Scalp Massages To Stop/halt Hairloss 2020?

[cyclops]

Avoid Health Natura has great pregnenolone

?

 

[mrchibbs]

?

I miswrote, I meant to say that pregnenolone from Health Natura is great.

 

[Apple]

I Would recommend you guys to look into tom hagertys scalp exercises. It has the same benefits of scalp massages but it doesn't damage or wound the scalp .

Remember too, that Tom Haggerty learned this exercise when he was just 19, he probably didn't have much pathological changes to his scalp and it was easier to learn than it would for a guy who's had MPB for 5 years or more.

Here is a guy inspired by Tom Haggerty

From his recent pictures it is pretty clear that he has MPB to some good degree despite young age. He is just hiding his receding hairline under hair. You can see it from his other videos. Despite he's showing impressive results in this scalp exercise I'm wondering if it could actually contribute to his receding hairline. It seems a big oversimplification , train muscle, massage skin and hair magically would start growing.
In fact I think one of the resons minoxidill works because it rather consricts blood vessels rather than relaxes them. That's just how I feel my scalp after applying it. (And I stopped using it, it was causing chest pain)

There is another guy proving the oposite of Tom Haggerty, "to prevent hair loss, one must never get into the habit of raising the eyebrows."
The Cause of Hair Loss

 

[Ableton]

View attachment 17615

From his recent pictures (Tom Haggerty) it is pretty clear that he has MPB to some good degree despite young age. He is just hiding his receding hairline under hair. You can see it from his other videos. Despite he's showing impressive results in this scalp exercise I'm wondering if it could actually contribute to his receding hairline. It seems a big oversimplification , train muscle, massage skin and hair magically would start growing.
In fact I think one of the resons minoxidill works because it rather consricts blood vessels rather than relaxes them. That's just how I feel my scalp after applying it.

why does dermarolling work then? There is no good reason to believe that less bloodflow to the head is beneficial honestly. This is what you read in mainstream forums (more blood means more dht); but even they will say minox works because the growthfactors from blood flow and so on outpace the balding that is still going on

i think blood flow to the scalp is good if your blood contains what it needs. Otherwise, yes, it might even speed up the process.
Fix internal issues, then start the mechanical work. Otherwise you create more fibrosis

i was doing scalp massages and haggerty when I was still super sick (hypo, anemic, high serotonin from gut issues, high blood calcium indicating high parathyroid) and it probably speeded it up.

Now that I fixed that, mechanical stimulus seems to result in lessening of fibrosis and tension

my 2 c

 

[mrchibbs]

Here is a guy inspired by Tom Haggerty
From his recent pictures it is pretty clear that he has MPB to some good degree despite young age. He is just hiding his receding hairline under hair. You can see it from his other videos. Despite he's showing impressive results in this scalp exercise I'm wondering if it could actually contribute to his receding hairline. It seems a big oversimplification , train muscle, massage skin and hair magically would start growing.
In fact I think one of the resons minoxidill works because it rather consricts blood vessels rather than relaxes them. That's just how I feel my scalp after applying it. (And I stopped using it, it was causing chest pain)

There is another guy proving the oposite of Tom Haggerty, "to prevent hair loss, one must never get into the habit of raising the eyebrows."
The Cause of Hair Loss

Interesting. As you say he's definitely hiding his hair loss by combing his hair forward. It's a bad look. Can't say its working for him and yet he's definitely contracting his scalp super super well. As for the other guy's arguments, I simply do not buy it. Most of the people I see with good hair and good metabolism have great scalp mobility. My personal experience (n=1) evidence may be relevant here. I never had any lines on my forehead, and I never moved my eyebrows at all, and I experienced massive hair loss at 21, all on the hair line.

Again, I don't believe results are possible with just massage/exercise. Many kids don't move their scalp and they still have hair. The scalp massage to me is a way to heal from the fibrotic conditions that have set into the scalp. As I've made clear in my previous posts, you have to address the underlying conditions, and that's really hard to do for a lot of people. The guys who succeeded, and the ones of whom there are pictures (i.e. the ones Rob @ perfecthairhealth shows on his website), they did massages, (and some the scalp exercise too) but also made massive lifestyle changes to fix the underlying problem.

My suggestion regarding Tom Haggerty's exercise, is that I feel like it's less dangerous than massaging for a lot of people. My concerns with massages are that in guys who are still under stress/metabolic problems, the massages can worsen the inflammatory conditions and make everything worse. The scalp exercise is gentler, and by moving the scalp tissues, should help with the main conditions of muscular tension and fibrosis. Tom himself is a good testimony to that. He shows pictures of himself, and his super genuine, and now you can see him in his mid-late80s and he's got nice hair on his scalp, despite the fact that he obviously had a tendency for temporal recession.

Anyway, it's my opinion but the best thing about Ray's perspective is that you should experiment, and most people don't have the willpower to experiment with things long enough to see results.

 

[Ableton]

I just applied magnesium oil after a salt scrub. Stings pretty badly but boy, are those scalp exercises easy to do now.

you will notice the same with acv, but mg oil is even stronger

 

[mrchibbs]

I just applied magnesium oil after a salt scrub. Stings pretty badly but boy, are those scalp exercises easy to do now.

you will notice the same with acv, but mg oil is even stronger

That's great!, I think the scalp/neck is a good place to apply topical magnesium.

 

[Apple]

As I've made clear in my previous posts, you have to address the underlying conditions, and that's really hard to do for a lot of people.

And still I can not see any direct connection between overall health and MPB. There are terminally ill people with perfect hairline with no hair loss at all despite all PUFA and being anti-peat and there are people in good health in their 80th or 90th , who lost their hair or turned grey at young age

 

[Ableton]

And still I can not see any direct connection between overall health and MPB. There are terminally ill people with perfect hairline with no hair loss at all despite all PUFA and being anti-peat and there are people in good health in their 80th or 90th , who lost their hair or turned grey at young age

some underlying issues like anemia are mainstream science seen as contributin to hair loss.
everyone who has gut issues and hair loss will tell you it get's much worse when your gut is weak.
people lose more hair in winter.
this list is endless.

anybody got an idea why mg oil stings so badly? is it opposing calcium or something? just applied it 2 hours after dermarolling, and it was almost unbearable.
The amount of blood coming to your scalp doing this, however, is remarkable. I am not coming close to that doing anything else. Feels like my whole scalp sees blood for the first time. Just touching my hair makes me shiver, even after the stinging subsided.
This might be too much of a shock treatment, but who knows.

 

[mrchibbs]

anybody got an idea why mg oil stings so badly? is it opposing calcium or something? just applied it 2 hours after dermarolling, and it was almost unbearable.
The amount of blood coming to your scalp doing this, however, is remarkable. I am not coming close to that doing anything else. Feels like my whole scalp sees blood for the first time. Just touching my hair makes me shiver, even after the stinging subsided.
This might be too much of a shock treatment, but who knows.

Haha no I experienced that too when I tried this (a while ago). Magnesium oil stings on its own, so if you're opening up blood vessels, and massaging the oil in, it's bound to hurt.
Maybe rest your scalp completely for 7-10 days after this though.

 

[mrchibbs]

And still I can not see any direct connection between overall health and MPB. There are terminally ill people with perfect hairline with no hair loss at all despite all PUFA and being anti-peat and there are people in good health in their 80th or 90th , who lost their hair or turned grey at young age

OK. I've written many many comments on this topic on the forum...but here we go.

I am not saying that they're can't exist any healthy people who are also bald (I'll come back to this at the end). The distinction is that scalp hair is one of the first things to go during intense stress. And what defines intense stress is different from one person to another. Most guys who lose hair quickly do so very young these days. Danny Roddy has researched this to death, but basically hair loss (or MPB) in men is strongly associated with hypothyroidism, CVD disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, elevated adrenal DHEAs etc.

It's not a matter of ''whether'' you see any direct connection. The evidence says it. Just go look at Danny Roddy's videos/articles and then go read the papers he references. Hair loss is associated with terrible health problems, and at the root, stress and hypothyroidism. Chronic stress adaptively lowers thyroid function which lowers production of the protective hormones (Progesterone, Testosterone etc.). Women with PCOS can also have clinical ''MPB'' and in fact young men with MPB have the same hormonal profile. (for instance high prolactin, high DHEAs).

Bottomline, premature hair loss is experienced by people in both sexes, but overwhelmingly men because (and this is my understanding) we simply aren't biologically valuable vs. women. One men can impregnate many women, and typically in nature (and in the world), the best specimens (outside of marriage for humans), have sex with most of the women.
This is an evolutionary interpretation of a simple fact: women have ''biological safety nets'' in the form of several adaptations, but two key aspects I can think of: high endogenous ovary progesterone production, and chronic loss of excess iron from menstruation (without having to donate blood).

I think this protects most healthy women from any type of major premature hairloss, and even when their hair starts getting thinner at the temples and crown (which is a real problem for women too), often a healthy pregnancies and the incredible progesterone levels during it lead to regeneration and the women are actually biologically younger after it then before. (Which would imply that healthy pregnancies are good for health)

To conclude, several men, because of simple things like declining metabolism/health and increased stress throughout generations, inherit maladaptations from their parents, which are often compounded by very stupid things like the mother eating PUFAs during pregnancy, or in these days, watching Netflix on WIFI on her belly. Some of these problems can be overcome with a longer term pregnancy and/or extended breastfeeding. In my case I got the worst possible outcome: 1 month premature, underdeveloped lungs, no breastfeeding, and I drank a lot of that Johnson&Johnson PUFA-laden baby formula.

Often these men, after losing their hair progressively throughout their teens, end up stabilizing at a lower metabolic rate and they get used to their new quality of life, and can live adequate and seemingly happy lives. In this state, the fibrosis and microvascular deficiency of the scalp is often very set in and rarely overcome, although it certainly is never permanent, as a few cases of evidence of complete regrowth for bald men in their 70s can attest. (i.e. for instance the man on spironolactone, a progesterone derivate who regrew a full head of hair after being bald for 45 years, or the man who experienced fully regrowth at 78 after falling in a fireplace, both instances aren't especially appealing for most guys though).

And I've written another novel....so I'll stop here!

 

[Zigzag]

And I've written another novel....so I'll stop here!

That's a long novel basically saying that it's all "genetics"

 

[Mauritio]

Nice comment. Tom Haggerty's scalp exercise is the single best thing one can do to full reverse the fibrosis, and it does so by mobilizing the galea and the entire scalp, much like mobilizing a fibrotic joint helps it heal. It is certainly a sounder approach than simply kneading the scalp into oblivion.

The problem, and I speak from experience, the exercise can be extremely hard to learn to do properly if you have chronic scalp tension, and fibrosis/calcification of the vertex (dome head). It seems like the galea is in a permanently stretched and contracted position for guys with long standing MPB. Others have talked of this on this forum.

I had times when I managed to fully relax and contract my scalp completely, and it moved forward by a lot and when I did it felt utterly amazing. The problem is that if you overwork the muscles, it can increase tension and make it harder to get the proper contraction again for weeks. Which can be demoralizing and a fruitless pursuit.

My understanding is that a chronically low thyroid state allows serotonin to be elevated and serotonin causes neuromuscular excitation, and leads to chronic contraction of scalp muscles.

Therefore to really succeed with the scalp exercise, I think you need to raise thyroid function and take magnesium to be able to reach a more relaxed state. (Gently) massaging the side scalp muscles and also the vertex also helps reduce tension and make you more likely to contract it the occipital-frontalis muscle forcefully, and to be able to fully relax it after exercising, and allowing for proper regrowth.

Remember too, that Tom Haggerty learned this exercise when he was just 19, he probably didn't have much pathological changes to his scalp and it was easier to learn than it would for a guy who's had MPB for 5 years or more.

I dont think you need to raise thyroid first to make this work.
It is hard . It took me a month to learn and then 8 months to see the first tiny little ****er hair grow back but if you dont want to show that kind of commitment than you can just say its not gonna work for this or that reason before even trying it . The hairloss community is so full ***t and bitter .
I have regrown hundreds of hair . It is an incredibly slow process but I look at it like that : some guys get less and less hair as they age and I get more .

I still experience hair loss of my old hair ironically when I try new peaty substances and push it too far so the old hair is falling out and the new hair is growing in, kind of like after a hair transplant only for free .
And the new hair doenst fall out when I have the scalp itch or get a stress reaction.

 

[Mauritio]

Here is a guy inspired by Tom Haggerty

View attachment 17615

From his recent pictures it is pretty clear that he has MPB to some good degree despite young age. He is just hiding his receding hairline under hair. You can see it from his other videos. Despite he's showing impressive results in this scalp exercise I'm wondering if it could actually contribute to his receding hairline. It seems a big oversimplification , train muscle, massage skin and hair magically would start growing.
In fact I think one of the resons minoxidill works because it rather consricts blood vessels rather than relaxes them. That's just how I feel my scalp after applying it. (And I stopped using it, it was causing chest pain)

There is another guy proving the oposite of Tom Haggerty, "to prevent hair loss, one must never get into the habit of raising the eyebrows."
The Cause of Hair Loss

All I can say is it works for me. And I am gonna continue as long as I feel it's good:)

 

[mrchibbs]

I dont think you need to raise thyroid first to make this work.
It is hard . It took me a month to learn and then 8 months to see the first tiny little ****er hair grow back but if you dont want to show that kind of commitment than you can just say its not gonna work for this or that reason before even trying it . The hairloss community is so full ***t and bitter .
I have regrown hundreds of hair . It is an incredibly slow process but I look at it like that : some guys get less and less hair as they age and I get more (...)

You're so right that people are very bitter, but that is understandable, they're often sad and frustrated, for years.

Losing hair is not a superficial problem, especially when young. It's the ''balding personality'' that Danny Roddy has talked about. They ask for pics, angrily dismiss everything as genetic, and their perspective is clouded by despair. Not their fault, but it does make dialogue nearly impossible.

With respect to thyroid, I strongly disagree. Sure you can get results, but why would you not figure that thing out?
Speaking of Danny Roddy, people can have their opinion on him, but in most cases I find they've never even read his articles (which are superb)
or really took the time to watch his YouTube videos and the references he lists.

The evidence is indisputable. Thyroid is intimately linked to hair, at very fundamental level. You can't expect real health/cosmetic recovery if you don't fix your thyroid function. In fact, life with low thyroid function is a pale copy of the real thing.

 

[mrchibbs]

That's a long novel basically saying that it's all "genetics"

Absolutely not. The genetic argument is a fairy tale constructed to remove any sense of agency from common people.
I'll stop here because I'm obviously not getting anywhere with you.

 

[Zigzag]

Absolutely not. The genetic argument is a fairy tale constructed to remove any sense of agency from common people.
I'll stop here because I'm obviously not getting anywhere with you.

You can't prove it's not, so calm down. I was just messing with you.

 

[Zigzag]

anybody got an idea why mg oil stings so badly? is it opposing calcium or something? just applied it 2 hours after dermarolling, and it was almost unbearable.
The amount of blood coming to your scalp doing this, however, is remarkable. I am not coming close to that doing anything else. Feels like my whole scalp sees blood for the first time. Just touching my hair makes me shiver, even after the stinging subsided.
This might be too much of a shock treatment, but who knows.

Do you mean bleeding after dermarolling? What length of needles do you use?

 

[mrchibbs]

You can't prove it's not, so calm down. I was just messing with you.

No worries. I'm just very opposed to the idea of genetic determinism, based on all the evidence I've seen it seems 100% fraudulent.

 

[Murtaza]

OK. I've written many many comments on this topic on the forum...but here we go.

I am not saying that they're can't exist any healthy people who are also bald (I'll come back to this at the end). The distinction is that scalp hair is one of the first things to go during intense stress. And what defines intense stress is different from one person to another. Most guys who lose hair quickly do so very young these days. Danny Roddy has researched this to death, but basically hair loss (or MPB) in men is strongly associated with hypothyroidism, CVD disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, elevated adrenal DHEAs etc.

It's not a matter of ''whether'' you see any direct connection. The evidence says it. Just go look at Danny Roddy's videos/articles and then go read the papers he references. Hair loss is associated with terrible health problems, and at the root, stress and hypothyroidism. Chronic stress adaptively lowers thyroid function which lowers production of the protective hormones (Progesterone, Testosterone etc.). Women with PCOS can also have clinical ''MPB'' and in fact young men with MPB have the same hormonal profile. (for instance high prolactin, high DHEAs).

Bottomline, premature hair loss is experienced by people in both sexes, but overwhelmingly men because (and this is my understanding) we simply aren't biologically valuable vs. women. One men can impregnate many women, and typically in nature (and in the world), the best specimens (outside of marriage for humans), have sex with most of the women.
This is an evolutionary interpretation of a simple fact: women have ''biological safety nets'' in the form of several adaptations, but two key aspects I can think of: high endogenous ovary progesterone production, and chronic loss of excess iron from menstruation (without having to donate blood).

I think this protects most healthy women from any type of major premature hairloss, and even when their hair starts getting thinner at the temples and crown (which is a real problem for women too), often a healthy pregnancies and the incredible progesterone levels during it lead to regeneration and the women are actually biologically younger after it then before. (Which would imply that healthy pregnancies are good for health)

To conclude, several men, because of simple things like declining metabolism/health and increased stress throughout generations, inherit maladaptations from their parents, which are often compounded by very stupid things like the mother eating PUFAs during pregnancy, or in these days, watching Netflix on WIFI on her belly. Some of these problems can be overcome with a longer term pregnancy and/or extended breastfeeding. In my case I got the worst possible outcome: 1 month premature, underdeveloped lungs, no breastfeeding, and I drank a lot of that Johnson&Johnson PUFA-laden baby formula.

Often these men, after losing their hair progressively throughout their teens, end up stabilizing at a lower metabolic rate and they get used to their new quality of life, and can live adequate and seemingly happy lives. In this state, the fibrosis and microvascular deficiency of the scalp is often very set in and rarely overcome, although it certainly is never permanent, as a few cases of evidence of complete regrowth for bald men in their 70s can attest. (i.e. for instance the man on spironolactone, a progesterone derivate who regrew a full head of hair after being bald for 45 years, or the man who experienced fully regrowth at 78 after falling in a fireplace, both instances aren't especially appealing for most guys though).

And I've written another novel....so I'll stop here!

im loving all your comments regarding mpb spread across different threads recently. keep it up buddy