Scalp Progesterone For Hair Loss Experiment

[Arrade]

Sites are saying it'll be available at the beginning of December. I plan on buying a few bottles, because it's going to sell out fast. I think it will probably at least halt hair loss, but I'll remain skeptical when it comes to regrowth.


Still blows my mind how we're about to be in 2019, and there is still no cure for this horrible disease. What a shame.

Meanwhile we know exactly why people get fat and have invented things like gastric bypass.

Ah ok, December ain’t bad.
I’m still holding out for the calcification theory

 

[Arrade]

Sites are saying it'll be available at the beginning of December. I plan on buying a few bottles, because it's going to sell out fast. I think it will probably at least halt hair loss, but I'll remain skeptical when it comes to regrowth.


Still blows my mind how we're about to be in 2019, and there is still no cure for this horrible disease. What a shame.

Meanwhile we know exactly why people get fat and have invented things like gastric bypass.

Ah ok, December ain’t bad.
I’m still holding out for the calcification theory and the supps, as increasing blood flow and stopping DHT (which I imagine just causes fibrosis) is the premise of the lotion

 

[xetawaves]

Meanwhile we know exactly why people get fat and have invented things like gastric bypass.

Ah ok, December ain’t bad.
I’m still holding out for the calcification theory

I was really hoping for that October release though, but I guess December it is lol

Something I find baffling about MPB is that it can stop for years on its own. Some guys can hit NW3 at 18 and it halt completely for years. I've read from several sources that most guys will never get past NW3 or 4 and that just because you have diffuse hair loss, it doesn't mean you'll hit NW7. Honestly, I think it all has to come down to a combination of skull shape and atherosclerosis. Cells on the scalp can't operate properly without sufficient blood and so the skin calcifies over time.

Something I have been focusing on lately is keeping my CO2 up. I drink sodium bicarbonate everyday and every couple hours I do deep, slow breathing.

 

[Arrade]

I was really hoping for that October release though, but I guess December it is lol

Something I find baffling about MPB is that it can stop for years on its own. Some guys can hit NW3 at 18 and it halt completely for years. I've read from several sources that most guys will never get past NW3 or 4 and that just because you have diffuse hair loss, it doesn't mean you'll hit NW7. Honestly, I think it all has to come down to a combination of skull shape and atherosclerosis.

Something I have been focusing on lately is keeping my CO2 up. I drink sodium bicarbonate everyday and every couple hours I do deep, slow breathing.

Try adding taurine 1 gram between your meals, so 3 grams a day.
Reduces endotoxins and fibrosis, it’s anti-inflammatory.

 

[xetawaves]

Try adding taurine 1 gram between your meals, so 3 grams a day.
Reduces endotoxins and fibrosis, it’s anti-inflammatory.

I took taurine for months and never really had much luck with it. I still have some. I feel like it made me shed a lot, but I might give it another shot.

 

[Progesterone]

I was really hoping for that October release though, but I guess December it is lol

Something I find baffling about MPB is that it can stop for years on its own. Some guys can hit NW3 at 18 and it halt completely for years. I've read from several sources that most guys will never get past NW3 or 4 and that just because you have diffuse hair loss, it doesn't mean you'll hit NW7. Honestly, I think it all has to come down to a combination of skull shape and atherosclerosis.

Something I have been focusing on lately is keeping my CO2 up. I drink sodium bicarbonate everyday and every couple hours I do deep, slow breathing.

Interesting, and.... drinking sodium bicard surely can't hurt that's for sure.

You still using prog?

I am drawn towards prog because I do feel like it IS anti-androgenic now... which technically should help.

That said I've gotten a taste of how high T feels on clomid and I swear, that maybe wasn't a good idea. I am craving that now.

The problem with clomid is that it may be too much of an antagonist on ER-beta (estrogen). ER-beta is good for hair.

I'm contemplating using estrogen cream on hairline (that same one whatevr recommended, that you can get on amazon) WITH clomid... that would be a first.

BTW, since using clomid my shedding is still VERY minimal, compared to before. Quite interesting. It does have a half life of 5 days but still, it's been well over that.

 

[xetawaves]

Interesting, and.... drinking sodium bicard surely can't hurt that's for sure.

You still using prog?

I am drawn towards prog because I do feel like it IS anti-androgenic now... which technically should help.

That said I've gotten a taste of how high T feels on clomid and I swear, that maybe wasn't a good idea. I am craving that now.

The problem with clomid is that it may be too much of an antagonist on ER-beta (estrogen). ER-beta is good for hair.

I'm contemplating using estrogen cream on hairline (that same one whatevr recommended, that you can get on amazon) WITH clomid... that would be a first.

BTW, since using clomid my shedding is still VERY minimal, compared to before. Quite interesting. It does have a half life of 5 days but still, it's been well over that.

I still use progesterone a few times a week, but just for general health. Mainly for its positive effects on the circulatory system. 24mg topically each time.

Sodium bicarbonate increases CO2 a lot, and high CO2 is good at preventing hair loss. Danny Roddy also has a video on CO2's relationship with male pattern baldness.
Maybe @Elephanto can chime in, he seems to know a lot about the subject.

As far as the clomid goes, I wouldn't mess with it anymore. I've only came across stories of it causing hair loss. I also think the topic would've came up in the online bodybuilding realm if it was good for hair, considering how popular the drug is in that community.

 

[Elephanto]

Sure, I'll quote some previous posts :

CO2 is an antagonist of Parathyroid Hormone for starter, which induces calcification. Protects against hypoxia which induces fibrosis.

Relaxes blood vessels and areas where blood doesn't flow properly start to calcify.

“The basic control of blood flow in the brain is the result of the relaxation of the wall of blood vessels in the presence of carbon dioxide, which is produced in proportion to the rate at which oxygen and glucose are being metabolically combined by active cells. In the inability of cells to produce CO2 at a normal rate, nitric oxide synthesis in blood vessels can cause them to dilate. The mechanism of relaxation by NO is very different, however, involving the inhibition of mitochondrial energy production (Barron, et al., 2001).

A quick reduction of carbon dioxide caused by hyperventilation can provoke an epileptic seizure, and can increase muscle spasms and vascular leakiness, and (by releasing serotonin and histamine) contribute to inflammation and clotting disorders. On a slightly longer time scale, a reduction of carbon dioxide can increase the production of lactic acid, which is a promoter of inflammation and fibrosis.

Serotonin causes systemic fibrosis (calcification), increases cortisol and prolactin. CO2 restricts it.

Reducing CO2 makes skin tissues take up calcium, while CO2 favors bone formation and keeps calcium in bones.

The “replicative lifespan” of a cell can be shortened by factors like resveratrol or estrogen that interfere with mitochondrial production of carbon dioxide. Both of those chemicals cause skin cells, keratinocytes, to stop dividing, to take up calcium

Increased carbon dioxide favors bone formation, and decreased bicarbonate favors the loss of calcium from bone

This is what many of the decalcifying agents do (keeping calcium in bones) : K2, Boron, Magnesium (from inhibiting Parathyroid Hormone), Vit D and the anti-estrogen supps (A, E, Zinc, Selenium etc).

Breathing habit has the biggest impact on CO2 levels. You want to control both inhalation and exhalation, so that they are relatively slow (no need to make it a point to inhale as short as possible, otherwise you might reach hypoxia), but the exhalation should be longer. I think it also helps to breath down to the belly like some Yoga techniques teach about, basically to not have a shallow breath. Calmly breathing into a bag for 2 mins several times a day will also help. Baking soda increases CO2 a lot, the optimal effect is seen at 4 tsps a day but it should be away from meals to not counter gut acidity. B1 is shown to increase CO2 because it assists with glucose metabolism (switching from fat oxidation to glucose oxidation), as do lower fat intake, lower stress, Palmitic Acid and Niacinamide by inhibiting lipolysis.

Breathing is what you do most so it has the biggest impact, I remember this singer who has a perfect hairline into his 30s and his dad is bald, he had major panic attacks and generally high stress during his adolescence. He shared only one trick as if it was the most important one that fixed his stress issues : it was to focus on his breathing, through the nose and in a controlled way whenever he felt stress increasing. I'm still exploring to this day the extent of proper breathing habits being one of the most important keys to good physical and mental health. Having chronically high CO2 is extremely effective at preventing calcification and hairline recession.

Respiration and carbon dioxide are the basic antagonists of the PTH. At birth, a baby has practically no PTH, probably because of the high intrauterine concentration of carbon dioxide, but within a few days the PTH rises.
Increased carbon dioxide favors bone formation, and decreased bicarbonate favors the loss of calcium from bone (Canzanello, et al., 1995; Bushinsky, et al, 2001).

(Serotonin and PUFAs inhibit systemic respiration)

Aspirin inhibits the actions of PTH, helping to prevent the calcification of inflamed tissues, and it inhibits the loss of calcium from bones.

A deficiency of either calcium or magnesium can stimulate the parathyroid glands to produce more hormone (parathyroid hormone, PTH), which increases calcium absorption, but also removes calcium from the bones. This hormone, responding to a dietary calcium or magnesium deficiency, is an important factor in causing cells to take up too much calcium, and its excess is associated with many inflammatory and degenerative diseases.

Interleukin-6 (IL-6), an inflammatory cytokine which increases with aging, is commonly considered to have an important role in the multiple processes of atrophy in old age. One of the things which can increase the production of IL-6 is the parathyroid hormone (PTH), which increases the amount of calcium circulating in the blood, partly by causing it to be removed from the bones; IL-6 stimulates the process of calcium removal from bones.

(Zinc, Magnesium, MSM, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E are inhibitors of IL-6; Serotonin, Iron, excess Copper, acute alcohol intake, diabetic states increase IL-6)

A protein called the PTH-related protein (PTHrP) has the same functions as PTH, but can be produced in any tissue. It is responsible for the hypercalcemia of cancer, and is apparently involved in the frequent metastasis of breast cancer to the bones.

PTH can cause diuresis, leading to loss of blood volume and dehydration, hypertension, paralysis, increased rate of cell division, and growth of cartilage, bone, and other tissues.

All cell death is characterized by an increase of intracellular calcium….” “Increase of cytoplasmic free calcium may therefore be called ‘the final common path’ of cell disease and cell death. Aging as a background of diseases is also characterized by an increase of intracellular calcium. Diseases typically associated with aging include hypertension, arteriosclerosis, diabetes mellitus and dementia.” -Fujita, 1991

(CO2 acting as a preventive factor against increase in intracellular calcium)

Increasing dietary calcium intake is one way to prevent Parathyroid Hormone from leeching calcium out of bones and into cells (soft tissue cells, arteries). K2, Boron and anti-cortisol substances minimize the need for extra calcium because they keep it in bones in the first place. Magnesium is also a potent inhibitor of Parathyroid Hormone. Estrogen, Serotonin, PUFAs and Cortisol promote it.

Ray Peat, PhD on Carbon Dioxide, Longevity, and Regeneration – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Protective CO2 and aging

 

[Progesterone]

I still use progesterone a few times a week, but just for general health. Mainly for its positive effects on the circulatory system. 24mg topically each time.

Sodium bicarbonate increases CO2 a lot, and high CO2 is good at preventing hair loss. Danny Roddy also has a video on CO2's relationship with male pattern baldness.
Maybe @Elephanto can chime in, he seems to know a lot about the subject.

As far as the clomid goes, I wouldn't mess with it anymore. I've only came across stories of it causing hair loss. I also think the topic would've came up in the online bodybuilding realm if it was good for hair, considering how popular the drug is in that community.

Yes, bodybuilders use it, after coming off of steroids.. it's sort of different, than a man using it for low T (which a lot are nowadays). I understand what you're saying though, and yeah, I don't think clomid is some great cure or anything, but..

I am not on anything currently, and I'm not shedding like before. Gonna see how long it lasts.. but I think, clomid potentially reset my hormones, in a positive way to shelter against hairloss.

I'll see for how long this lasts - AND IT COULD BE RELATED TO LLLT as well! I had not thought about that... I started using clomid and LLLT at the same time, and I am still using LLLT.

Welp.

 

[General Orange]

All based on the same study which I disproved by another study that shows it "significantly decreased Estradiol". Honestly the "rumor" that it is estrogenic might just be related to the general suppression of Boron in mainstream science the same way saturated fats were demonized. The article I shared to you talk about this.
https://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/doc_view/227-the-borax-conspiracy

Sounds like a serious conspiracy. The Boron Conspiracy

 

[Progesterone]

Sounds like a serious conspiracy. The Boron Conspiracy

It is.

Alex Jones covered this.

He has the documents.

 

[General Orange]

Interesting, and.... drinking sodium bicard surely can't hurt that's for sure.

You still using prog?

I am drawn towards prog because I do feel like it IS anti-androgenic now... which technically should help.

That said I've gotten a taste of how high T feels on clomid and I swear, that maybe wasn't a good idea. I am craving that now.

The problem with clomid is that it may be too much of an antagonist on ER-beta (estrogen). ER-beta is good for hair.

I'm contemplating using estrogen cream on hairline (that same one whatevr recommended, that you can get on amazon) WITH clomid... that would be a first.

BTW, since using clomid my shedding is still VERY minimal, compared to before. Quite interesting. It does have a half life of 5 days but still, it's been well over that.

You have hair growing INSIDE your body?
skin is it's own organ for steroid genesis, there is where you have to focus on E2.

BTW why dont we take aromatase inhibitors WITH clomid ?

 

[Progesterone]

You have hair growing INSIDE your body?
skin is it's own organ for steroid genesis, there is where you have to focus on E2.

BTW why dont we take aromatase inhibitors WITH clomid ?

Going by this:

Types of Estrogen Receptors
The body has two types of estrogen receptors. These two estrogen receptors have dramatically different effects on hair growth.

1) ER-alpha
ER-alpha is the type of estrogen receptor you DON'T want to stimulate.

With hair, ER-alpha stimulation promotes catagen. Catagen is the cessation of hair growth. ie. The end of anagen (growth phase). After catagen comes telogen (hair shed). Any estrogen which stimulates ER-alpha predominantly will therefore stall hair growth and lead to hair shedding. (ref)

ER-alpha stimulation also may lead to osteoarthritis and osteoporosis. (ref)

2) ER-beta
ER-beta by contrast is the estrogen receptor you DO want to stimulate.

ER-beta signalling works by silencing the ER-alpha catagen signalling pathway. By blocking this catagen signalling, hair follicles can grow longer and spend more time in anagen. This leads to longer and healthier hair. (ref)

Summary
In other words:

• ER-alpha signalling stimulates catagen (stopping hair growth dead)
• ER-beta signalling blocks the ER-alpha pathway (prolonging anagen and causing hair growth)

Evaluating the different types of estrogen:

• Estradiol has a 1:1 alpha:beta binding ratio, estriol has a 3:2 beta:alpha binding ratio, and estrone has a 1.6:1 alpha:beta binding ratio (ref)
• Ethinyl estradiol has "ERα selective agonistic potency" (ref)

Therefore we can conclude that if ER-alpha stimulation is a negative factor for hair, and ER-beta stimulation is a positive one, the value of each estrogen can be ranked as:

• Estriol (best) - 3:2 beta:alpha
• Estradiol (2nd best) - 1:1 beta:alpha
• Estrone (poor) - 1.6:1 alpha:beta
• Ethinyl estradiol (poor) - primarily alpha binding

Lots of people do use AI while on clomid.

 

[General Orange]

That is inside the body not the skin. androgens should flow through the aromatase enzymes to make estrogens. not by putting extra increased estrogens in the body. only topical application of phyto- (estrogens) are safe.

yeah oke a mild AI with clomid would be allright then

 

[General Orange]

I mean, oke that is good summary. but there is a cycle of DHEA -> androgens > estrogens on the skin going on

 

[General Orange]

about progesterone, you can use that as an negative allosteric modulator for estrogen receptor, so it binds on ER displace estrogens and antagonize the receptor.

edit But on the skin it is quickly metabolised. so it would be better to use phyto estrogens to antagonize and displace Estrogens

 

[General Orange]

Soon I will take clomid, with AI and topical Phyto estrogen. but not sure which ones yet

 

[Progesterone]

That is inside the body not the skin. androgens should flow through the aromatase enzymes to make estrogens. not by putting extra increased estrogens in the body. only topical application of phyto- (estrogens) are safe.

yeah oke a mild AI with clomid would be allright then

What do you mean?

For hair we would WANT increased ER-beta...

Clomid, at least centrally is an antagonist of ER-beta, not agonist.

This tells you it increases ER-beta? Not sure where you got that we need to add an AI?

 

[Progesterone]

Soon I will take clomid, with AI and topical Phyto estrogen. but not sure which ones yet

Clomid already basically is an AI... I wouldn't advise to take it with an AI, unless you need it.

I've never felt the need to use an AI with clomid.

Some guys feel the need to... see how you feel on it first, IMO.

 

[Progesterone]

about progesterone, you can use that as an negative allosteric modulator for estrogen receptor, so it binds on ER displace estrogens and antagonize the receptor.

edit But on the skin it is quickly metabolised. so it would be better to use phyto estrogens to antagonize and displace Estrogens

I would want to INCREASE ER-beta tho... lol