Saturated Fat Allows Bacteria To Translocate

[Makrosky]

Yep, read it and many others like it before. If you are interested in why I think there is more to this subject than what some peoples’ reductionist binary logic might suppose, look at my other posts over the past couple months. I’m tired of being pushed in to repeating my case over and over for those who can’t bother to just read what I have shared, like a hundred studies and papers which corroborate my hypothesis, many human studies. I’m being trolled for simply having my own opinion and sharing some thoughts. I basically have no reason to be on this forum anymore because I finally have reached an excellent state of health... I guess I should just leave. I’m better off compiling my thoughts and sharing them with people who are not locked in to some dogmatic diet based off the works of a scientist who cherry picks his data too. Ooh but it is all about the context. Perfect way to deny any responsibility for ones thoughts. Let’s face it, the man has painted himself in to a corner and is taking you all for a ride. Have fun on your thyroid meds and antibiotics guys. Have fun breeding those superbugs too!

BYE BYE!

P.S. when the inevitable human studies come out which prove everything that I am at the moment saying is highly probable to be true (High dietary SFA diet leading to bacterial translocation leading to chronic disease). I will return here to post that study and hey maybe then you will have learned some common decency??

P.S. do yourself a huge favor and read all works by the scientist Douglas B. Kell, he knows more about this topic than anyone and is going to revolutionize health care through his research.

Now that you mention Dr. Kell...

Do you know what is this lypopolysacharide binding protein he mentions in many of his articles? As I understand it is a protein that binds LPS thus inactivating it.

Where can I score some of that protein brah?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I am not against you, I just shared what I found and to be honest I will not ever switch to sunflower oil or other oil like this. I did my research and experimentation when it comes to my goal, fat like cocoa butter or shea butter (high with stearic acid) are the type of fat I prefer when it comes to building good health, I am looking good and can even drink alot of alcohol if I want so for me its win win. Given the last changes that occured here, I will write my opinion about this even I dont like doing it because most members will feel like I attacked them. I like to see studies that you posted because that is the only way how to find the truth but I dont like when somebody is attacking others just to prove that he is right. I am not saying that you did it. If you want to change opinion of somebody, the only way how to do this is through good question but given the fact the most people here are like sheeps its hard to do. If you found something irritating, why dont you ignore it? The fact that you want to go away from this forum means that you are feeling being attacked but its not true, people are just posting their opinions but its not attack. If you want to feel better about your opinion you can go to "Poison A" thread and you will feel better because you will be writting with people who will tell you that its truth because They have same opinion just because They find something new and it helped them even They dont know why or are feeling attacked by asking good questions. This is just example of stupidity and conformity to be unable to find the truth. I am very sorry for being emotional but I tried to show some ligh in the dark.

Sorry, that last post started as a response to you and then shifted over to my response to a handful of people who wont stop trying to belittle me here. Most have been on ignore but then they derail threads quickly by attempting to make others think I must be an idiot... we can all do without the bullying here.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Now that you mention Dr. Kell...

Do you know what is this lypopolysacharide binding protein he mentions in many of his articles? As I understand it is a protein that binds LPS thus inactivating it.

Where can I score some of that protein brah?

I think lactoferrin may possess similar properties. Anyway you or anyone is free to pm me your email and we can stay in touch, tired of the b.s. here.

 

[TeaRex14]

Substituting juice for carbs is better than going keto, but it is a similar problem for me, I could never get my temp up past 98 this way, I need starch.

It's very likely the reason starch responds better to you is because it has a higher calorie to water ratio. I've seen this in countless of testimonies, including my own. Most forms of sugar out here typically have a high water content like fruits, juice, soda, milk, etc. The high water to calorie ratio blunts temp increases, but this can be corrected by eating more salt.

 

[Constatine]

In captain coconuts defense I do agree with him that saturated fats can increase endotoxin load and induce bacteria translocation under certain conditions. It is true that some saturated fats can benefit the gut for an example palm oil can increase intestinal iga concentrations and coconut oil can maintain the gut microbiome even when used in excess (though coconut oil can also increase endotoxin translocation quite a lot, but it is also protective against endotoxin at least in terms of tissue damage and mortality). But saturated fats can be damaging for some people with gut dysbiosis. Not as damaging as vegetable based pufas but damaging nonetheless.
It does seem that a lot of saturated fats paradoxically increase endotoxin load while protecting against endotoxin damage. This is similar to glucans effect on the gut where by mimicking harmful substances the immune system is activated. Administering small amounts of endotoxin can actually have a protective effect on the gut for similar reasons. There is some evidence, specifically saturated fats effect on the immune system (like decreased il6 with coconut oil) that make me think that this is not the mechanisms of action but it is a possibility.
It's worth noting that increased bacteria translocation, while generally a very bad thing, can also be a consequence of an immune response that reduces bacteria load.
For those worried about bacteria translocation caffeine is perhaps one of the most efficient inhibitors of bacteria translocation for both the intestines and other organs like the liver or spleen.
Regarding conduct we need to remember that these are intellectual conversations and not personal ones. When we identify with our ideas (not ideals) it can make any challenge to our ideas feel like a personal attack and thus we respond in kind. Such identity is how dogma emerges and how intellectual discourse degenerates to name calling.

 

[Fractality]

Can someone explain to me what the implications of bacterial translocation are?

 

[Makrosky]

Can someone explain to me what the implications of bacterial translocation are?

LOL. I didn't dear to ask for it but yeah it would be nice if someone could explain it briefly.

 

[Constatine]

Can someone explain to me what the implications of bacterial translocation are?

Bacteria translocation is the moving of bacteria through various tissues, mostly from the intestines to the bloodstream or even just the deeper tissues of the intestines but also to other tissues as well (brain, liver, kidney, etc). All our tissues have varying bacterial loads (total bacteria in the tissue) that tend to increase when bacteria translocate from the gut. This translocation also invokes an immune response that protects our body from invading bacteria but has many implications of its own. Many diseases and conditions are associated with higher bacteria translocation. The extreme result of bacteria translocation is sepsis (either due to an excessive immune response or just high bacterial load). Bacteria translocation have all the same implications as endotoxin as they invoke the same immune response though bacteria translocation is worse as it is alive and can replicate in tissues and lead to more lasting negative effects. Any gut disease (as far as I know) is associated with higher bacterial translocation which is responsible for many of its perceived negative effects. Also when these bacteria are killed in tissues by the immune system they release endotoxin in said tissues.

 

[Fractality]

Bacteria translocation is the moving of bacteria through various tissues, mostly from the intestines to the bloodstream or even just the deeper tissues of the intestines but also to other tissues as well (brain, liver, kidney, etc). All our tissues have varying bacterial loads (total bacteria in the tissue) that tend to increase when bacteria translocate from the gut. This translocation also invokes an immune response that protects our body from invading bacteria but has many implications of its own. Many diseases and conditions are associated with higher bacteria translocation. The extreme result of bacteria translocation is sepsis (either due to an excessive immune response or just high bacterial load). Bacteria translocation have all the same implications as endotoxin as they invoke the same immune response though bacteria translocation is worse as it is alive and can replicate in tissues and lead to more lasting negative effects. Any gut disease (as far as I know) is associated with higher bacterial translocation which is responsible for many of its perceived negative effects. Also when these bacteria are killed in tissues by the immune system they release endotoxin in said tissues.

I'm having trouble reconciling this with the notion that saturated fats are anti-bacterial. Is it possible that saturated fats can simultaneously kill bacteria and also spread them around the body? This is important to me since I have a rather high saturated fat intake at times (upwards of 100 grams a day).

 

[Kartoffel]

I'm having trouble reconciling this with the notion that saturated fats are anti-bacterial. Is it possible that saturated fats can simultaneously kill bacteria and also spread them around the body? This is important to me since I have a rather high saturated fat intake at times (upwards of 100 grams a day).

They don't spread bacteria throughout the body.

 

[Constatine]

I'm having trouble reconciling this with the notion that saturated fats are anti-bacterial. Is it possible that saturated fats can simultaneously kill bacteria and also spread them around the body? This is important to me since I have a rather high saturated fat intake at times (upwards of 100 grams a day).

Certain immune responses that kill bacteria can also cause it to translocate. I think translocation to a certain degree may be required to kill bacteria (though it's hard finding studies about this subject). That said I don't think all saturated fats are very antibacterial.

 

[Waynish]

I just read the first page so far... Let me just settle this for you all:
1) Saturated fats (and other fats) will cause problems for some.
2) Carbs, including non-starchy carbs, will cause problems in some.
3) Proteins, of various types, will cause problems in some.

 

[Cirion]

I think @olive had the answer right... Step 1: Don't mix fats and carbs in a meal... Step 2... Profit

Unfortunately, there is RAMPANT recommendations to mix fats and carbs in a meal here, which I'm now starting to think is pretty much the cause of all failed RP inspired-diets and why the success rate of people around here seems abysmal.

Ice cream, Cheese with OJ/sugar, Fatty milk, Fatty beef w/ sugar/starch, Starch with fats, Chocolate...

All of these are EXCELLENT ways of adding inflammation to the body due to the randle cycle and yet, most of these are "RP Diet Staples". Very unfortunate that all of these continue to be promoted in virtually every thread on these forums. I used to be a believer in all those food combinations also, but finally, I realize why I've been unable to get better or lose weight.

 

[Ron J]

I think @olive had the answer right... Step 1: Don't mix fats and carbs in a meal... Step 2... Profit

Unfortunately, there is RAMPANT recommendations to mix fats and carbs in a meal here, which I'm now starting to think is pretty much the cause of all failed RP inspired-diets and why the success rate of people around here seems abysmal.

Ice cream, Cheese with OJ/sugar, Fatty milk, Fatty beef w/ sugar/starch, Starch with fats, Chocolate...

All of these are EXCELLENT ways of adding inflammation to the body due to the randle cycle and yet, most of these are "RP Diet Staples". Very unfortunate that all of these continue to be promoted in virtually every thread on these forums. I used to be a believer in all those food combinations also, but finally, I realize why I've been unable to get better or lose weight.

I thought Ray Peat recommended low to moderate fat; since Ray Peat is pro sat fat/coconut oil, some members(including myself) went overboard with fat consumption. I think at least one meal should be mixed with fat for fat soluble vitamins, and your muscle mass/metabolism should take care of any weight gain(if any) from that meal.

 

[Cirion]

I thought Ray Peat recommended low to moderate fat; since Ray Peat is pro sat fat/coconut oil, some members(including myself) went overboard with fat consumption. I think at least one meal should be mixed with fat for fat soluble vitamins, and your muscle mass/metabolism should take care of any weight gain(if any) from that meal.

RP himself tends to eat lower fat this is true. However, a lot of people on these forums mis-represent his views and/or mis-interpret them. Also, there are many people that as we speak are actively eating high-fat diets and one or two that are even eating keto (don't ask me why the keto people are even here LOL). Nathan hatch is a well known name (because of his book he wrote) that also promotes pretty high fat eating (he said he ate a stick of butter a day during recovery lol).

For a while I was holding the view you have and of RP.

Now, I'm starting to think though the issue is NOT fat, nor is it carbs (like keto advocates say) - it is the MIXING of fats and carbs that is the problem (Randle cycle). So this means - no more ice cream, no more fatty milk, no more cheese WITH orange juice, no more butter with starch, etcetera... BUT cheese alone, low fat milks, starch alone, butter with low fat carbs (like cook veggies in butter), are OK...

Now, I personally blame Ice cream as the #1 reason I got fat. Ice cream is loaded with fat AND sugar. A horrible combo for randle cycle. It's worth noting I always got bad brain fog after eating ice cream. Now I know why.

 

[Andman]

I think @olive had the answer right... Step 1: Don't mix fats and carbs in a meal... Step 2... Profit

Unfortunately, there is RAMPANT recommendations to mix fats and carbs in a meal here, which I'm now starting to think is pretty much the cause of all failed RP inspired-diets and why the success rate of people around here seems abysmal.

Ice cream, Cheese with OJ/sugar, Fatty milk, Fatty beef w/ sugar/starch, Starch with fats, Chocolate...

All of these are EXCELLENT ways of adding inflammation to the body due to the randle cycle and yet, most of these are "RP Diet Staples". Very unfortunate that all of these continue to be promoted in virtually every thread on these forums. I used to be a believer in all those food combinations also, but finally, I realize why I've been unable to get better or lose weight.

bro no offense but didnt you eat like 4000+ kcal?
overeating by itself is inflammatory, i believe there is a peat quote on that even

 

[Cirion]

bro no offense but didnt you eat like 4000+ kcal?
overeating by itself is inflammatory, i believe there is a peat quote on that even

You're not necessarily wrong, but I do have a fast metabolism, and there are many on these forums that eat 4000+ cal and are very lean. Restricting food intake is not the answer, I still believe this 100%. But being smart about what foods you eat, when, and what combinations is key. Literally, eating 4000 calories of the exact same foods but only changing the timing can mean the difference between weight gain and loss I now believe. ie - Eating all your fats in the morning and all the carbs at night instead of 50/50 fat and carb in morning, and dinner (but same caloric intake).

I believe that because it is inflammation that drives weight gain or loss. Which you essentially alluded to. Randle cycle = inflammation.

Looking at intake through the lens of simply calories is extremely simplistic and misses the big picture. Yes, you can reduce caloric intake and it reduces the effects of the randle cycle. I agree. But again, that misses the big picture solution.

 

[Andman]

You're not necessarily wrong, but I do have a fast metabolism, and there are many on these forums that eat 4000+ cal and are very lean. Restricting food intake is not the answer, I still believe this 100%. But being smart about what foods you eat, when, and what combinations is key. Literally, eating 4000 calories of the exact same foods but only changing the timing can mean the difference between weight gain and loss I now believe. ie - Eating all your fats in the morning and all the carbs at night instead of 50/50 fat and carb in morning, and dinner (but same caloric intake).

Looking at intake through the lens of simply calories is extremely simplistic and misses the big picture. Yes, you can reduce caloric intake and it reduces the effects of the randle cycle. I agree. But again, that misses the big picture solution.

i get what you mean but obviously it didnt work out for you. why not stay with the basics first and then experiment when youre pufa-depleted and/or weight stable at desired body fat%?

who are those people that can eat 4000+ kcal daily while staying very lean?

 

[Cirion]

i get what you mean but obviously it didnt work out for you. why not stay with the basics first and then experiment when youre pufa-depleted and/or weight stable at desired body fat%?

who are those people that can eat 4000+ kcal daily while staying very lean?

Yeah you're right it didn't work for me. That's why I no longer eat some foods at all anymore (like ice cream or fatty milk) and any fatty foods I do still eat will never be eaten with carbs again.

@Hans I believe is on 4000 a day. @Kelj is a woman and I forget her intake, but I want to say it's in the 3000-4000 range (that's arguably even more impressive).

Eating higher intake DOES take more intelligence, which is why most fail at it. I refuse to give up on it because I KNOW it can be done and I KNOW that chronic high caloric intake is the KEY to optimal health (while maintaining a lean body and low inflammation). That's when you really have to start taking the microscope to your diet, because ANYTHING you do wrong at a high caloric intake CAN have negative effects on you (Like randle cycle). the RC will absolutely 100% hurt you much much more on high caloric intake than a lower caloric intake, thus you might even be able to get away with ice cream, fatty milk, etcetera, with low calories. Just look at ridiculous diets like the Twinkie diet. It works because the man only ate 1,400 calories a day. But it was in no way shape or form a healthy diet. Low calories and awful nutrient quality.

I have been eating VLF for a couple months now but still don't feel quite right, so that's why I've come to the conclusion that a zero fat / VLF diet is not the answer either. It does alleviate the effects of the randle cycle, so 100% it's absolutely healthier than a high fat high carb diet that mixes the two in every meal, but there is also research that shows that anywhere from 25-40% of calories from fat results in optimal androgen production (provided you don't mix them with carbs - this was the missing key that I finally realized).

 

[Andman]

Im just saying that in the span of a few days ive seen you jumping from protein good -> bad -> maybe good again, same for carbs, fat and i believe vitamin A. maybe i got a wrong impression and again, i mean no offense.

could it be that youre majoring in the minors so to speak? feeding high calories for its own sake when its clearly not working (iE unwanted fat gain) doesnt seem like an intelligent nutrition strategy to me.

oh and i believe @Hans is a lifter, so higher calories def. neccessary