Saturated fats decrease quality of sperm ?

BlackMolasses

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tankasnowgod

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Based on what?

You don't even have to read past the Abstract to know there is no way this study can support the title of this thread, or even the title of the study.

Design: In this cross-sectional study, men were recruited when they were examined to determine their fitness for military service from 2008 to 2010. They delivered a semen sample, underwent a physical examination, and answered a questionnaire comprising a quantitative food-frequency questionnaire to assess food and nutrient intakes. Multiple linear regression analyses were performed with semen variables as outcomes and dietary fat intakes as exposure variables, adjusted for confounders.

Everything was just a single point in time..... the semen sample, the physical examination, and the questionnaire. The semen sample itself could vary in "quality" based on numerous factors ranging from recent and chronic sexual activity, sleep patterns, even time of day when the sample was collected, and many other things.

And assessing food and nutrient intake by questionnaire is a fool's errand. It's done because it's cheap and easy, but it's notoriously inaccurate. Those questionnaires can't tell you accurately how much butter or steak or margarine or whatever that any particular recruit ate over the past 3 months.... let alone getting a remotely accurate estimate of saturated fat intake, or any other micro or macro nutrient.
 
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Blaze

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And assessing food and nutrient intake by questionnaire is a fool's errand. It's done because it's cheap and easy, but it's notoriously inaccurate. Those questionnaires can't tell you accurately how much butter or steak or margarine or whatever that any particular recruit ate over the past 3 months.... let alone getting a remotely accurate estimate of saturated fat intake, or any other micro or macro nutrient.
Absolutely correct, like many studies, based on impossible to determine variables and flawed from the start and just looking to prove a preconceived conclusion rather than being objective.
 
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BlackMolasses

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Basé sur quoi ?

Vous n'avez même pas besoin de lire au-delà du résumé pour savoir qu'il n'y a aucun moyen que cette étude puisse soutenir le titre de ce fil, ou même le titre de l'étude.



Tout n'était qu'un seul point dans le temps... l'échantillon de sperme, l'examen physique et le questionnaire. L'échantillon de sperme lui-même peut varier en "qualité" en fonction de nombreux facteurs allant de l'activité sexuelle récente et chronique, aux habitudes de sommeil, même à l'heure de la journée à laquelle l'échantillon a été prélevé, et bien d'autres choses.

Et évaluer l'apport alimentaire et nutritif par questionnaire est une course folle. C'est fait parce que c'est bon marché et facile, mais c'est notoirement inexact. Ces questionnaires ne peuvent pas vous dire avec précision combien de beurre ou de steak ou de margarine ou quoi que ce soit qu'une recrue particulière a mangé au cours des 3 derniers mois... et encore moins obtenir une estimation à distance précise de l'apport en graisses saturées, ou tout autre micro ou macro nutriment .
You're right, but the fact is that of over 700 people, those who reported eating more saturated fats had less healthy sperm.
This deserves to be emphasized and not just brushed aside because the study conditions are not optimal.
 
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Blaze

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You're right, but the fact is that of over 700 people, those who reported eating more saturated fats had less healthy sperm.
This deserves to be emphasized and not just brushed aside because the study conditions are not optimal.
We need to define clearly what they mean by "less healthy sperm".......as it was stated it seems very subjective and unclear. I would concede only that saturated fat , while certainly being a much healthier dietary substrate , is not even close to being as trophic as pufas are. That is why weightlifters sometimes inject arachidonic acid for the hypertrophic effect. The systemic trophic effect may also explain the possible increase in sperm volume and motility. Just pure speculation on my part though.
 
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Can

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You're right, but the fact is that of over 700 people, those who reported eating more saturated fats had less healthy sperm.
Isn't this like those studies proporting to show that vegetarianism is the healthiest diet form because people who are vegetarian in such studies on average are healthier - not because of them being vegetarian, but because people who choose to be vegetarian are more conscious of their dietary decisions to begin with, and likely look after their health more than average people? It's bad study design and doesn't say anything about the causal effects of anything.
 
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BlackMolasses

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Isn't this like those studies proporting to show that vegetarianism is the healthiest diet form because people who are vegetarian in such studies on average are healthier - not because of them being vegetarian, but because people who choose to be vegetarian are more conscious of their dietary decisions to begin with, and likely look after their health more than average people? It's bad study design and doesn't say anything about the causal effects of anything.
We need to define clearly what they mean by "less healthy sperm".......as it was stated it seems very subjective and unclear. I would concede only that saturated fat , while certainly being a much healthier dietary substrate , is not even close to being as trophic as pufas are. That is why weightlifters sometimes inject arachidonic acid for the hypertrophic effect. The systemic trophic effect may also explain the possible increase in sperm volume and motility. Just pure speculation on my part though.
You are right, I just wanted to ask this
 

parallax

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Basic speculative critique, not adding much to what others have said:

While admittedly I have not read the study to know whether the following is salient, food questionaires like this often seem to use a seat-of-the-amateur-pants definition of 'saturated fat,' perhaps something like [ liking pizza = little attention to diet = overconsumption of processed foods = high intake of saturated fat ].
 

Hans

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You're right, but the fact is that of over 700 people, those who reported eating more saturated fats had less healthy sperm.
This deserves to be emphasized and not just brushed aside because the study conditions are not optimal.
Some scientists actually think that certain vegetable oils are high saturated fat. So their definition of saturated fat is different than ours.
 

tankasnowgod

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You're right, but the fact is that of over 700 people, those who reported eating more saturated fats had less healthy sperm.
Yeah..... "reported." On a one time questionnaire, asking them what they ate the past 3 months. Can you accurately report what you ate for the past 3 months? And give a precise nutrient breakdown? Can anyone you know do this?

There is a reason I included both butter and margarine in my original comment. Many people think of them as basically the same thing, and use them interchangeably. But as far as fat breakdown, they are dramatically different. This is just a single example.

And the study didn't even say "less healthy sperm," it said sperm quality. They measured things like semen volume, sperm count, and motility. If you look at the study itself, it doesn't even vary that much. And if they didn't bother to estimate recent and chronic sexual activity, that itself is a massive confounder.
This deserves to be emphasized and not just brushed aside because the study conditions are not optimal.
I disagree. It totally deserves to be brushed aside. It's not just that the study conditions are "not optimal," it's that the method used to assess diet is completely and totally useless. All these studies that assess someone's diet with a one time questionnaire covering a few months (and some cover a few years) should be discounted. There is simply no way they have an accurate picture of anyone's diet in that study, and that makes any correlations useless, without even getting into the whole "correlation doesn't equal causation" thing, which is also true.
 

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