it in real life from pros doing sets of 30-50 reps with 25lbs on the preacher curl, but I somehow doubted it myself and never really gave it a try. Whereas it’s utterly pointless to try training this way naturally as Ray or anyone would confirm.

    I’m positive pushups and single leg squats would make anyone swole on a quarantine blast. Most guys are addicted to big numbers tho so that’s unlikely to be an experiment
     
  8. Mattlebl

    Mattlebl Member

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    Thanks very interesting article. I just start my new Anavar cycle.
     
  9. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Pavel Tsatsouline talked about this relatively recently. He claims it's sort of a slow-twitch fiber hypertrophy, using 10-40% RM for upper body and 30-70% for lower body. I think he talks about it in his newest book as well (The Quick and the Dead) but I don't remember exactly as I read the book and a 4 part series of articles titled "How to Build Your Slow Fibers" at the same time, so I might be mixing them up a bit in my head. He even mentions preacher curls in the article.

    How to Build Your Slow Fibers, Part I | StrongFirst
    "Besides, with the exception of the back squat, Prof. Selouyanov favors isolation bodybuilding exercises for ST hypertrophy. Among those he recommends to elite wrestlers are preacher curls and skull crushers!"
     
  10. milkboi

    milkboi Member

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    @charlie He always does those types of comments. Comments with a link, replies to the original comment and then plugs in a link for some shady steroid market website. Seems fishy
     
  11. TheSir

    TheSir Member

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    Just goes to show that natural bodybuilding is more about improving overall health than it is about lifting weights. When the hormonal status improves, putting on additional muscle becomes nearly effortless.
     
  12. takx12

    takx12 New Member

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    How can you tell that they actually gained more muscles and that it isn't just mostly water weight?

    I can't find anything about estrogen or aromatase inhibitors in this study. Is there a way to read the full paper? Or does someone know if they controlled estrogen?

    Also a longer study would definitely show that this gains without exercise will stop pretty fast. In my opinion this is just the body adjusting to higher testosterone levels, which leads to more muscle mass. Once your body hast adjusted the gains will stop without exercise.

    The conclusion is bull**** in my opinion, when we talk about long term
     
  13. lewisgideon

    lewisgideon New Member

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    Thanks very interesting article. I just start my new Anavar cycle.
     
  14. milkboi

    milkboi Member

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    Please tell me you are not using Var on its own, without a T base
     
  15. Fidelio

    Fidelio Member

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    LBM gain isn’t muscle. They put on a **** load of water due to MR fuckery and increasing levels of e2 in a dose dependant manner.
     
  16. Jing

    Jing Member

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    Tbh in my experience steroids are better for maintaining muscle I doubt someone taking steroids and not working out is going to produce much muscle, maybe if you have like no muscle on you on the first place but I haven't just gained more muscle from just being on testosterone.
     
  17. lewisgideon

    lewisgideon New Member

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    No No. Do not worry. I do everything under the supervision of my doc
     
  18. SonOfEurope

    SonOfEurope Member

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    Interesting study Dave,,

    Only partly related: One of the main things you notice when using anabolic substances is the increase in shoulder and trapezium muscle, and they are also the muscles you waste most when Estrogen is elevated.

    Cortisol and Estrogen opposition. Women have a much harder time developing the shoulder and trapezious than us men.

    I have been taking 28mg Progesterone for two years, with DHEA for the past 5, I had worked out before and gained some muscle but what I've noticed (strikingly) while training while under progesterone and DHEA is the increase in Shoulder and back muscle... They must be the ones with the most glucocorticoid receptors so much that you can spot a heavy Roid-head by the disproportional large deltoids and traps most times.
     
  19. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Well, this study was twenty weeks, and showed more than double the muscle growth that than the 10 week study at 600mg-

    Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men - PubMed

    17.3 pounds of muscle growth in 20 weeks using 600mg Testosterone with no training.
     
  20. R J

    R J Member

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    I’m too lazy to read the paper. Do they actually differentiate between water retention and lean tissue growth?
     
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