Saunas: Good Or Bad In PeatLand?

[peatarian]

What health benefits do you feel from the CO2 body bag therapy besides relaxation? I'm curious about trying it but a little intimidated.

Oh, no, this is not dangerous. After all CO2 is used to put out fires not to make them. It's not going to explode or anything. I remember I had lots of respect at first, too but now it's like taking a shower.
It's hard to tell you about the health benefits. If you have some pain in your back or knee or arms or head -- they are gone after minutes. If you are stressed, sad -- that's gone, too.
Generally I would say you feel like you've just been washed inside.

 

[peatarian]

Yep, I am on it. Hopefully I can get a setup going by the time winter sets in. I will be sitting by the fire in my bag of Co2 sipping on OJ and gelatin under my high power light setup. Peating it up to the fullest!

My family think im a little strange already with the things I eat and do (They don't understand) but they would try to have me locked up if they find me doing that.

Just out of interest. Is it safe to breathe in small amounts of CO2 from the bottles ? I imagine that would be inadvisable.

It is always a little hard for me to imagine how it could possibly matter what others think about you. I constantly fight my shock and disgust when I see what some of my family and friends do to their bodies. How they suffer. How they still trust their doctors who have nearly killed but certainly not helped them over the years. How they eat their PUFA and believe in their rape seed oil and how they keep telling themselves that all the symptoms from a weak thyroid gland are what has to come with aging. I think the moment I did something they understood I would start questioning it. But one by one they come to ask for my advice now and see that Ray Peat works.

But I come from a different place. I came to Ray Peat for help when I was lethally sick. It was either trying him or going the way that led nowhere. I imagine it must be different if there is less pressure.

No, it is not harmful to breath in CO2 from the bottle. It's just CO2. You breath it in every moment. It is much more harmful to breath pure (or highly concentrated) oxygen as you would during surgery of any kind. But really you can't breath pure CO2, it would suffocate you. You will always breath in a little as it leaves the bag but that's just like bag breathing. I have deliberately breathed in CO2 when I felt a sore throat coming up. It healed immediately.

 

[pete]

Keeping pure CO2 in your lungs for a while doesn't seem to have a negative effect, the most noticeable is the coca-cola after-taste in your throat.

 

[peatarian]

Keeping pure CO2 in your lungs for a while doesn't seem to have a negative effect, the most noticeable is the coca-cola after-taste in your throat.

Yes, I know that very well. I know a man who always burps when he is in the CO2 bag.

 

[Kemby]

Thanks Peatarian,

Very valid points!

Funnily enough a friend of mine was taking a big interest in what I do today as a family member of his has extremely bad eczema and was wondering if this stuff would help. I think the answer is a resounding yes!

 

[peatarian]

Thanks Peatarian,

Very valid points!

Funnily enough a friend of mine was taking a big interest in what I do today as a family member of his has extremely bad eczema and was wondering if this stuff would help. I think the answer is a resounding yes!

Ondansetron or bromocriptin help against eczema but you will not convince a non-Peatarian to try those. Pure T3 or DHEA powder in olive oil or coconut fat on the other hand help a lot and don't need to be taken orally. One thing which usually helps is to donate blood -- the decrease of iron will heal most skin problems within hours after the blood loss (should be 500 ml). Also worth a try: caffein or coffee on the skin or vitamin D3 oil.

Be careful: If it's not an eczema but a fungus the CO2 will be like a fertilizer.
If they've tried cortisone topically and it got worse it's likely a fungus infection.

 

[peatarian]

What health benefits do you feel from the CO2 body bag therapy besides relaxation? I'm curious about trying it but a little intimidated.

Healing - I've answered your PM yesterday but it's still in my outbox. Would you like to send me a PM with an e-mail-address?

 

[charlie]

Peatarian, if the PM is in the outbox that means the person has not opened it yet on their end. It's sitting in their messages waiting to be opened.

 

[ken]

peatarian,
I've been using a bag of co2 for a few months but its not large enough to climb in. Or perhaps I'm too large, in any event it just comes to above my waist. I started with holding it closed, tried bungee cords, moved to a regular belt and recently a elastic back brace to seal it. If you've got it up to your neck how are you sealing it? It's actually an eastern European spa treatment where they have attendants and use tape to seal. Since I'm unable to afford an attendant I was wondering how to self seal as it were. Also there's a news report of a woman in a Mcdonald's being suffocated by a broken beverage co2 line filling the rest room that she visited. There are also a few studies floating around about it's benefits. Google dry co2 bath. This is a link to a spa page. http://www.relaxace.com/carbon-dioxide.html .

 

[peatarian]

Do you know the elastic binders people use to save their trousers from getting dirty when they drive a bike? I have been using those. Now we found an elastic band Marathon runners use to fixate their number front and back. I found it at a sports shop but you can get it at amazon ... http://www.amazon.com/TYR-Race-Belt-Red ... umber+belt
You can fix it around your neck or around your chest.
Before that we used the belts from our bathrobes. Just make it tight without strangling yourself. I think it's very important to get your arms in the bag because there are lots of veins close to the surface.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Warm temperatures will always increase your estrogen level and release stored PUFA. Saunas as known in Europe are too hot. A hot bath will never be as hot as the air in a sauna and this means stress.

Infrared is always a good idea if infrared speaks of the light, not just the heat. RP uses infrared lamps to heat 'his area' in winter instead of heating the whole house. But he doesn't use them as hyperthermia therapy. He once suggested hyperthermia to me as a safe anti-cancer-treatment. Obviously this treatment was invented in Italy but it's hardly ever used anywhere in spite of the tremendously positive results in studies. In some parts of Europe and the US hyperthermia therapy is only allowed as accompanying measure for people treated with radioactivity or chemotherapy.

Obviously the effect of shrinking cancer cells has a lot to do with the stress of the heat. But this is a bit like an artificial fever which helps the body to set free energy, too. After hyperthermia you are supposed to feel very weak to the point that you can't walk. It is immensely stressful and often administered under anesthesia.

But rising the body temperature through a bath or a hot shower is definitely a good idea, better than exercise at least.

There are some places in Europe with natural CO2 springs. Those are places of traditional healing where you bath in the bubbles. But there is no safe way to have a CO2 bath at home apart from baking soda in the water.

Have you tried the CO2 filled body sized bags? I usually sweat in there since the CO2 replaces the water in my cells. The more often I do it, the less 'water' there will be in the bag. It feels like a trip to the mountains. Afterwards I am always tired in a good way and sometimes I fall asleep in the bag. I can only recommend it.
I usually take a hot bath before I climb in the bag so I will lose a lot of liquid in there.

I am confused by this.....
She says heat will raise estrogen......so is she saying the infrared saunas ARE bad?

 

[ddjd]

So it would seem a dry-sauna is better than both a steam room and hot bath.

Which makes a lot of sense... I wonder about infrared saunas?

has anyone actually asked peat yet?

 

[Amazoniac]

It's stressful but sometimes this artificial fever can help to correct problems. Some publications:

- Clinical Effects of Regular Dry Sauna Bathing: A Systematic Review
- Chemical Sensitivity After Intoxication at Work with Solvents: Response to Sauna Therapy
- Heat stress: comparison of short exposure to severe dry and wet heat in saunas
- Antiviral Effect of Hyperthermic Treatment in Rhinovirus Infection
- The sauna: killer or healer?
- Benefits and risks of sauna bathing
- Regular Sauna Bathing and the Incidence of Common Colds
- Facts and Fables about Sauna
- Sauna as a Valuable Clinical Tool for Cardiovascular, Autoimmune, Toxicant-induced and other Chronic Health Problems
- A new treatment: thermal therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome (日本人)
- The effects of repeated thermal therapy for two patients with chronic fatigue syndrome
- Effects of Waon Therapy on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Pilot Study
- The Medical Risks and Benefits of Sauna, Steam Bath, and Whirlpool Use
- Characterization of Bacterial Community Contaminating Floor of A Hot and Dry Sauna​

Related:

- Hyperthermia: Cancer Treatment and Beyond
- Heating the patient: a promising approach?​

 

[YourUniverse]

 

[jitsmonkey]

I've corresponded with him on this
and his answers are like all his answers
if its not creating stress and you're well fueled it can be a life saver for supporting higher body temp and metabolism
he's not opposed to exercise, he's opposed to exercise at an intensity that can't be fueled and or that needlessly wastes internal resources (which is most of the modern menu of "training" and "weight loss")
Pulse and temp are your best gauge.
If you run a 200 degree sauna and run out of fuel its gonna be bad
If you run a 150 degree sauna, never get stressed and are well fueled as your body is warmed it can be a life saver.
Its never a question of "are saunas good or bad"
its a question of context... how are you USING this tool called a sauna.
If you're using it recklessly and expensively as it relates to fuel and resources then of course like ANYTHING you're exposed to that causes you to run out of fuel
and resources... its bad.
If you're using the tool intelligently and creating a NET GAIN then as I said it can be a lifesaver.
Pulse and temp consistently measured day to day
pre/post meals, pre/post sauna
plus sleep quality will tell you if you're doing it right or wrong.
Sauna is simply a tool. Use it wisely and you benefit. Use it foolishly and you don't
Identical to say taking a hot bath. A hot bath can be a terribly stressful and resource expensive experience but if well fueled and used wisely can be an enormously helpful tool

As a side note
similar effects can be acheived through
-warmer ambient home temps
-wearing more clothes
-wearing specialized heat retaining clothes
-warm bath
-brooder lamps
a sauna is an easy and controllable way to deliver heat/warmth
but its a costly luxury, certainly not necessary

 

[Amazoniac]

I've corresponded with him on this
and his answers are like all his answers
if its not creating stress and you're well fueled it can be a life saver for supporting higher body temp and metabolism
he's not opposed to exercise, he's opposed to exercise at an intensity that can't be fueled and or that needlessly wastes internal resources (which is most of the modern menu of "training" and "weight loss")
Pulse and temp are your best gauge.
If you run a 200 degree sauna and run out of fuel its gonna be bad
If you run a 150 degree sauna, never get stressed and are well fueled as your body is warmed it can be a life saver.
Its never a question of "are saunas good or bad"
its a question of context... how are you USING this tool called a sauna.
If you're using it recklessly and expensively as it relates to fuel and resources then of course like ANYTHING you're exposed to that causes you to run out of fuel
and resources... its bad.
If you're using the tool intelligently and creating a NET GAIN then as I said it can be a lifesaver.
Pulse and temp consistently measured day to day
pre/post meals, pre/post sauna
plus sleep quality will tell you if you're doing it right or wrong.
Sauna is simply a tool. Use it wisely and you benefit. Use it foolishly and you don't
Identical to say taking a hot bath. A hot bath can be a terribly stressful and resource expensive experience but if well fueled and used wisely can be an enormously helpful tool

As a side note
similar effects can be acheived through
-warmer ambient home temps
-wearing more clothes
-wearing specialized heat retaining clothes
-warm bath
-brooder lamps
a sauna is an easy and controllable way to deliver heat/warmth
but its a costly luxury, certainly not necessary

You can be prepared by being well-nourished and then allow the body to recuperate after the wards but the point of fever is to create a transient stress (without the need to exhaust yourself) to help in correcting an issue. The initial depletion is compensated when the body upregulates defenses and is optimized during recovery. Hopefully in the process toxins were expelled or infections cleared.

I wonder how it fares in comparison to heat lamps: the more you narrow the electronic mail spectrum, the less stimulating it is, and this can be useful in sparing nutrition for the proper immune response in artificial fever.

 

[jitsmonkey]

You can be prepared by being well-nourished and then allow the body to recuperate after the wards but the point of fever is to create a transient stress (without the need to exhaust yourself) to help in correcting an issue. The initial depletion is compensated when the body upregulates defenses and is optimized during recovery. Hopefully in the process toxins were expelled or infections cleared.

I wonder how it fares in comparison to heat lamps: the more you narrow the electronic mail spectrum, the less stimulating it is, and this can be useful in sparing nutrition for the proper immune response in artificial fever.

@Amazoniac I don't disagree with your perspective relating to transient stress re: fever (which is likely how many use the sauna in an effort to "detox" etc)
but the OP asked as it related to Peat so I provided a response as best as I could through a "peat lens" and how a sauna could be used productively as many sauna owners actually use them ie. daily or at the very least multiple times a week

I'm unsure how Ray would view what you've posited.

Additionally I think your noted approach could be very much worthy as a temporary approach to a temporary problem in a repairative context.
Most people who invest in saunas use them regularly if not daily. I would think as an ongoing long term/daily strategy
creating this type of "transient stress" as described in your refs would be unwise.

So most importantly context wins and the objective and execution of how the tool is used matters.
My favorite endgame here.... TWO things can be right ;-)

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac I don't disagree with your perspective relating to transient stress re: fever
but the OP asked as it related to Peat so I provided a response as best as I could through a "peat lens"

I'm unsure how Ray would view what you've posited.

Additionally I think your approach noted might be worthy as a temporary approach to a temporary problem.
Most people who invest in saunas use them regularly if not daily. I would think as an ongoing long term/daily strategy
creating this type of "transient stress" as described in your refs would be unwise.

So most importantly context wins and the objective and execution of how the tool is used matters.
My favorite endgame here.... TWO things can be right ;-)

Right away I want to clarify that I also miss narouz.

But people don't need to buy those, there are country clubs that have them, the price shouldn't be high for a monthly membership, the advantage is that at the same time that you'll contract a disease from the putrid floor, you'll be fixing part of it with the sauna. But I don't need to care about any of these because in Netherlands we all have a private sauna, jacuzzi, a chlorineless olympic swimming pool and a golf course.

 

[jitsmonkey]

Right away I want to clarify that I also miss narouz.

But people don't need to buy those, there are country clubs that have them, the price shouldn't be high for a monthly membership, the advantage is that at the same time that you'll contract a disease from the putrid floor, you'll be fixing part of it with the sauna. But I don't need to care about any of these because in Netherlands we all have a private sauna, jacuzzi, a chlorineless olympic swimming pool and a golf course.

People do buy them though (I own one lol. There's zero chance I'd use it as often as I do if it wasn't in my house)
The US, Canadian, European and Australian markets are fairly large for private home sauna sales.
But you do make a good point about the underestimated value of a putrid floor (hence one reason why I own one lol)

 

[Amazoniac]

People do buy them though (I own one lol. There's zero chance I'd use it as often as I do if it wasn't in my house)
The US, Canadian, European and Australian markets are fairly large for private home sauna sales.
But you do make a good point about the underestimated value of a putrid floor (hence one reason why I own one lol)

Speaking of chlorine, another possible issue with public wet saunas is inhalation of chlorine compounds or even the essences that they use (some people seem to be allergic to them).