Seborrheic Dermatitis Also Yeast Infection Of The Mouth

[charlie]

Sincerely appreciate any help I can get on this.

Having a huge outbreak of seborrheic dermatitis. Anyone dealt with this and do you have any suggestions on how to remedy it?

Also have a pretty bad yeast infection of the mouth that just started up. Tongue is yellow and starting to get that cutup feeling to it. Ray Peat said to touch it with flowers of sulfur so looking for a source on that right now.

 

[gabriel79]

Hi Charlie,
I've suffered from seborrheic dermatitis for like 8 years. After 5 years of Peating I'm still dealing with it, though it's more controlled now. For the outbreaks, I use a paste I did myself of zinc oxide and a bit of coconut oil. The paste is heavy so I use it only at nights. After a couple of days of using it, the dermatitis clears away. Don't know how difficult it may be to get zinc oxide over there.

 

[charlie]

Gabriel, thank you for taking the time to answer.

5 years on Peat and still having to deal with it! Gosh! Sorry to hear that for you, and for me. I would have thought that 5 years on Peat you would have definitely been able to squash something like that. Have you been seriously Peating or kinda going about it not so seriously?

I will check into some zinc oxide, thank you. I use to have only small patches of this, but now, after this darn antibiotic, its running rampant. And, it burns at times, especially when I shower. Ugggh.

 

[gabriel79]

Well, I've definitely been low PUFA for 5 years. Then, well, I was eating higher fat than now (imagine a WAPF-low PUFA version kind of diet). And not paying much attention to some points, like the tryptophan. I still have my share of starches, especially potatoes, mostly because of budget. So, no, I wouldn't call my diet 100% Peat and in the past a bit less so.

BTW, I didn't mention but the zinc oxide paste is to apply on your patches, right? You don't wanna eat that stuff!

 

[charlie]

You should definitely have a lot less PUFA storage by now.

Yes, I had assumed it was a paste for topical.

Just started researching this SD, seems it is caused by a fungus.

 

[charlie]

Dang antibiotic really messed me up.


Anyways, I found this:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index. ... try2694259

Z Hautkr. 1986 Apr 1;61(7):451- 4.Links
[Reflections on seborrheic scalp eczema and psoriasis capillitii
in relation to intestinal mycoses]
Menzel I, Holzmann H.
"Stool samples of patients suffering from seborrheic eczema of the
scalp, psoriasis capitis, or seborrhiasis were investigated. All
patients revealed pathological flora of the bowel to a high degree,
predominantly pathogenic yeasts. Therapy of the intestine seems to be
of good influence to the skin disease as well."

Also in allergic people tested, they almost always find a lack of , or
none whatsoever, of "good" bifidobacterium species in the gut. These
probiotics produce acetic acid byproducts(among others) and as we know
the acetic acid is a killer of some pathogenic yeasts.

So, by taking vinegar(acetic acid) you may restore a good bowel flora
and therefore restore immunity and have a therapeutic effect on SD.
Once you stop it is likely the symptoms will return, unless you
somehow manage to restore the bifidobacterium permanently. In SD
people there is some underlying reason(genetic? ) why these
bifidobacterium cannot seem to take hold and predominate.

 

[charlie]

Therapeutic and prophylactic effects of crude honey on chronic seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff.

Al-Waili NS.

Dubai Specialised Medical Centre and Medical Research Labs, P.O.Box 19964, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. [email protected]

Honey has antibacterial, antifungal and antioxidants activities and has high nutrient value. In this study we investigated the potential use of topical application of crude honey in the management of seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. Thirty patients with chronic seborrheic dermatitis of scalp, face and front of chest were entered for study. Twenty patients were males and 10 were females, their ages ranged between 15 and 60 years. The patients had scaling, itching and hair loss. The lesions were scaling macules, papules and dry white plaques with crust and fissures. The patients were asked to apply diluted crude honey (90% honey diluted in warm water) every other day on the lesions with gentle rubbing for 2-3 mins. Honey was left for 3 hr before gentle rinsing with warm water. The patients were followed daily for itching, scaling, hair loss and the lesions were examined. Treatment was continued for 4 weeks. The improved patients were included in a prophylactic phase, lasting six months. Half patients were treated with the topical honey once weekly and the other half served as control. All the patients responded markedly with application of honey. Itching was relieved and scaling was disappeared within one week. Skin lesions were healed and disappeared completely within 2 weeks. In addition, patients showed subjective improvement in hair loss. None of the patients ( 15 patients) treated with honey application once weekly for six months showed relapse while the 12/15 patients who had no prophylactic treatment with honey experienced a relapse of the lesions 2-4 months after stopping treatment. It might be concluded that crude honey could markedly improve seborrheic dermatitis and associated hair loss and prevent relapse when applied weekly.

 

[charlie]

Seems a lot of people get this after a round of antibiotics, especially minocycline.

 

[Ingenol]

If you have a fungal infection the coconut oil is a good suggestion as it has known anti-fungal properties.

Also, please be careful! It seems as if your antibiotic experiment may be causing some serious health problems! Peat does seem to favor this "sterile gut" idea but I think he would admit there is still very much to be learned about the role of gut bacteria in human digestion and health. What we do know is that it can be extremely difficult to repopulate gut flora, so please proceed with caution for your own sake!

 

[charlie]

Ingenol, thank you for the coconut oil suggestion.

Yes, the antibiotic experiment is definitely backfiring.

Any ideas on how to repopulate the gut?

 

[gabriel79]

Thanks for the tips, Charlie. I'll try the honey and think what I can do regarding intestinal bacteria. Do you know the Yakult product?(a Japanese fermented milk sold worldwide) It seems to increase the number of bifidobacteria. I've never tried it, but I may. I know Peat is not a promoter of probiotics, but then even him says that if you live out of a sterile capsule, you need to deal with bacteria.

 

[j.]

Get someone who poops well and do a fecal transplant.










(sorry, this is probably not funny)

 

[charlie]

Thanks for the tips, Charlie. I'll try the honey and think what I can do regarding intestinal bacteria. Do you know the Yakult product?(a Japanese fermented milk sold worldwide) It seems to increase the number of bifidobacteria. I've never tried it, but I may. I know Peat is not a promoter of probiotics, but then even him says that if you live out of a sterile capsule, you need to deal with bacteria.

Yes, I have heard of it. Not sure I can get it where I live though.

Get someone who poops well and do a fecal transplant.

I honestly would do that if I had a healthy donor but I do not know of any healthy people around me. Uggh.

 

[Wilfrid]

Hi Charlie,

Try to get some sea salt (like celtic sea salt) and mix around two tablespoons of it with one liter of water ( if you can get some Volvic it would be perfect, if not, just tap water.) and rinse your hairs with this lotion and leave it on.
For your face, proceed carefully with a clean tissue soaked with the lotion on the scaly, red patches and do not rinse.
I hope that this could do the trick for you.
In France such natural treatment give a really good result because, here, the M.D send people with SD near the sea where they can get huge benefit from the sea water.They need to bath their entire body in the sea and don't shower after the bath. Dunno why (iodine, may be the sodium content...) but it works!!
For the probiotics, the natren brand ( the bifidobacteria's line) would be good. This is the only one that helped me a lot during my worse flare up of crohn's ( for me, the large intestine.).I know that we are all different regarding intestinal flora but you may want to try it. Hope that help.

 

[charlie]

Wilfrid, thank you very much I will look into that.

Found this on the wikipedia page:

Phototherapy

Some dermatologists recommend photodynamic therapy using UV-A and UV-B laser or red and blue LED light to inhibit the growth of Malassezia fungus and reduce seborrhoeic inflammation

 

[charlie]

Saw reports online that aspirin makes seborrheic dermatitis worse. For me, this is a fact. Not sure why it happens, but when I take aspirin my seborrheic dermatitis gets much worse.

 

[Big White Mint]

New Peat eater here, but I've had some experience with SD and other skin conditions. Here's what I know...stay away from steroids at all cost. They will do more harm than good in the long run (thinning skin, rebound effect). SD is often thought to be caused by a kind of yeast, but doesn't seem to be implicated in all people. That said, Nizoral, an anti-yeast shampoo, is extremely effective in cases where it is implicated. It works great on the scalp and body. It can work well on the face too, but the ingredients can be irritating on delicate facial skin.

I had a flare up on my scalp and face several months ago. The Nizoral knocked it out on the scalp and did some good on the face, but I couldn't stand to keep using it on my face. I did more research and found this article about glycerin - http://news.georgiahealth.edu/archives/139. The research described in it suggests that glyercin in high enough concentrations may have a signaling effect that tells the skin to stop growing so fast. I reasoned that perhaps people that get SD have skin that simply turns over at a rate that ends up overfeeding the yeast (that all people have on their skin) or other baddies, which causes the yeast to excrete excessive waste and leads to irritation.

So, I picked up a bottle of glycerin from the local pharmacy and mixed some of it in a bottle with distilled water in a 1:5 ratio (the research suggests it has to be 15% or higher). You have to shake before each use. I started applying it to my face and my hands where I had smaller patches of eczema for three years. Feels runny and a little sticky, but it does absorb.

Within a week, the rash on my hands was gone. My face started to improve immediately. I get almost no flaking now and most of the redness is gone (still have some pink spots). I don't itch at all.

Some finer points:
- Some researchers believe glycerin draws water from either the air or lower levels of the skin to do it's job. Make sure you are hydrated. A humidifier here and there can't hurt.
- You can add some allantoin in the mix to cool irritation. I started doing this about a month ago. You need .5% to 2% in the solution.
- I don't know what the nutritional relationship is here. I've gotten SD all my life and have been on various diets - SAD, vegetarian, veggies and lean meats, Paleo/Primal. I've taken probiotics for years. I'm inclined to think that people with SD turn over skin cells faster than others on average, but not sure what the cause of this could be. Perhaps it's simply normal variation.
- Some people say vegetable glycerin is better than animal (which you normally find in pharmacies). I've used both and haven't noticed a difference. The latter is cheaper.
- You could add a few drops of tea tree oil or manuka oil, both anti-yeast, to the mixture. I tend to add a drop in my hand with the mixture here and there (like every 10 days or so). This will decimate the bacteria on your skin too, which may be good or bad depending on what the ecosystem on your face is like. I would leave it out and see how the mixture works on its own first.

Anyway, I use my mixture on every skin irritation or itch I get, including my scalp. Haven't had any rashes return in a big way. Sometimes I'll notice a bit of redness, but it will be squashed within a day. I consider this the best skin care discovery I've made. I used to have a whole routine for my face - cleanser, toner, moisturizer, sometimes acids. Now I just use a cotton pad to wipe it down with distilled water, apply my mixture, and go. This has given me far better results than lathering on expensive and potentially allergenic products.

 

[charlie]

Big White Mint, welcome to the forum!

Thank you for posting that info up! I actually saw a bottle of glycerin at the pharmacy yesterday. Not sure if glycerin is Peat approved though. I will have to look into that.

See you around!

 

[Big White Mint]

Whatever you find out, please post to this thread again Charlie. I have a hard time imagining Dr. Peat objecting to glycerin used topically, but who knows. It is an ingredient in some soaps and many moisturizers, so you may already be using it (though the concentration in those products is too small to produce the therapeutic effects described above).

 

[charlie]

Will do.

I am finding that coconut oil works pretty good for the SB.