Scalp Massages To Stop/halt Hairloss 2020?

[Ableton]

Awesome. Do you have an opinion on coffee/caffeine? This site is very pro caffeine but then you see conflicting stuff out there especially in regards to thyroid.
Definitely feeling the effects of more sunshine. I've been doing 150mg of aspirin daily recently and i feel like that bumps my temp up better than most things.

I know milk didn't work for Rob. I'm gonna trial it again since being off milk hasn't done much i don't think. Do you have a preference in type of milk?

Unfortunately for me, donating blood multiple times didn't help my hair at all, but who knows what else I was doing that could of mitigated the donations..

Like I said in my first post, doing the pinches until I detached parts of my galea off my scalp feels like progress imo. the fact I can manipulate the scalp more after causing these fibre breaks appears like its only a good sign. Gonna keep it to pinches and some stretches once a day or every other day and see how this goes.

check my 2 latest comments
I Need Help To Grow Back My Receding Hairline. [20yo MALE]

i think it explains to whom coffee, blood donation and milk is helpful.

 

[mrchibbs]

Uplifting, thanks dude. But in the end, I feel like balance is super important. I still don't know if I want to throw that many supplements at it. got a sensitive gut. I feel like completely abolishing gut issues would be my next step. I got cypro for that, but it does make me feel so low dopamine :/

Sure, be careful with the supplements. Gut health is sooo important for lowering serotonin and health in general.
Topical supplements are the best for this reason, but orally, cypro is very safe, but maybe do just 0.5mg, vitamin E (Health Natura) is also very safe.
The reason I mention Taurine, Niacinamide and Magnesium is that Ray listed those specifically
as anti-fibrotic agents in a Fibrosis Newsletter. You can get magnesium chloride oil to apply topically, and I think there are Taurine+Niacinamide Shampoo/Cream.

I don't remember where I read it, but he also said, that its better to use several ''adaptogens''
or positive substances, which all work in slightly different ways, to deal with a problem.

Try to use the substances topically, unless they're very safe, and this summer as you get a lot of sun, eat liver and a lot of oysters! I'm sure you've seen this quote from Ray:

When your intestine is extremely sensitive, the excipients and contaminants in a pregnenolone tablet could cause bad symptoms; the only supplements that are very safe to take orally are aspirin, cascara, some kinds of thyroid, small amounts of penicillin (30 mg), cyproheptadine (one-half to one milligram), and progesterone. Vitamin A and DHEA on the skin are safe, but you should put the vitamin A on your lower legs, and wash your hands so that none of it gets on your lips. - Ray Peat (2016)

 

[lampofred]

Isn't T3 the most powerful anti-fibrotic agent? If MPB is due to fibrosis cutting off the scalp's blood supply, and T3 is powerful enough that it can reverse even heart fibrosis, then in theory high dose T3 should be able to reverse hair loss as long as protein intake is high enough to prevent protein wasting (and in addition I think calcium, sugar, vitamin D, vitamin A reduce protein requirements).

 

[mrchibbs]

Isn't T3 the most powerful anti-fibrotic agent? If MPB is due to fibrosis cutting off the scalp's blood supply, and T3 is powerful enough that it can reverse even heart fibrosis, then in theory high dose T3 should be able to reverse hair loss as long as protein intake is high enough to prevent protein wasting (and in addition I think calcium, sugar, vitamin D, vitamin A reduce protein requirements).

I don't know. Of course it's fundamental, as long as optimal thyroid function will lower prolactin, serotonin and parathyroid hormone, but I don't know that it can reverse fibrosis on its own. I think you need supra-optimal doses of many adaptogens, and as many environmental interventions as you can, for as a long enough period for reversal of pathologies to be possible.

As I mentioned above, there is a great quote from Ray about using many different substances at the same time, but I can't find it. And I think the main problem in hair loss, especially when hair isn't regrowing despite great improvement in metabolism, is that the scalp becomes immobile/stiff over the years from the fibrosis/constant tension and it needs some active stimulation to heal, which is why the best cases of regrowth were seen by those few people on Rob English's massage protocol and/or Tom Haggerty's scalp exercise, which can be extremely hard to do correctly when the galea is stretched/under constant tension.

It's like a fibrotic ankle, in a sick person, it doesn't really heal and there's inflammation, and arthritis, but if it's a healthy person, mobilizing the ankle, with therapeutic stretching and massage, makes it heal completely.

 

[Jack Earth]

How long have you been in these forums? I don't think i've EVER seen one case of someone who has ACTUALLY cured their hair loss through the ray peat diet? Have you?.. maybe people who have improved their hair through thyroid supplement or something but that's different.

People who have any sort of result on this woe are taking thyroid supps or some sort of hormone/supplements or whatever. How can you equate that to the success of the diet then? You cant, ever.

I don't buy into Danny roddy curing his hair loss, he was probably never going to go bald really, if you see his hair, it's always looked pretty good, i've never seen a photo of his hair where it was receded at all, Maybe very mildly which from what i've seen SO MANY people have at a young age, and then end up retaining most of the hair till a late age, my father included, I've seen photos of my fathers hair when he was like 20 ish and had mild recession and he's 55 now and he still has a lot of hair.
All that happened with Danny Roddy was that he probably ruined something in his health through all the crazy diets or what ever he did and then thyroid or something just restored him to normal health, thus just improving the quality and maybe any shedding he was getting, i dont think he ever had that MPB where shape at all.

You sound like a skeptic to people here... But your right. Nobody is showing any proof of regrowth around here.
There are several different forms of hair loss and your reason may have a lot more success with stimulation than diet.
Also the guys saying just drink milk and go in the sun are clueless to the reality.
Milk will actually make hairloss worse for many people.
If I were you I'd stick to one teacher or method and just try it for a while. Id put a pause in Roddy and the forum members here and follow Robs system for a bit.

 

[mrchibbs]

I’ll be honest comments like these are infuriating for a couple reasons:

1) We’re not saying to drink milk and go in the sun for no reason, it’s literally the best way to elevate D, suppress PTH and prolactin which have been shown to be factors in every single case of hair loss, and yes Danny Roddy has tons of references on the topic and he’s talked about them ad nauseam.

2) People who constantly ask for pics are never satisfied, if the guy has hair, its either oh you never had hair loss in the first place or the before/after pictures are not the same person or the lighting is bad etc. It’s endless. On this forum every week there’s someone new who starts a hair loss thread and asks for pics, then thrashes every single comments if they don’t get the pics.

3) The guys who regrew their hair on ‘Rob’s system’ all did much more than just massage their hair and some of them were actually also consulting with Danny Roddy, and in fact if you’d read Rob’s book back then he was recommending much of the same lifestyle changes. They’re not mutually exclusive approaches. The only reason Danny doesn’t recommend massages is that the evidence is overwhelming that Hair loss is a sign of serious health problems. How many forum threads are there of guys who massaged forever without any benefits?

Anyway rant over :) Good luck in your recovery

 

[Mauritio]

I Would recommend you guys to look into tom hagertys scalp exercises. It has the same benefits of scalp massages but it doesn't damage or wound the scalp .

 

[mrchibbs]

I Would recommend you guys to look into tom hagertys scalp exercises. It has the same benefits of scalp massages but it doesn't damage or wound the scalp .

Nice comment. Tom Haggerty's scalp exercise is the single best thing one can do to full reverse the fibrosis, and it does so by mobilizing the galea and the entire scalp, much like mobilizing a fibrotic joint helps it heal. It is certainly a sounder approach than simply kneading the scalp into oblivion.

The problem, and I speak from experience, the exercise can be extremely hard to learn to do properly if you have chronic scalp tension, and fibrosis/calcification of the vertex (dome head). It seems like the galea is in a permanently stretched and contracted position for guys with long standing MPB. Others have talked of this on this forum.

I had times when I managed to fully relax and contract my scalp completely, and it moved forward by a lot and when I did it felt utterly amazing. The problem is that if you overwork the muscles, it can increase tension and make it harder to get the proper contraction again for weeks. Which can be demoralizing and a fruitless pursuit.

My understanding is that a chronically low thyroid state allows serotonin to be elevated and serotonin causes neuromuscular excitation, and leads to chronic contraction of scalp muscles.

Therefore to really succeed with the scalp exercise, I think you need to raise thyroid function and take magnesium to be able to reach a more relaxed state. (Gently) massaging the side scalp muscles and also the vertex also helps reduce tension and make you more likely to contract it the occipital-frontalis muscle forcefully, and to be able to fully relax it after exercising, and allowing for proper regrowth.

Remember too, that Tom Haggerty learned this exercise when he was just 19, he probably didn't have much pathological changes to his scalp and it was easier to learn than it would for a guy who's had MPB for 5 years or more.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I started doing these kinds of massages lately, a few times a week, not everyday. They just feel good, my head seems refreshed after doing it, so I assume it's doing something beneficial to me.

 

[mrchibbs]

I started doing these kinds of massages lately, a few times a week, not everyday. They just feel good, my head seems refreshed after doing it, so I assume it's doing something beneficial to me.

As long as you're gentle and you scalp isn't constantly painful or inflamed to the touch, you can bet it's doing something good. A lot of people don't heal well from regular massaging, and they just perpetuate a cycle of inflammation.

 

[Ableton]

As long as you're gentle and you scalp isn't constantly painful or inflamed to the touch, you can bet it's doing something good. A lot of people don't heal well from regular massaging, and they just perpetuate a cycle of inflammation.

can we be sure enforcing inflammation is bad, and not healing especially when you have advanced fibrosis and underlying issues are fixed with aspirin, diet etc.? I feel like keeping the scalp slightly enflamed might be good for regrowth and reversal tbh, for those who have more to win than to lose ofc.

regarding the scalp exercises: any1 else getting crazy forehead wrinkles from this? it's why I stopped

 

[mrchibbs]

can we be sure enforcing inflammation is bad, and not healing especially when you have advanced fibrosis and underlying issues are fixed with aspirin, diet etc.? I feel like keeping the scalp slightly enflamed might be good for regrowth and reversal tbh, for those who have more to win than to lose ofc.

regarding the scalp exercises: any1 else getting crazy forehead wrinkles from this? it's why I stopped

Sure, but the scalp needs to heal between massages, and in my personal experience if you're not careful and massage too often, you can be perpetuating inflammation instead of trying to stimulate healing. If you massage so often that your scalp is always in an inflamed state, eventually it will cause edema and then worsen the fibrosis. Danny Roddy talked about this in the past, he received hundreds of emails of guys for whom massaging made their hair actively worse. Some members on this forum have written about this, the importance of less frequent massages to allow for full healing. That's why it's so important to focus on the systemic cause of stress and hair loss and approach massaging with care, and plenty of rest time.

 

[Zigzag]

I use breo scalp massager every other day. It just feels so good. I cover my whole scalp, forehead, sides and neck.

 

[cyclops]

Sure, be careful with the supplements. Gut health is sooo important for lowering serotonin and health in general.
Topical supplements are the best for this reason, but orally, cypro is very safe, but maybe do just 0.5mg, vitamin E (Health Natura) is also very safe.
The reason I mention Taurine, Niacinamide and Magnesium is that Ray listed those specifically
as anti-fibrotic agents in a Fibrosis Newsletter. You can get magnesium chloride oil to apply topically, and I think there are Taurine+Niacinamide Shampoo/Cream.

I don't remember where I read it, but he also said, that its better to use several ''adaptogens''
or positive substances, which all work in slightly different ways, to deal with a problem.

Try to use the substances topically, unless they're very safe, and this summer as you get a lot of sun, eat liver and a lot of oysters! I'm sure you've seen this quote from Ray:

Ive always seen that quote about ray warning about the excipients in pregnenolone (tablet) and not to take orally. I wonder if he knows companies like Idealabs and healthnatura sell a rather pure product. Also he ate like 3 grams a day for a year...

 

[Ableton]

I have pregnenolone + dhea, but I just don't know what it actually converts to in my body

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I have pregnenolone + dhea, but I just don't know what it actually converts to in my body

For me, I've found Pansterone to be both pro-anabolic and pro-estrogen, if that can be possible.
I stopped using it, since I don't think I have a downstream conversion problem.

 

[Ableton]

For me, I've found Pansterone to be both pro-anabolic and pro-estrogen, if that can be possible.
I stopped using it, since I don't think I have a downstream conversion problem.

Probably the same for me. It makes me feel good though. I will probably just use it before sex now lmao.

Anyways, since dropping coffee completely and adding aspirin my daytime temps have risen. Just hit 36,8 the first time without thyroid. I'm on the right track. Also, it's a bit early to tell but I believe I do not get cold hands anymore. I will update on this.

I can fully relax my scalp with a 2 minute massage right now.
Last winter, this took me 20 min.

There is def. a huge systemic correlation between scalp tightness and health for me

I am planning to go for three solid meals a day again, slightly reducing milk and OJ, since my gut seems to do better on that.

Cypro reduced to 0,5mg a couple hours before sleep

Yesterday, I just left my phone and laptop at work, meaning no screen time for a couple hours before bed.
Best sleep I had in ages, so I will continue this. Possibly another reason for high temps today.

Fixing my APT by sitting with spread legs. Definitely some progress there

Some dude who is new to the forum messaged me, said he drastically slowed his hair loss.
He buzzed his head, uses acv, sleeps on a yoga mat (I plan to try this as well once it starts getting warmer, my mat ***** my posture), does scalp exercises.

I am starting to invert again for 3 min a day, with breathing technique (suddenly stopping exhalation in your throat, similar to how military pilots are managing pressure) to maximize blood flow to the scalp.
Maybe this way we can reaactive some of the infrastructure/get rid of calcium/fat buildup in them.

 

[Zigzag]

@Ableton I thought of buying cypro, but I'm in the middle of weight loss process and I saw it actually promotes weight gain. Also I bought acv yesterday, what a coincidence. Does this user who messaged you use it topically?

 

[Ableton]

@Ableton I thought of buying cypro, but I'm in the middle of weight loss process and I saw it actually promotes weight gain. Also I bought acv yesterday, what a coincidence. Does this user who messaged you use it topically?

ye. I use it, too.
Cleans your scalp.

Since I use it I do not have those white dots anymore on hairs that shed.

I used it undiluted.
Now that I inflame my scalp a lot with massages and towel massages I dillute it. Prob too agressive otherwise

I just put some on my head after every shower to get rid of the calcium in the hard water. Like 2 tbsp

 

[mrchibbs]

Ive always seen that quote about ray warning about the excipients in pregnenolone (tablet) and not to take orally. I wonder if he knows companies like Idealabs and healthnatura sell a rather pure product. Also he ate like 3 grams a day for a year...

Those quotes are older (from the early 2010s or earlier), back then there wasn't any companies around like Idealabs and HealthNatura. I think he's 100% right on being careful with supplements though. For instance I used to take tablets and capsules, but now I only take the straight powder or oil form of any supplements. This way I avoid any excipients. There could still be impurities in the manufacturing process though. I tend to add niacinamide powder to apple sauce, or dissolve aspirin powder and baking soda in hot water etc. Avoid Health Natura has great pregnenolone. Any supplement I can effectively take topically and avoid orally, I do that too. For example, topical magnesium oil/gel is very good and I can avoid taking it orally (not that it's dangerous, but it's good to limit the amount of oral supplements). When in doubt, take it topically, and if that's not practical (too expensive), find a food replacement. For example zinc gluconate powder is nice in deficiencies, but its much better to eat oysters, which also contain a lot of unidentified and potential beneficial nutrients, and good balance with other minerals (copper). Vitamin A, I never take orally, just topically on inflamed skin, and I eat liver, eggs etc.