Seasonal Affective Disorder - How To ?

[Bogdar]

Hey, I didn't have a proper diagnostic, but I clearly noticed that every year for years now I have a crash near December - January - February. By crash I mean a depressed feeling, it's usually the time of the year where all my projects stop, ambitions, sports etc etc. (it's tough to live because everything is discontinued for months and I didnt know why until now)

I read about bright light therapy. But there's also red light therapy which from what I read on this forum is as well anti depressant etc. Should I try both, only one ?

I'd like to hear from people who tried BLT, and from people who get depressed in winter if I'm not the only alien, what are your solutions ? I'd like to live my first happy disease free winter lol. In my years of "testing", I've already try strict dieting, intense sports, or full rest no sports, stimulants like coffee, partying a lot, not partying at all... Nothing ever changed these crashes !

Thanks

 

[tankasnowgod]

Hey, I didn't have a proper diagnostic, but I clearly noticed that every year for years now I have a crash near December - January - February. By crash I mean a depressed feeling, it's usually the time of the year where all my projects stop, ambitions, sports etc etc. (it's tough to live because everything is discontinued for months and I didnt know why until now)

I read about bright light therapy. But there's also red light therapy which from what I read on this forum is as well anti depressant etc. Should I try both, only one ?

I'd like to hear from people who tried BLT, and from people who get depressed in winter if I'm not the only alien, what are your solutions ? I'd like to live my first happy disease free winter lol. In my years of "testing", I've already try strict dieting, intense sports, or full rest no sports, stimulants like coffee, partying a lot, not partying at all... Nothing ever changed these crashes !

Thanks

Planning ahead, huh? Nice.

I have used the Blue Light boxes in the past. Specifically, when I worked an early morning shift. I did notice that it made me more awake and alert after 15-30 minutes of use. The it seemed to work for a few months, so as far as SAD goes, it could be quite helpful. But I was on that shift for a long time, and it just couldn't keep up. I stopped using it after the initial few months, and didn't go back.

One thing I did notice at the time is that it hurt the eyes. You aren't supposed to look directly at it, but are supposed to let some "blue light" into your eyes.

If you do use some of the blue light boxes, I think using red light along with it is a really good idea, to limit any blue light damage. Maybe just get some mixed red/blue grow lights. Most of the grow lights seem to have 4-5 Red LEDs for every Blue LED. That ratio seems about right.

I think using Red Light on it's own is fine, but would only recommend Blue Light use in conjunction with Red Light.

The older SAD lights were just lots of really bright light (like, 10,000 lux or so). I think they tended to work better, and just getting a lot of bright incandescents in your work space would probably be quite effective, several members report that.

 

[Bogdar]

Planning ahead, huh? Nice.

I have used the Blue Light boxes in the past. Specifically, when I worked an early morning shift. I did notice that it made me more awake and alert after 15-30 minutes of use. The it seemed to work for a few months, so as far as SAD goes, it could be quite helpful. But I was on that shift for a long time, and it just couldn't keep up. I stopped using it after the initial few months, and didn't go back.

One thing I did notice at the time is that it hurt the eyes. You aren't supposed to look directly at it, but are supposed to let some "blue light" into your eyes.

If you do use some of the blue light boxes, I think using red light along with it is a really good idea, to limit any blue light damage. Maybe just get some mixed red/blue grow lights. Most of the grow lights seem to have 4-5 Red LEDs for every Blue LED. That ratio seems about right.

I think using Red Light on it's own is fine, but would only recommend Blue Light use in conjunction with Red Light.

The older SAD lights were just lots of really bright light (like, 10,000 lux or so). I think they tended to work better, and just getting a lot of bright incandescents in your work space would probably be quite effective, several members report that.

Indeed, I noticed the days getting shorter !
Well, if 10k lux old SAD lights work better, why not use them instead of blue light box ?
thanks

 

[Tristan Loscha]

How is your Vitamin D? I saw reports of considerably lowered Nerve Growth Factors at the end of autumn and winter. You should aim for 50 to 70 ng/ml, in my opinion. There is literature which shows effectivity in SAD. Lightboxes should be a neutral white light and be powered with 20000 LUX at the recommended distance.

 

[Bogdar]

How is your Vitamin D? I saw reports of considerably lowered Nerve Growth Factors at the end of autumn and winter. You should aim for 50 to 70 ng/ml, in my opinion. There is literature which shows effectivity in SAD. Lightboxes should be a neutral white light and be powered with 20000 LUX at the recommended distance.

Last time I checked was low, and was probably kinda low all these years ! I was 21ng/mL same month of last year. I was going to do a D + PTH bloodtest in the following week. I wouldn't be surprised if it was aggravated by low D status !

 

[Forumer1]

Last time I checked was low, and was probably kinda low all these years ! I was 21ng/mL same month of last year. I was going to do a D + PTH bloodtest in the following week. I wouldn't be surprised if it was aggravated by low D status !

Hi- read one of your old posts in 2018 where you said you felt amazing and you attributed it to you being on a carnivore diet. Are you still on the carnivore diet these days? I assume no, and if it’s the case, what made you quit it? I’m not for the carnivore, nor against it, but curious to hear about your experience!

 

[tankasnowgod]

Indeed, I noticed the days getting shorter !

Yeah, they get shorter after the solstice. But usually, it's not till after the equinox that SAD comes into play.

 

[Forumer1]

How is your Vitamin D? I saw reports of considerably lowered Nerve Growth Factors at the end of autumn and winter. You should aim for 50 to 70 ng/ml, in my opinion. There is literature which shows effectivity in SAD. Lightboxes should be a neutral white light and be powered with 20000 LUX at the recommended distance.

What’s the best way to raise Vitamin D levels to above 50 units during the winter?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

What’s the best way to raise Vitamin D levels to above 50 units during the winter?

5000IU - 7500IU D3 oral.

 

[Bogdar]

Yeah, they get shorter after the solstice. But usually, it's not till after the equinox that SAD comes into play.

Yes it happens to me near the end of winter, but as you said I planned ahead, better get it while I'm still in a high energy state than when I'll already be depressed

Hi- read one of your old posts in 2018 where you said you felt amazing and you attributed it to you being on a carnivore diet. Are you still on the carnivore diet these days? I assume no, and if it’s the case, what made you quit it? I’m not for the carnivore, nor against it, but curious to hear about your experience!

Indeed... I'm not anymore on carnivore diet. Mind you I had to quit eat near end January or so (my winter depressed time) because of multiple bad things. It still is a bit of a mystery for me but as far as I can tell;
-I had some kind of intoxications with some low quality raw milk (usual brand wasnt there), intoxication not seen on bloodtest, no nausea... Just full liquid diarrhea for x days and impossible to digest any milk products afterward for weeks
- tired time from late winter
- exam times as well, I had to keep studying a tough year with constant diarrhea...
- so I went up on coffee ! Drank way too much with my poor intestines
- developped diziness symptoms, restlessness, insomnia... sleeping was tough
- slowly went into hell basically, I was feeling so bad H24, tired, irritable, poor skin, poor digestion, no sleep

I stopped it all before dying.
So it was not "because of" carnivore diet. I messed up, abused coffee, abused milk, during a stressful winter exam time. Then I changed my dieting habit and I'm not planning on going carnivore anymore, however I'm working on feeling the same way I used to during this diet. Felt so calm and so "manly" and so energetic, "dopamined" lol.

 

[Maljam]

I had some kind of intoxications with some low quality raw milk (usual brand wasnt there)

It feels like more and more frequently I am reading about gut infections like this one from drinking raw milk, I think this could have been where your issues started from. Although I think you wouldve run into problems eventually with carnivore.

 

[Bogdar]

How is your Vitamin D? I saw reports of considerably lowered Nerve Growth Factors at the end of autumn and winter. You should aim for 50 to 70 ng/ml, in my opinion. There is literature which shows effectivity in SAD. Lightboxes should be a neutral white light and be powered with 20000 LUX at the recommended distance.

I just received mines and 70ng/mL as you said is higher than the max range, I'm finally in the normal range tho, just a little bit !
Screenshot

However, I also measured my PTH because from Chris Masterjohn, vit D range was based upon its ability to lower PTH, so individually PTH was a good measure to decide wether your vit D status was adequate... I think I heard a few people here saying that PTH should be measured as well (and low with adequate D)
My PTH is quite in the end lower range
Screenshot

so it's not quite the subject of this thread but it makes me wonder should I supplement to reach confortable 100+ nmol/L vit D or does my PTH say "there's enough D" ?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I just received mines and 70ng/mL as you said is higher than the max range, I'm finally in the normal range tho, just a little bit !
Screenshot

However, I also measured my PTH because from Chris Masterjohn, vit D range was based upon its ability to lower PTH, so individually PTH was a good measure to decide wether your vit D status was adequate... I think I heard a few people here saying that PTH should be measured as well (and low with adequate D)
My PTH is quite in the end lower range
Screenshot

so it's not quite the subject of this thread but it makes me wonder should I supplement to reach confortable 100+ nmol/L vit D or does my PTH say "there's enough D" ?

The PTH can indicate something like sufficiency, but D has seemingly many functions separately from suppression of PTH, and Calcium also suppresses Parathormone via shared and individual mechanisms; i saw claims that all cause mortality is lowered in accordance with D levels as high as 70ng/ml.

 

[gately]

I think the old school 10,000 lux light boxes are really the best solution here. They are tried and true. My grandmother lived in New York her entire life and used one of those religiously throughout winter, about 20-30 minutes every morning. It kept the black dog away.

I once lived in this dark hole in the sky and finally experienced SAD myself. Thought I knew better than grandma and bought the dopest blue light (and red light) machines I could find. And I used incandescents in the apartment, because I’d read some comments here that that was probably all I needed. The blue light was just oddly stimulating and left me feeling mentally “off,” the incandescents helped but not nearly enough, and the red light, of course, barely did anything noticeable for the situation.

A regular old 10,000 lux one fixed it within days. Went from zero to hero. I highly recommend it.

 

[Peater]

Can anyone tell me how many watts these 10,000 lux SAD lamps use, and if it is just standard incandescent lamps? I am thinking of making something using floodlight lamps (500W). I already have a redlightman red light device and a 300W Osram ultra-Vitalux UV lamp, but I really, really hate winter and will need ammo.