Seborrheic Dermatitis Upon Peating

[j.]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Yes, I take haiduts vitamin mix and eating plenty of liver and pastured eggs. I knew it would take 2-3 days for the dermatitis to show up and sure enough it did. And it will probably take 2-3 days for it to go away when I start taking the B6 again.

Are both vitamins (A and B6) able to stop your dandruff by taking just one of them in sufficient amounts?

 

[charlie]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

No, I have never been able to stop it with vitamin A.

 

[j.]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

No, I have never been able to stop it with vitamin A.

Interesting, mine stops completely with vitamin A. There is a drastic reduction in 4 hours, and if it doesn't end completely I take more till it ends. That said, when I sunbathe and do red light I take between 100,000 and 200,000 IU daily.

 

[charlie]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

I never went about above 20,000 IU of the vitamin A.

 

[j.]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

I never went about 20,000 IU of the vitamin A.

Probably a good call. I don't want to encourage anyone to take a lot.

I take a lot but I might have an usually high level of vitamin D and exposure to light because I am in the sun and do the light therapy every day. I just think I have high vitamin D, I haven't tested it.

Maybe I would need less if I took vitamin E.

 

[Kappytal]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Hi,
I found these quotations from Peat in Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress. Might help shed some light on why Charlie needs so much B6 to control his seborrheic dermatitis.

"Riboflavin, vitamin B2, is an essential component of the mitochondrial respiratory enzymes, and it is very easily destroyed by light (blue light and especially ultraviolet). When it is excited by high energy light, it can spread the damage to other components of the mitochondria, including the cytochromes and the polyunsaturated fatty acids. The other B vitamins are affected when riboflavin's actions are disturbed."

"Estrogen's most immediate effect on cells is to alter their oxidative metabolism. It promotes the formation of lactic acid. In the long run, it increases the nutritional requirements for the B vitamins, as well as for other vitamins. It also increases the formation of aminolevulinic acid, a precursor of porphyrin, and increases the risk of excess porphyrin increasing light sensitivity"

"...nutritional requirements are strongly influenced by history and present circumstances. For example, when corneal mitochondria have been damaged by riboflavin deficiency, they have been found to subsequently require more than the normal amount of the vitamin to function properly. And the presence of a certain amount of one nutrient often increases or decreases the amount of other nutrients needed."

I know that seborrheic dermatitis is not the same as rosacea, but the two commonly occur together, and they both seem to be related to B vitamin deficiency. This website explains the mainstream view on the relationship anyway, http://www.rosacea.org/patients/seborrhea.php. The above quotes may explain why seborrheic dermatitis occurs commonly with Rosacea. In Rosacea the action of estrogen reduces the availability of oxogen, meaning that more riboflavin is needed by the mitochondria to ensure sufficient energy production. This need for riboflavin may throw the balance of the other B vitmins out, and result in the deficency (or inability to use, not sure which) of B6. Hence seborrheic dermatitis developes. And if the effect of estrogen is prolonged, the quantites of B6 necessary to correct the seborrheic dermatitis would increase. I guess estrogen can effect the body's use of B vitamins even without Rosacea deveoping too.

If anyone has a better explanation, happy to hear it. This just seems possible to me.

 

[Kray]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Hi,
I found these quotations from Peat in Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress. Might help shed some light on why Charlie needs so much B6 to control his seborrheic dermatitis.

"Riboflavin, vitamin B2, is an essential component of the mitochondrial respiratory enzymes, and it is very easily destroyed by light (blue light and especially ultraviolet). When it is excited by high energy light, it can spread the damage to other components of the mitochondria, including the cytochromes and the polyunsaturated fatty acids. The other B vitamins are affected when riboflavin's actions are disturbed."

"Estrogen's most immediate effect on cells is to alter their oxidative metabolism. It promotes the formation of lactic acid. In the long run, it increases the nutritional requirements for the B vitamins, as well as for other vitamins. It also increases the formation of aminolevulinic acid, a precursor of porphyrin, and increases the risk of excess porphyrin increasing light sensitivity"

"...nutritional requirements are strongly influenced by history and present circumstances. For example, when corneal mitochondria have been damaged by riboflavin deficiency, they have been found to subsequently require more than the normal amount of the vitamin to function properly. And the presence of a certain amount of one nutrient often increases or decreases the amount of other nutrients needed."

I know that seborrheic dermatitis is not the same as rosacea, but the two commonly occur together, and they both seem to be related to B vitamin deficiency. This website explains the mainstream view on the relationship anyway, http://www.rosacea.org/patients/seborrhea.php. The above quotes may explain why seborrheic dermatitis occurs commonly with Rosacea. In Rosacea the action of estrogen reduces the availability of oxogen, meaning that more riboflavin is needed by the mitochondria to ensure sufficient energy production. This need for riboflavin may throw the balance of the other B vitmins out, and result in the deficency (or inability to use, not sure which) of B6. Hence seborrheic dermatitis developes. And if the effect of estrogen is prolonged, the quantites of B6 necessary to correct the seborrheic dermatitis would increase. I guess estrogen can effect the body's use of B vitamins even without Rosacea deveoping too.

If anyone has a better explanation, happy to hear it. This just seems possible to me.

Thanks, some good considerations. Certainly the working of the vitamins synergistically is known, and Peat is big on some of the B's for some of these reasons. Would these actions also apply to atopic dermatitis, another supposed "autoimmune disorder"?

 

[Kappytal]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Hi Classicallady,

I wish I knew more about eczema/atropic dermatitis, as i have had problems with it for my whole life. Personally I think it probably is related to Rosacea and Seborrheic Dermatitis, but I do not have very strong evidence for this. When I read Peat's article on Rosacea I knew straight away that I was in the risk category for developing it as I got older, and I have struggled with eczema continuously and seborrheic dermatitis occassionaly. I have been reading about b vitamins for skin health, as i have had little luck improving the mild acne I suffer from with nutrisorb a or liver. The wikipedia article on Vitamin B6 lists a number of general skin complaints (quite a few of which I have had a one time or other) as symptoms of deficiency. Interestingly, it also says that corticosteroids may increase risk of deficiency. I believe that most people who suffer from eczema are prescribed a topical corticosteroid cream to treat it. I believe that I used Hydrocortisone cream for a long time for eczema. I threw all my creams out when I started peating though, so I can't confirm exactly what it was. I will have to give the idea of autoimmune diseases some thought, but it is interesting that cortisol seems to be involved in Cushing's syndrome. Wikipedia lists vulnerability to infection as a possible side effect of corticosteroid use (can't tell if this includes topical use). That might have something to do with the immune system generally, and Peat says that antibiotics or speeding gastro intestinal transit time can help rosacea. Also, Wikipedia says treatment with topical steroids can worsen rosecea. So I am getting a general feeling that a compromised immune system and cortisol are involved. Will continue to think about all this.

Any better information appreciated.

 

[Kray]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Kappytal,

It sounds like we've had similar problems with steroid use. Although I don't have reason to suspect Cushing's, it's interesting that I'm having chronic skin problems. Could my body be detoxing from steroid use years ago? Or cortisol levels out of control because of thyroid imbalance? Is this why dry skin/eczema is often noted as low thyroid symptoms?

So, I don't know what thyroid might do to take and see if this helps balance/lower cortisol?

 

[Kappytal]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you. At the moment I am just trying all the broad spectrum things, because I don't know anything more specific that will work. I am taking thyroid and progesterone, and trying to eat lots of vitamins and sugar, and carrot salad. Because these skin problems are all fairly general symptoms I think it is a sign that our bodies are stressed. At the moment we might be stuck in the stress response. I think in the long run improving metabolism, progesterone to estrogen ratio, reducing stress hormones and keeping gut bacteria down will help. Once body has enough energy it should get on to repairing skin.

Although I don't have reason to suspect Cushing's, it's interesting that I'm having chronic skin problems. Could my body be detoxing from steroid use years ago?

Have your symptoms recently become worse? Have you made any changes recently? I noticed once I stopped taking the pill my eczema became much worse for a while. I think the estrogen in the pill was suppressing my bodies inflammation reaction to it, just like the steroid creams suppress your bodies reaction and make the symptoms go away. Eventually it got a bit better, but it never went away fully. Then when I started peating it got much worse all of a sudden. Gradually it got better, and now I just have low grade persistant skin problems. I don't know whether I sped up my metabolism and ran out of vitamins, or if the extra sugar gave my body the energy to react to eczema again or what happened exactly. It might just have been stress from exams. Anyway, I have noticed that when I make changes that should be healthy long term I tend to get a period of worse symptoms before I see improvement.

 

[Kray]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

How very insightful! Yes, I agree with what you are saying. Your last paragraph-- bulls-eye! My skin issue has been varying since about a year ago, with the most pronounced in the past 2 months. The only thing I wonder about is pregnenolone. I was taking up to 300mg/day about 2 weeks ago, and have taken up to 100mg/day in the past 6 months at times, then backing off to let it work, thinking it would help balance those stress symptoms I was having. I've read over and over to find something that says pregnenolone can convert to the estrogen pathway, but nothing concrete. Who knows if it might in some people, like me? I've also wondered about too much sugar and candida, but I think RP has discounted that, and as you say, the more the better when it comes to sugar (although maybe for some sugar is more problematic than fruits).

I'm going to try thyroid (again!) to try to address the problem. Please let's keep in touch since we're having the same problems and our profiles with metabolism seem to be very similar. Thanks for your feedback, very helpful!

 

[Kray]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Oh yes, and progesterone. I'm resisting the temptation, but I'm going to keep taking it twice a day (I don't cycle anymore-- in menopause-- but we're always stressed and I think my body needs it).

 

[Adnada]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Update:

Charlie, you were right! My SB seems to be caused by inadequate B6. I have done some experimenting, and while I may be a little low on several B's without supplementation, the B6 seems to be the SB cause. It showed up for the first time in my life upon Peat eating and thyroid supplementation, and when I recently upped my Cynoplus dose, the SB flared up, as my dietary nutrition did not keep up with my increased metabolism.

I had been concerned about a negative reaction to Nutrisorb A, but it is not a problem for me.

 

[charlie]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Adnada, great news!

Now that I have introduced lisuride I can barely keep up with my B6 needs. It's quite incredible.

 

[Adnada]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

How very insightful! Yes, I agree with what you are saying. Your last paragraph-- bulls-eye! My skin issue has been varying since about a year ago, with the most pronounced in the past 2 months. The only thing I wonder about is pregnenolone. I was taking up to 300mg/day about 2 weeks ago, and have taken up to 100mg/day in the past 6 months at times, then backing off to let it work, thinking it would help balance those stress symptoms I was having. I've read over and over to find something that says pregnenolone can convert to the estrogen pathway, but nothing concrete. Who knows if it might in some people, like me? I've also wondered about too much sugar and candida, but I think RP has discounted that, and as you say, the more the better when it comes to sugar (although maybe for some sugar is more problematic than fruits).

I'm going to try thyroid (again!) to try to address the problem. Please let's keep in touch since we're having the same problems and our profiles with metabolism seem to be very similar. Thanks for your feedback, very helpful!

Hi classicallady,
In this interview https://dl.dropbox.com/u/68870/Ray-Peat ... rmones.mp3, Ray says that pregnenalone will reduce stress hormones without altering other hormones, while DHEA can convert into estrogen. He personally took very high doses of pregnenalone over the period of a year without negative effects. I also have found no claims of pregnenalone conversion in any of his articles ( I have searched), so I don't think that that occurs. If you find anything that shows otherwise, please share! Pregnenalone is the next supplement I'll be adding to my regimen.

 

[Adnada]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Adnada, great news!

Now that I have introduced lisuride I can barely keep up with my B6 needs. It's quite incredible.

Lisuride is a new one to me, looks very interesting! Oh, the research is endless!

 

[charlie]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Indeed it is. I got a list of things I want to try. Just gotta win that lottery first.

 

[Adnada]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Indeed it is. I got a list of things I want to try. Just gotta win that lottery first.

No kidding! Do you get blood work done to help determine what you've got going on, or do you base it on symptoms/research? Also, how many different supplements do you currently take?

 

[charlie]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

I go on symptoms/research. I take B1, niacinamide, aspirin, B6, haiduts vitamin mix, cascara, thyroid supplement. Can't remember anything else right now but that should be about it.

 

[Kray]

Re: Seborrheic dermititis upon Peating

Hi classicallady,
In this interview https://dl.dropbox.com/u/68870/Ray-Peat ... rmones.mp3, Ray says that pregnenalone will reduce stress hormones without altering other hormones, while DHEA can convert into estrogen. He personally took very high doses of pregnenalone over the period of a year without negative effects. I also have found no claims of pregnenalone conversion in any of his articles ( I have searched), so I don't think that that occurs. If you find anything that shows otherwise, please share! Pregnenalone is the next supplement I'll be adding to my regimen.[/quote]

Adnada,

I appreciate your responding to my post. Thanks for the link. I will have to make time to hear it. I'm sure I've read Peat to say the same thing about pregnenolone. I've just ordered Haidut's StressNon, do you know about it? It's very pure, and suspended in oil, much like Progest-E delivery. I think you can take it orally or topically. Haven't been able to find anywhere on the forum feedback using it, esp if one delivery or the other is preferable. Anyone out there who can answer?

I get confused with all the supplements, but does pregnenolone require additional calorie intake, like thyroid?
I'll keep looking out for any information on the conversion issue.