Saturated Fats And Mitochondrias

brandonk

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Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
145
haidut said:
post 119063
brandonk said:
post 119044
haidut said:
post 118941 ...Taking phosphatidylcholine restores cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels ...
:confused

You are right, even though it does not say you should take PC it implies it. I will edit my post.
Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:
I think it must depend on the fats in the diet and the type of phosphatidilycholine. If DPPC were cheap, I’d try it, but most phosphatidylcholine is unsaturated and rancid.

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7.
Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores
activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.
Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region 142290, Russia. [email protected]
The effect of dietary supplementation of old rats (26-33 months) with
hydrogenated peanut oil on the activity of mitochondrial enzymes in skeletal
muscles has been studied. The activities of NADH-coenzyme Q1 oxidoreductase,
cytochrome c oxidase, and citrate synthase were determined spectrophotometrically
in muscle homogenates. The activities of respiratory complexes I and IV were
shown to significantly decrease with the age compared to the activity of the same
enzymes in young animals, while the activity of citrate synthase was virtually
unchanged. The fatty acid composition of muscle homogenates of old rats differed
from that of young animals by a reduced content of myristic, oleic, linoleic, and
α-linolenic acids and enhanced content of dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic, and
docosahexaenoic acids. Per oral supplementation of the old rats with hydrogenated
peanut oil completely restored the activity of complex IV and increased the
activity of complex I to 80% of the value observed in muscles of young animals,
reducing the content of stearic, dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic,
eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids relative to that in
the groups of old and young rats. The content of oleic and linoleic acids
increased relatively to that in the group of the old rats, as well as young
animals. The possible mechanisms of the restoration of the activity of the
respiratory enzymes under the administration of hydrogenated peanut oil are
discussed.

Bull Exp Biol Med. 2015 Jun;159(2):266-8.
Correction of Mitochondrial Enzyme Activities in the Skeletal Muscles of Old Rats
in Response to Addition of Olive Oil to the Ration.
Bronnikov GE(1), Kulagina TP, Aripovskii AV, Kramarova LI.
(1)Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region, Russia, [email protected].
Activities of mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes NADH-CoQ
oxidoreductase (complex I), cytochrome C-oxidase (complex IV), and citrate
synthase were measured by spectrophotometry in m. quadriceps femoris homogenate
from old rats receiving olive oil with the ration. Reduced activities of
complexes I and IV in old animals were restored to the level of young animals
after 6-week consumption of olive oil. Activity of citrate synthase did not
change with age. Positive effect of olive oil on fatty-acid composition of the
muscle tissue in old animals was demonstrated. The content of summary
monounsaturated fatty acids, reduced with aging, and of summary polyunsaturated
ones, increasing with age, were restored in old rats to the levels virtually not
differing from the levels of young animals.
 
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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
i believe lecithin has phosphotydlcholine and serine. And other stuff including PUFAs. Lecithin has often been described as very helpful for some people.
 
T

tca300

Guest
haidut said:
post 118941
Westside PUFAs said:
post 118903 The Ray Peat quote on saturated fat that saturated fat enthusiasts do not want to discuss and they ignore it:

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism." - Ray Peat

This is true, but palmitic acid specifically activates the pyruvate dehydrogenase enzyme unlike any other fat. Stearic acid can do the same but it much less potent than palmitic. Peat said it several times and I posted studies on that too. Low pyruvate dehydrogenase activity is found in virtually all disease, especially diabetes and cancer, and aging in general. Thiamine (B1), thyroid, and palmitic acid restore its function.
Also, palmitic acid is crucial for keep the mitochondrial limid cardiolipin saturated. Aging and diseases are all characterized by both decrease in cardiolipin levels and increase in the unsaturation of the composition. Babies have almost fully saturated cardiolipin and very old people have cardiolipin composed almost entirely of omega-6. Cardiolipin is one of the main controllers of cytochrome C oxidase function and the activities of electron transport chains III and IV. Animal studies with phosphatidylcholine showed that it can restore cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels, and eating saturated fat restores its saturated composition.
When you eat sugar in excess you synthesize primarily palmitic acid. Yes, eating tons of fat is not wise but is someone has been ingesting PUFA poison for years, it's better for them to gorge on saturated fat for a while to change the body composition of fats. Otherwise, if they try to lose weight all that PUFA will flood the bloodstream and wreak havoc from which very few people will be able to come out fine.
If eating an excess of sugar converts mostly to palmitic acid couldn't one just eat a really low fat diet with a very large quantity of sugar to get the palmitic acid? From what I've read coconut oil is only about 11% palmitic and butter about 15%. So sugar excess might make more than you would get from coconut or butter maybe??
 
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haidut

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tca300 said:
post 119089
haidut said:
post 118941
Westside PUFAs said:
post 118903 The Ray Peat quote on saturated fat that saturated fat enthusiasts do not want to discuss and they ignore it:

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism." - Ray Peat

This is true, but palmitic acid specifically activates the pyruvate dehydrogenase enzyme unlike any other fat. Stearic acid can do the same but it much less potent than palmitic. Peat said it several times and I posted studies on that too. Low pyruvate dehydrogenase activity is found in virtually all disease, especially diabetes and cancer, and aging in general. Thiamine (B1), thyroid, and palmitic acid restore its function.
Also, palmitic acid is crucial for keep the mitochondrial limid cardiolipin saturated. Aging and diseases are all characterized by both decrease in cardiolipin levels and increase in the unsaturation of the composition. Babies have almost fully saturated cardiolipin and very old people have cardiolipin composed almost entirely of omega-6. Cardiolipin is one of the main controllers of cytochrome C oxidase function and the activities of electron transport chains III and IV. Animal studies with phosphatidylcholine showed that it can restore cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels, and eating saturated fat restores its saturated composition.
When you eat sugar in excess you synthesize primarily palmitic acid. Yes, eating tons of fat is not wise but is someone has been ingesting PUFA poison for years, it's better for them to gorge on saturated fat for a while to change the body composition of fats. Otherwise, if they try to lose weight all that PUFA will flood the bloodstream and wreak havoc from which very few people will be able to come out fine.
If eating an excess of sugar converts mostly to palmitic acid couldn't one just eat a really low fat diet with a very large quantity of sugar to get the palmitic acid? From what I've read coconut oil is only about 11% palmitic and butter about 15%. So sugar excess might make more than you would get from coconut or butter maybe??

Excess sugar does not really start to get converted to fat until you have eaten more than 500g daily. That is a lot even by Peat's standards. So for most people palmitic acid comes from some fatty source.
Diabetic are an exception as they tend to convert even little dietary sugar into fat, but I would not advocate becoming diabetic just to get extra palmitic acid:):
 
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haidut

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brandonk said:
post 119071
haidut said:
post 119063
brandonk said:
post 119044
haidut said:
post 118941 ...Taking phosphatidylcholine restores cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels ...
:confused

You are right, even though it does not say you should take PC it implies it. I will edit my post.
Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:
I think it must depend on the fats in the diet and the type of phosphatidilycholine. If DPPC were cheap, I’d try it, but most phosphatidylcholine is unsaturated and rancid.

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7.
Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores
activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.
Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region 142290, Russia. [email protected]
The effect of dietary supplementation of old rats (26-33 months) with
hydrogenated peanut oil on the activity of mitochondrial enzymes in skeletal
muscles has been studied. The activities of NADH-coenzyme Q1 oxidoreductase,
cytochrome c oxidase, and citrate synthase were determined spectrophotometrically
in muscle homogenates. The activities of respiratory complexes I and IV were
shown to significantly decrease with the age compared to the activity of the same
enzymes in young animals, while the activity of citrate synthase was virtually
unchanged. The fatty acid composition of muscle homogenates of old rats differed
from that of young animals by a reduced content of myristic, oleic, linoleic, and
α-linolenic acids and enhanced content of dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic, and
docosahexaenoic acids. Per oral supplementation of the old rats with hydrogenated
peanut oil completely restored the activity of complex IV and increased the
activity of complex I to 80% of the value observed in muscles of young animals,
reducing the content of stearic, dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic,
eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids relative to that in
the groups of old and young rats. The content of oleic and linoleic acids
increased relatively to that in the group of the old rats, as well as young
animals. The possible mechanisms of the restoration of the activity of the
respiratory enzymes under the administration of hydrogenated peanut oil are
discussed.

Bull Exp Biol Med. 2015 Jun;159(2):266-8.
Correction of Mitochondrial Enzyme Activities in the Skeletal Muscles of Old Rats
in Response to Addition of Olive Oil to the Ration.
Bronnikov GE(1), Kulagina TP, Aripovskii AV, Kramarova LI.
(1)Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region, Russia, [email protected].
Activities of mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes NADH-CoQ
oxidoreductase (complex I), cytochrome C-oxidase (complex IV), and citrate
synthase were measured by spectrophotometry in m. quadriceps femoris homogenate
from old rats receiving olive oil with the ration. Reduced activities of
complexes I and IV in old animals were restored to the level of young animals
after 6-week consumption of olive oil. Activity of citrate synthase did not
change with age. Positive effect of olive oil on fatty-acid composition of the
muscle tissue in old animals was demonstrated. The content of summary
monounsaturated fatty acids, reduced with aging, and of summary polyunsaturated
ones, increasing with age, were restored in old rats to the levels virtually not
differing from the levels of young animals.

Actually, I do. I am working on a supplement with DPPC. If you are still communicating with Peat can you please ask him what dose he thinks would be beneficial for health support. I am not asking about any specific conditions.
I have a few animal studies on using DPPC directly to combat infections and the dose used was quite low so I am curious to hear what Ray would say is optimal.
 
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T

tca300

Guest
haidut said:
post 119214
tca300 said:
post 119089
haidut said:
post 118941
Westside PUFAs said:
post 118903 The Ray Peat quote on saturated fat that saturated fat enthusiasts do not want to discuss and they ignore it:

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism." - Ray Peat

This is true, but palmitic acid specifically activates the pyruvate dehydrogenase enzyme unlike any other fat. Stearic acid can do the same but it much less potent than palmitic. Peat said it several times and I posted studies on that too. Low pyruvate dehydrogenase activity is found in virtually all disease, especially diabetes and cancer, and aging in general. Thiamine (B1), thyroid, and palmitic acid restore its function.
Also, palmitic acid is crucial for keep the mitochondrial limid cardiolipin saturated. Aging and diseases are all characterized by both decrease in cardiolipin levels and increase in the unsaturation of the composition. Babies have almost fully saturated cardiolipin and very old people have cardiolipin composed almost entirely of omega-6. Cardiolipin is one of the main controllers of cytochrome C oxidase function and the activities of electron transport chains III and IV. Animal studies with phosphatidylcholine showed that it can restore cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels, and eating saturated fat restores its saturated composition.
When you eat sugar in excess you synthesize primarily palmitic acid. Yes, eating tons of fat is not wise but is someone has been ingesting PUFA poison for years, it's better for them to gorge on saturated fat for a while to change the body composition of fats. Otherwise, if they try to lose weight all that PUFA will flood the bloodstream and wreak havoc from which very few people will be able to come out fine.
If eating an excess of sugar converts mostly to palmitic acid couldn't one just eat a really low fat diet with a very large quantity of sugar to get the palmitic acid? From what I've read coconut oil is only about 11% palmitic and butter about 15%. So sugar excess might make more than you would get from coconut or butter maybe??

Excess sugar does not really start to get converted to fat until you have eaten more than 500g daily. That is a lot even by Peat's standards. So for most people palmitic acid comes from some fatty source.
Diabetic are an exception as they tend to convert even little dietary sugar into fat, but I would not advocate becoming diabetic just to get extra palmitic acid:):
Thanks for the response! And I understand most people don't consume over 300 or so grams of sugar but I personally consume 800+ grams regularly.
 
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phobologe

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So, if your goal is boosting your metabolism and if you comsume far more than 500g a day, is it better to avoid coconut oil?
I'm also thinking of the benefits like intestinal situation ...
 
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I'm experimenting with this. I see a lot of studies that show coconut oil raises metabolism. I'm trying 4 or more tablespoons a day.
 

haidut

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phobologe said:
post 119233 So, if your goal is boosting your metabolism and if you comsume far more than 500g a day, is it better to avoid coconut oil?
I'm also thinking of the benefits like intestinal situation ...

If losing weight is your goal then it's probably best to stick to high-sugar and low-ish fat diet (including coconut oil). Ray himself does not recommend more than 2 tbps daily for most people. High dose coconut oil does have its uses as a treatment for liver disease. Animal studies showed reversal of alcoholic cirrhosis in rats (EVEN with continued drinking) from human equivalent dose of 50g-60g daily for 2 weeks.
 
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brandonk

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
145
haidut said:
post 119217
brandonk said:
post 119071
haidut said:
post 119063
brandonk said:
post 119044
haidut said:
post 118941 ...Taking phosphatidylcholine restores cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels ...
:confused

You are right, even though it does not say you should take PC it implies it. I will edit my post.
Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:
I think it must depend on the fats in the diet and the type of phosphatidilycholine. If DPPC were cheap, I’d try it, but most phosphatidylcholine is unsaturated and rancid.

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7.
Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores
activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.
Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region 142290, Russia. [email protected]
The effect of dietary supplementation of old rats (26-33 months) with
hydrogenated peanut oil on the activity of mitochondrial enzymes in skeletal
muscles has been studied. The activities of NADH-coenzyme Q1 oxidoreductase,
cytochrome c oxidase, and citrate synthase were determined spectrophotometrically
in muscle homogenates. The activities of respiratory complexes I and IV were
shown to significantly decrease with the age compared to the activity of the same
enzymes in young animals, while the activity of citrate synthase was virtually
unchanged. The fatty acid composition of muscle homogenates of old rats differed
from that of young animals by a reduced content of myristic, oleic, linoleic, and
α-linolenic acids and enhanced content of dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic, and
docosahexaenoic acids. Per oral supplementation of the old rats with hydrogenated
peanut oil completely restored the activity of complex IV and increased the
activity of complex I to 80% of the value observed in muscles of young animals,
reducing the content of stearic, dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic,
eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids relative to that in
the groups of old and young rats. The content of oleic and linoleic acids
increased relatively to that in the group of the old rats, as well as young
animals. The possible mechanisms of the restoration of the activity of the
respiratory enzymes under the administration of hydrogenated peanut oil are
discussed.

Bull Exp Biol Med. 2015 Jun;159(2):266-8.
Correction of Mitochondrial Enzyme Activities in the Skeletal Muscles of Old Rats
in Response to Addition of Olive Oil to the Ration.
Bronnikov GE(1), Kulagina TP, Aripovskii AV, Kramarova LI.
(1)Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region, Russia, [email protected].
Activities of mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes NADH-CoQ
oxidoreductase (complex I), cytochrome C-oxidase (complex IV), and citrate
synthase were measured by spectrophotometry in m. quadriceps femoris homogenate
from old rats receiving olive oil with the ration. Reduced activities of
complexes I and IV in old animals were restored to the level of young animals
after 6-week consumption of olive oil. Activity of citrate synthase did not
change with age. Positive effect of olive oil on fatty-acid composition of the
muscle tissue in old animals was demonstrated. The content of summary
monounsaturated fatty acids, reduced with aging, and of summary polyunsaturated
ones, increasing with age, were restored in old rats to the levels virtually not
differing from the levels of young animals.

Actually, I do. I am working on a supplement with DPPC. If you are still communicating with Peat can you please ask him what dose he thinks would be beneficial for health support. I am not asking about any specific conditions.
I have a few animal studies on using DPPC directly to combat infections and the dose used was quite low so I am curious to hear what Ray would say is optimal.
He writes, "I think I would start with about 300 mg with each meal."
 
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haidut

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Messages
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brandonk said:
post 119301
haidut said:
post 119217
brandonk said:
post 119071
haidut said:
post 119063
brandonk said:
post 119044
haidut said:
post 118941 ...Taking phosphatidylcholine restores cardiolipin levels back to youthful levels ...
:confused

You are right, even though it does not say you should take PC it implies it. I will edit my post.
Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:
I think it must depend on the fats in the diet and the type of phosphatidilycholine. If DPPC were cheap, I’d try it, but most phosphatidylcholine is unsaturated and rancid.

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7.
Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores
activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.
Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region 142290, Russia. [email protected]
The effect of dietary supplementation of old rats (26-33 months) with
hydrogenated peanut oil on the activity of mitochondrial enzymes in skeletal
muscles has been studied. The activities of NADH-coenzyme Q1 oxidoreductase,
cytochrome c oxidase, and citrate synthase were determined spectrophotometrically
in muscle homogenates. The activities of respiratory complexes I and IV were
shown to significantly decrease with the age compared to the activity of the same
enzymes in young animals, while the activity of citrate synthase was virtually
unchanged. The fatty acid composition of muscle homogenates of old rats differed
from that of young animals by a reduced content of myristic, oleic, linoleic, and
α-linolenic acids and enhanced content of dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic, and
docosahexaenoic acids. Per oral supplementation of the old rats with hydrogenated
peanut oil completely restored the activity of complex IV and increased the
activity of complex I to 80% of the value observed in muscles of young animals,
reducing the content of stearic, dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic,
eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids relative to that in
the groups of old and young rats. The content of oleic and linoleic acids
increased relatively to that in the group of the old rats, as well as young
animals. The possible mechanisms of the restoration of the activity of the
respiratory enzymes under the administration of hydrogenated peanut oil are
discussed.

Bull Exp Biol Med. 2015 Jun;159(2):266-8.
Correction of Mitochondrial Enzyme Activities in the Skeletal Muscles of Old Rats
in Response to Addition of Olive Oil to the Ration.
Bronnikov GE(1), Kulagina TP, Aripovskii AV, Kramarova LI.
(1)Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region, Russia, [email protected].
Activities of mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes NADH-CoQ
oxidoreductase (complex I), cytochrome C-oxidase (complex IV), and citrate
synthase were measured by spectrophotometry in m. quadriceps femoris homogenate
from old rats receiving olive oil with the ration. Reduced activities of
complexes I and IV in old animals were restored to the level of young animals
after 6-week consumption of olive oil. Activity of citrate synthase did not
change with age. Positive effect of olive oil on fatty-acid composition of the
muscle tissue in old animals was demonstrated. The content of summary
monounsaturated fatty acids, reduced with aging, and of summary polyunsaturated
ones, increasing with age, were restored in old rats to the levels virtually not
differing from the levels of young animals.

Actually, I do. I am working on a supplement with DPPC. If you are still communicating with Peat can you please ask him what dose he thinks would be beneficial for health support. I am not asking about any specific conditions.
I have a few animal studies on using DPPC directly to combat infections and the dose used was quite low so I am curious to hear what Ray would say is optimal.
He writes, "I think I would start with about 300 mg with each meal."

OK, thanks. I will have to find a cheaper source since wholesale prices for 1g DPPC start at $120 and at his dose a 30-day supply would be very expensive. Or find a way to saturate unsaturated plain PC.
 
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brandonk

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Makrosky

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Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
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brandonk said:
Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:
I think it must depend on the fats in the diet and the type of phosphatidilycholine. If DPPC were cheap, I’d try it, but most phosphatidylcholine is unsaturated and rancid.

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7.
Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores
activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.
Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region 142290, Russia. [email protected]
The effect of dietary supplementation of old rats (26-33 months) with
hydrogenated peanut oil on the activity of mitochondrial enzymes in skeletal
muscles has been studied. The activities of NADH-coenzyme Q1 oxidoreductase,
cytochrome c oxidase, and citrate synthase were determined spectrophotometrically
in muscle homogenates. The activities of respiratory complexes I and IV were
shown to significantly decrease with the age compared to the activity of the same
enzymes in young animals, while the activity of citrate synthase was virtually
unchanged. The fatty acid composition of muscle homogenates of old rats differed
from that of young animals by a reduced content of myristic, oleic, linoleic, and
α-linolenic acids and enhanced content of dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic, and
docosahexaenoic acids. Per oral supplementation of the old rats with hydrogenated
peanut oil completely restored the activity of complex IV and increased the
activity of complex I to 80% of the value observed in muscles of young animals,
reducing the content of stearic, dihomo-γ-linolenic, arachidonic,
eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids relative to that in
the groups of old and young rats. The content of oleic and linoleic acids
increased relatively to that in the group of the old rats, as well as young
animals. The possible mechanisms of the restoration of the activity of the
respiratory enzymes under the administration of hydrogenated peanut oil are
discussed.

Bull Exp Biol Med. 2015 Jun;159(2):266-8.
Correction of Mitochondrial Enzyme Activities in the Skeletal Muscles of Old Rats
in Response to Addition of Olive Oil to the Ration.
Bronnikov GE(1), Kulagina TP, Aripovskii AV, Kramarova LI.
(1)Institute of Cell Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Pushchino, Moscow
Region, Russia, [email protected].
Activities of mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes NADH-CoQ
oxidoreductase (complex I), cytochrome C-oxidase (complex IV), and citrate
synthase were measured by spectrophotometry in m. quadriceps femoris homogenate
from old rats receiving olive oil with the ration. Reduced activities of
complexes I and IV in old animals were restored to the level of young animals
after 6-week consumption of olive oil. Activity of citrate synthase did not
change with age. Positive effect of olive oil on fatty-acid composition of the
muscle tissue in old animals was demonstrated. The content of summary
monounsaturated fatty acids, reduced with aging, and of summary polyunsaturated
ones, increasing with age, were restored in old rats to the levels virtually not
differing from the levels of young animals.

I don't get it. Peanut oil is only 23% saturated according to wikipedia yet it restored the mitochondrial respiration of the rats???

That's not a Peat friendly oil at all!
 

tara

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Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
milk_lover said:
post 118998 We need to enjoy food, it's supposed to be fun.
:)

Nicholas said:
post 118911
FFA increase would be more relative to not meeting the demands of the body than it does to saturated fat or PUFA in the diet. The stereotypical scenario is the person who over-exercises. I can't imagine a situation where "FFA increase" would be relative to an increase in fat in the diet.....and i don't think that's what Peat is even talking about here.
I think you can get high FFA from various stresses like overexercise, but also from high fat meals.
 
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haidut

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brandonk said:
post 119324 Hydrogenate it? which might also help preserve it against rancidity. Ray Peat's been trying fully hydrogenated coconut oil, since it's the PUFAs in coconut oil that he's said may limit its use.

This experiment got hydrogenated egg yolk PC from Avanti:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/131/9/2358.long

Hydrogenated phosphatidylcholine supplementation reduces hepatic lipid levels in mice fed a high-fat diet:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... h-fat_diet

If you look at the Avanti page on all of their PC-related products you will see that the egg PC is several times more expensive that the plain DPPC. They also have organ-derived DPPC and the prices on those are astronomical.
Hydrogenation cannot really be done in a non-industrial grade lab as it is expensive and dangerous. So, my only option is to either add iodine, which will saturated it or mix with tocopherol, which Ray said can also saturate PUFA.
 
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michael94

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Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
2,419
Artificial stimulation of dopamine...And what would you consider non-artificial stimulators of dopamine? Dopamine responses from food seem as natural as you can get, because it's directly maintaining the energy and structure of the organism. Do you not enjoy food and think no one else should either?
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
man, I think food and sex are reasons to live. I don't share the idea of food=fuel.

I think that's natural, as "having an appetite" is a wonderful thing -- of course, not out of control but having one. When you get old, what happens?

You don't have an appetite. You don't have a sex drive. You're not hungry. Blech.
 

Nicholas

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Westside PUFAs said:
post 119335
tara said:
post 119330
milk_lover said:
post 118998 We need to enjoy food, it's supposed to be fun.

I disagree. We should eat to live, not live to eat. Living to eat is what causes the problems of dietary excess, the artificial stimulation of dopamine. This is whats called the dietary "pleasure trap."

i agree as well. because food is something that can so easily be pleasurable, it's easy to get confused by that stimulation. just like everything else, i believe there are seasons for pleasure and seasons of more utility.
 
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tara

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Westside PUFAs said:
post 119335 I disagree. We should eat to live, not live to eat. Living to eat is what causes the problems of dietary excess, the artificial stimulation of dopamine. This is whats called the dietary "pleasure trap."

Well, I don't think living only to eat makes sense, but enjoying one's food probably aids in good digestion, and since we have to do it often, why not enjoy it?

I do think addictive pulls can sometimes get associated with particular foods, or with overeating, but I don't think you improve those by not enjoying food. Such addictions may be a distortion of natural instincts that lead us to choose food that tastes good. If they are not too badly distorted by other stresses, such instincts can often give us important, though not always reliable, guidance on what we need.
In a culture where food that tastes good is often treated as morally bad, it can get confusing. Some people get into trouble by overeating particular foods out of balance, maybe because of addiction, but also because of the economics and politics of food availability. But some people get into trouble by the opposite means - denial leading to undernutrition leading to reduced metabolism and weaker structure.

ecstatichamster said:
post 119341 as "having an appetite" is a wonderful thing
I agree.
Personally, not having an appetite happens when I am particularly unwell.
 
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