Sample report for steroid analysis in hair/nails

[haidut]

I have been getting a lot of requests for posting a sample report on the forum, so here it is below. Please keep in mind that it a work in progress and it will likely change in the future, as we add more analytes/biomarkers for steroids and various steroid ratios that have been established as good biomarkers when measured in blood but for which no data yet exists in hair/nails.
Let me know if you have any questions/comments.

 

[scoobydoo]

Any interesting findings you’ve found on yourself or others that perhaps surprised you?

 

[haidut]

Any interesting findings you’ve found on yourself or others that perhaps surprised you?

Yep, we "caught" a number of people taking exogenous steroids. Some of those were the common ones such as pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, androsterone but we also detected people taking pharmacological doses of T, DHT, Proviron, etc. None of those people told us anything about themselves before the testing so this is a good confirmation that the method is accurate and works.
The interesting thing is that Ray seems to be right again. For the people taking pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA even physiological doses raises their levels of the respective hormone to above normal limit of normal range (the range is different for hair/nails than it is for blood) despite no/little changes in blood. And taking even 50mg progesterone results in massive increases of progesterone in a few people, so we know that progesterone (and pregnenolone/DHEA) dissolved in tocopherols or ethanol are bioavailable and absorb quite well. So, if people feel an effect from a lower dose I'd stick to that instead of jacking it up with the goal of changing blood levels (as many doctors advise). It is intracellular levels that matter and it looks like physiological doses are sufficient to correct a deficiency inside the cell, even when not taken every day. In one person taking just 2mg-3mg DHEA daily put the DHEA and DHEA-S levels above normal range, though we don't know what the levels were before supplementation. It could be that the levels were already optimal so even this low dose DHEA put the person over the limit.

 

[scoobydoo]

Yep, we "caught" a number of people taking exogenous steroids. Some of those were the common ones such as pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, androsterone but we also detected people taking pharmacological doses of T, DHT, Proviron, etc. None of those people told us anything about themselves before the testing so this is a good confirmation that the method is accurate and works.
The interesting thing is that Ray seems to be right again. For the people taking pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA even physiological doses raises their levels of the respective hormone to above normal limit of normal range (the range is different for hair/nails than it is for blood) despite no/little changes in blood. And taking even 50mg progesterone results in massive increases of progesterone in a few people, so we know that progesterone (and pregnenolone/DHEA) dissolved in tocopherols or ethanol are bioavailable and absorb quite well. So, if people feel an effect from a lower dose I'd stick to that instead of jacking it up with the goal of changing blood levels (as many doctors advise). It is intracellular levels that matter and it looks like physiological doses are sufficient to correct a deficiency inside the cell, even when not taken every day. In one person taking just 2mg-3mg DHEA daily put the DHEA and DHEA-S levels above normal range, though we don't know what the levels were before supplementation. It could be that the levels were already optimal so even this low dose DHEA put the person over the limit.

Interesting!! It’d be cool to see what someone’s tissues before and after using things like Pansterone that did manage to raise blood levels significantly
Wonder if tissue levels were through the roof! (My muscles would say they were!)

 

[Andrea Lucia]

I have been getting a lot of requests for posting a sample report on the forum, so here it is below. Please keep in mind that it a work in progress and it will likely change in the future, as we add more analytes/biomarkers for steroids and various steroid ratios that have been established as good biomarkers when measured in blood but for which no data yet exists in hair/nails.
Let me know if you have any questions/comments.

How do we go about getting it done for ourselves, please? And, do you have a way to check mineral levels as well?

 

[tastyfood]

I have been getting a lot of requests for posting a sample report on the forum, so here it is below. Please keep in mind that it a work in progress and it will likely change in the future, as we add more analytes/biomarkers for steroids and various steroid ratios that have been established as good biomarkers when measured in blood but for which no data yet exists in hair/nails.
Let me know if you have any questions/comments.

What makes 17-OH-P5 so hard to detect that it was only detected in 14% of the samples? Is it hard to detect even if Pregnenolone is high?

 

[area51puy]

The YouTube channel more plates more dates is always calling bodybuilders and juiced movie stars that claim to be natty that all sudden get swole in a few months.

Some have responded and say they will take a test , but if they are not currently on a cycle they won’t show steroids in their system.

So would this be a way to see if someone was on steroids say like 6 months ago?

And if so couldn’t this be a game changer in detecting steroid abuse in sports?

 

[haidut]

Interesting!! It’d be cool to see what someone’s tissues before and after using things like Pansterone that did manage to raise blood levels significantly
Wonder if tissue levels were through the roof! (My muscles would say they were!)

We already did analysis on a person like that and her P5 and DHEA levels went above limit with just 2-3 drops Pansterone daily (topically). I will see if she agrees to post her results here so people can see. And for people taking even say 10mg-15mg P4 daily, their hair/nail levels of P4 went through the roof.

 

[haidut]

How do we go about getting it done for ourselves, please? And, do you have a way to check mineral levels as well?

See the threads below for more info. We can do both steroids and minerals.

IdeaLabs Service - Steroid Analysis (hair and/or (toe)nail)

Note (5/27/2022): This launch is Part I of a two-part service - steroid analysis in hair or nails. While we have confirmed our ability to analyze steroids in both types of samples, nail steroid analysis is still in its scientific infancy and there are very few publications on the topic. As such...

raypeatforum.com

IdeaLabs Service - Mineral Analysis (hair and/or (toe)nail)

EDIT (05/20/2022): We have been receiving many questions about the difference in ranges for hair and nail results. As mentioned in the main post below, nails absorb more nutrients from the body and as such their ranges are often several-fold higher than the ranges for hair (for a specific...

raypeatforum.com

 

[haidut]

What makes 17-OH-P5 so hard to detect that it was only detected in 14% of the samples? Is it hard to detect even if Pregnenolone is high?

I think it is due to the fact that delta-5 pathway (P5->17-OH-P5->DHEA) is the preferred pathway for androgen/estrogen steroidogenesis in humans, while delta-4 (through progesterone) is the one for other mammals like rodents. So, 17-OH-P5 almost never gets to accumulate in large quantities as it is rapidly metabolized downstream, unlike 17-OH-P4, which accumulates. Btw, you don't want 17-OH-P5 to accumulate as it is a diagnostic biomarker of congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), and we managed to catch a few such cases already that were baffling doctors with normal presentation on blood tests. Even minor elevations can be problematic even in the absence of CAH, as insufficient downstream P5 metabolism may be due to things such as hypothyroidism, cofactor deficiencies, mitochondrial dysfunction, etc.

 

[haidut]

The YouTube channel more plates more dates is always calling bodybuilders and juiced movie stars that claim to be natty that all sudden get swole in a few months.

Some have responded and say they will take a test , but if they are not currently on a cycle they won’t show steroids in their system.

So would this be a way to see if someone was on steroids say like 6 months ago?

And if so couldn’t this be a game changer in detecting steroid abuse in sports?

Yep, this would be a great way to see if somebody was/is on steroids. With hair we can cover a period from as little as 2 weeks ago going back years depending on how far from the base/scalp the hair was cut. To see if somebody used steroids 6-7 months ago we basically need a hair sample 1cm long cut 6cm away from the base/scalp.

 

[tastyfood]

for people taking even say 10mg-15mg P4 daily, their hair/nail levels of P4 went through the roof.

I definitely fall in this category of results going through the roof.

I am posting and attaching my results here with the hopes it will help the community understand how the test works. What I don't understand is that the results don't match some of my symptoms, nor physical appearance, and they don't correlate with the things I'm experiencing.

I sent a lot of hair, strands that showed hair growth for 10 months. I'm male in his 30s.

- Pregnenolone was very high. I haven't supplemented pregnenolone on its own almost at all in the months before sending the hair sample.
- Progesterone went through the roof. I take progesterone almost every day, probably 40 to 50 mg, which come from Cortinon+ topically, and Progest-E orally.
- 17-OH-P4 was high, probably due to progesterone use? In this thread it was said that it accumulates.
- DHEA-S and DHEA went through the roof. For the last 6 months, I have only been taking up to 5 drops of Cortinon or Cortninon+, topically, on my wrists at night....no more.
- Androstenedione was 10 times above the upper limit of the range.
- Testosterone went through the roof. I never took T before sending the hair sample. The result was almost 30 times the upper limit of the range.
- Epitestosterone wasn't detected which I don't know what it means.
- DHT was more than 50 times the upper limit of the range. I never took DHT before sending the hair sample
- Estrone was almost double the upper limit of the range, possibly due to aromatization of something I've been taking?
- Cortisol was low, surprisingly. My 24 urine cortisol results always come up high, right at the upper limit of the range.
- Corticosterone was more than 3 times the upper limit of the range. I don't know if Corticosterone is a better marker for stress than cortisol.

It's worth noting I take a lot of T3 for my chronic hypothyroidism, about 40mcg daily, split throughout the day.

A few questions I'd throw to the community would be:

- Is there such thing as "too much" pregnenolone or progesterone? Does the cell have a limit of how much it can accumulate before starting to wreck havoc?
- Why would results showing very high androgens not correlate with the person's experience? Not "ripped", can't grow a full beard, male fertility issues, etc.
- Is excessive DHEA potential for excessive aromatization as well? Do these high results suggest a break is needed from supplementation?

The results were shocking to say the least.

 

[sunny]

@haidut , i have some extensive annual bloodwork, then a Dutch test, and toenail clippings that I need to have analyzed if you are interested. Since the clippings I have started talking a few drops of dhea, some rx testosterone cream, and I take Progest-e cyclical. I'm growing nails again.

 

[haidut]

I definitely fall in this category of results going through the roof.

I am posting and attaching my results here with the hopes it will help the community understand how the test works. What I don't understand is that the results don't match some of my symptoms, nor physical appearance, and they don't correlate with the things I'm experiencing.

I sent a lot of hair, strands that showed hair growth for 10 months. I'm male in his 30s.

- Pregnenolone was very high. I haven't supplemented pregnenolone on its own almost at all in the months before sending the hair sample.
- Progesterone went through the roof. I take progesterone almost every day, probably 40 to 50 mg, which come from Cortinon+ topically, and Progest-E orally.
- 17-OH-P4 was high, probably due to progesterone use? In this thread it was said that it accumulates.
- DHEA-S and DHEA went through the roof. For the last 6 months, I have only been taking up to 5 drops of Cortinon or Cortninon+, topically, on my wrists at night....no more.
- Androstenedione was 10 times above the upper limit of the range.
- Testosterone went through the roof. I never took T before sending the hair sample. The result was almost 30 times the upper limit of the range.
- Epitestosterone wasn't detected which I don't know what it means.
- DHT was more than 50 times the upper limit of the range. I never took DHT before sending the hair sample
- Estrone was almost double the upper limit of the range, possibly due to aromatization of something I've been taking?
- Cortisol was low, surprisingly. My 24 urine cortisol results always come up high, right at the upper limit of the range.
- Corticosterone was more than 3 times the upper limit of the range. I don't know if Corticosterone is a better marker for stress than cortisol.

It's worth noting I take a lot of T3 for my chronic hypothyroidism, about 40mcg daily, split throughout the day.

A few questions I'd throw to the community would be:

- Is there such thing as "too much" pregnenolone or progesterone? Does the cell have a limit of how much it can accumulate before starting to wreck havoc?
- Why would results showing very high androgens not correlate with the person's experience? Not "ripped", can't grow a full beard, male fertility issues, etc.
- Is excessive DHEA potential for excessive aromatization as well? Do these high results suggest a break is needed from supplementation?

The results were shocking to say the least.

The high 17-OH-P4, and androstenedione are likely a result of the high progesterone doses. I don't know what the reason for the high P5 is/was but maybe progesterone/DHEA stimulated more pregnenolone production? Maybe higher doses P5 supplementation in the past, which even if only done for say a few days/weeks if done at sufficiently high doses can skew the results for the entire year?
The high DHT may be explainable by the high DHEA/S, but I think you mentioned you also took an aromatase inhibitor at some point, right? If yes, that can raise DHT levels quite a bit. Same with the high T.
High estrone is usually a result of high DHEA supplementation, so it may help lower the dose. It looks like Peat is spot on when it comes to DHEA doses - i.e. while a "tiny" dose of 5mg daily does not raise blood levels much, it does raise tissues levels quite a bit. In corroboration, which I mentioned above, another client was taking only 2-3 drops Pansterone daily and also had her DHEA/S levels go above range.
Urine cortisol shows mostly how well your kidneys work and on its own is not very reliable. A (repeatedly) high cortisol in blood combined with high urine is more indicative of chronically high cortisol than either test on its own. Since cortisosterone was high, and it is a direct precursor to aldosterone, you may want to get a blood test for aldosterone. We tried measuring aldosterone in hair/nails and so far the results are negative, which matches with most other studies trying to measure it in hair/nails, so unless we come with a method to detect it in hair/nails, blood test remains the only option to follow up on the high corticosterone.
Just my 2c.

 

[haidut]

@haidut , i have some extensive annual bloodwork, then a Dutch test, and toenail clippings that I need to have analyzed if you are interested. Since the clippings I have started talking a few drops of dhea, some rx testosterone cream, and I take Progest-e cyclical. I'm growing nails again.

Thanks, but we can't really take samples from volunteers directly. Due to regulations it has to be done through a health practitioner's office.

 

[sunny]

@haidut , No problem, will be sending my clippings in for analysis. I have a question for African american hair for mineral and steroid. Can beard hair be used for both?if so, how to cut? The person can't grow nails the length needed because of job, and does not keep head hair.

 

[tastyfood]

Maybe higher doses 5 supplementation in the past, which even if only done for say a few days/weeks if done at sufficiently high doses can skew the results for the entire year?

In September and October of last year, I did about a month of high doses of Pregnenolone, more than 100mg daily. If the skew persists for a year, perhaps it is not a great idea, at least in my case, to send a long hair sample.

What you may find interesting is that my levels of Pregnenolone in blood were low, lower end of the range, in a blood test done 2 months ago.

you mentioned you also took an aromatase inhibitor at some point, right? If yes, that can raise DHT levels quite a bit. Same with the high T.

I took exemestane for 20 days, 8mg per day, 12 months ago. It that's what caused the high results, it'd be interesting to repeat the tests with a hair sample that shows growth for a month or two instead. Would that eliminate things that I'm not doing/taking anymore as factors?


Anyone have any comments about the cells having some kind of "saturation point" when it comes to androgens and precursors? Can one walk around with massive levels of progesterone in tissues without running into trouble?

 

[scoobydoo]

@haidut is there any concern for having such elevated levels of androgens in the tissue?
Also have you made any observations on male pattern hair loss? Any levels/ratios of steroids in those losing their hair? I ask cause for me, high DHT definitely is leading to hair loss at a much faster rate

 

[area51puy]

Yep, this would be a great way to see if somebody was/is on steroids. With hair we can cover a period from as little as 2 weeks ago going back years depending on how far from the base/scalp the hair was cut. To see if somebody used steroids 6-7 months ago we basically need a hair sample 1cm long cut 6cm away from the base/scalp.

I don’t know how much you know about this guy.

I wonder if he is familiar with peats work.

He has a cortisol supplement he sells which has emodin as one of the main ingredients and he is on trt but says he takes progesterone daily to counteract some of the side effects.
But who know?

 

[haidut]

@haidut , No problem, will be sending my clippings in for analysis. I have a question for African american hair for mineral and steroid. Can beard hair be used for both?if so, how to cut? The person can't grow nails the length needed because of job, and does not keep head hair.

Yes, beard hair works as well. Just shave with electric razor or cut with scissors. The harvesting method does not really matter as long as we get a clump of hair at least the size/area of your thumbnail.