Saturated Fats And Mitochondrias

Thanks, I would feel very bad if people were actually taking the phosphatidilycholine that I've seen available. Now if idealabs has a cheap source for DPPC, Ray Peat emailed this:

 

i believe lecithin has phosphotydlcholine and serine. And other stuff including PUFAs. Lecithin has often been described as very helpful for some people.

 

If eating an excess of sugar converts mostly to palmitic acid couldn't one just eat a really low fat diet with a very large quantity of sugar to get the palmitic acid? From what I've read coconut oil is only about 11% palmitic and butter about 15%. So sugar excess might make more than you would get from coconut or butter maybe??

 

Excess sugar does not really start to get converted to fat until you have eaten more than 500g daily. That is a lot even by Peat's standards. So for most people palmitic acid comes from some fatty source.
Diabetic are an exception as they tend to convert even little dietary sugar into fat, but I would not advocate becoming diabetic just to get extra palmitic acid

 

Actually, I do. I am working on a supplement with DPPC. If you are still communicating with Peat can you please ask him what dose he thinks would be beneficial for health support. I am not asking about any specific conditions.
I have a few animal studies on using DPPC directly to combat infections and the dose used was quite low so I am curious to hear what Ray would say is optimal.

 

Thanks for the response! And I understand most people don't consume over 300 or so grams of sugar but I personally consume 800+ grams regularly.

 

So, if your goal is boosting your metabolism and if you comsume far more than 500g a day, is it better to avoid coconut oil?
I'm also thinking of the benefits like intestinal situation ...

 

I'm experimenting with this. I see a lot of studies that show coconut oil raises metabolism. I'm trying 4 or more tablespoons a day.

 

If losing weight is your goal then it's probably best to stick to high-sugar and low-ish fat diet (including coconut oil). Ray himself does not recommend more than 2 tbps daily for most people. High dose coconut oil does have its uses as a treatment for liver disease. Animal studies showed reversal of alcoholic cirrhosis in rats (EVEN with continued drinking) from human equivalent dose of 50g-60g daily for 2 weeks.

 

He writes, "I think I would start with about 300 mg with each meal."

 

OK, thanks. I will have to find a cheaper source since wholesale prices for 1g DPPC start at $120 and at his dose a 30-day supply would be very expensive. Or find a way to saturate unsaturated plain PC.

 

Hydrogenate it? which might also help preserve it against rancidity. Ray Peat's been trying fully hydrogenated coconut oil, since it's the PUFAs in coconut oil that he's said may limit its use.

This experiment got hydrogenated egg yolk PC from Avanti:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/131/9/2358.long

Hydrogenated phosphatidylcholine supplementation reduces hepatic lipid levels in mice fed a high-fat diet:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... h-fat_diet

 

I don't get it. Peanut oil is only 23% saturated according to wikipedia yet it restored the mitochondrial respiration of the rats???

That's not a Peat friendly oil at all!

 

:)

I think you can get high FFA from various stresses like overexercise, but also from high fat meals.

 

If you look at the Avanti page on all of their PC-related products you will see that the egg PC is several times more expensive that the plain DPPC. They also have organ-derived DPPC and the prices on those are astronomical.
Hydrogenation cannot really be done in a non-industrial grade lab as it is expensive and dangerous. So, my only option is to either add iodine, which will saturated it or mix with tocopherol, which Ray said can also saturate PUFA.

 

I disagree. We should eat to live, not live to eat. Living to eat is what causes the problems of dietary excess, the artificial stimulation of dopamine. This is whats called the dietary "pleasure trap."

 

Artificial stimulation of dopamine...And what would you consider non-artificial stimulators of dopamine? Dopamine responses from food seem as natural as you can get, because it's directly maintaining the energy and structure of the organism. Do you not enjoy food and think no one else should either?

 

man, I think food and sex are reasons to live. I don't share the idea of food=fuel.

I think that's natural, as "having an appetite" is a wonderful thing -- of course, not out of control but having one. When you get old, what happens?

You don't have an appetite. You don't have a sex drive. You're not hungry. Blech.

 

i agree as well. because food is something that can so easily be pleasurable, it's easy to get confused by that stimulation. just like everything else, i believe there are seasons for pleasure and seasons of more utility.

 

Well, I don't think living only to eat makes sense, but enjoying one's food probably aids in good digestion, and since we have to do it often, why not enjoy it?

I do think addictive pulls can sometimes get associated with particular foods, or with overeating, but I don't think you improve those by not enjoying food. Such addictions may be a distortion of natural instincts that lead us to choose food that tastes good. If they are not too badly distorted by other stresses, such instincts can often give us important, though not always reliable, guidance on what we need.
In a culture where food that tastes good is often treated as morally bad, it can get confusing. Some people get into trouble by overeating particular foods out of balance, maybe because of addiction, but also because of the economics and politics of food availability. But some people get into trouble by the opposite means - denial leading to undernutrition leading to reduced metabolism and weaker structure.

I agree.
Personally, not having an appetite happens when I am particularly unwell.