Salt Encourages Tumor Growth ( Revici Experiments)

[Amazoniac]

burtlan, as far as I know, for legal reasons a researcher that's not a physician can't scrutinize a medical protocol in its entirety especially to suggest modifications. On top of that, his protocol is mostly based on experimentation; so, it's hard for a researcher to challenge a protocol that works as a whole and that wasn't based on studies; mostly because technically there's not much to confront. If things were to be tested in people with cancer, he would need a physician involved anyway. But on the other hand, as a researcher, he could explain the protocol scientifically, as a review, so that it's understandable how it works, and easier for other doctors to approach and perceive what could be improved. This is what you wished, right? If so, it would indeed be very positive.

#burtlanaseduceraloveraconqueroravisionaryandawinner

 

[David PS]

so is chloride bad?

I do not know if chloride is bad; but it might be. When I began using potassium bicarbonate, I also stopped applying magnesium chloride oil topically to my skin and I stopped drinking municipal water because of the chlorine. So maybe I was jumping to the same idea.

what forms of the other minerals should i be using???

I have been thinking about that as well. I do not have an answer. However, I am beginning to think that in the colloid that we call the blood, the sum of the anions and and the sum of the cations need to be properly balanced. Mother nature did this for us and the food industry has been somewhat reckless. This balancing (re-balancing to restore historial balance) is related to Zeta Potential and there are other threads for that. They are not very satisfying. I reading Application of basic concepts of Zeta Potential to Cardiovascular Disease - Chapter 22 to try to understand what to do next.

I am in my sixties and potassium bicarbonate has changed my blood pressure of from about 135/84 to 120/72. You may understand that I do not have alot of motivation to mess with my success.

Incidentally, there is a recent thread Sodium Thiosulfate: Removes Chlorine From Water Safely Magnesium thiosulfate is recited in claim 3 of Revici patent Patent US4499078 - Methods for counteracting the deleterious effects of sodium chloride. Thiosulfates are also recited in claim 1 of his Patent US4663165 - Method for counteracting the adverse effects of sodium chloride For me this reinforces that idea that it is the excess chloride that is the culprit.

 

[Amazoniac]

Composition of milk from this book: Principles Of Human Physiology (1920)
I don't know if reducing something to its ashes affects the form of any of the minerals.
The book was published in 1902, so many nutrients were not known back then.

 

[shepherdgirl]

back to SALT - quotes from Ray Peat's article (posted on raypeat.com) "Salt, energy, metabolic rate and longevity":

"Salt restriction, according to a review of about 100 studies (Alderman, 2004), lowers the blood pressure a few points. But that generally doesn’t relate to better health. In one study (3000 people, 4 years), there was a clear increase in mortality in the individuals who ate less salt. An extra few grams of salt per day was associated with a 36% reduction in “coronary events” (Alderman, et al., 1995). Another study (more than 11,000 people, 22 years) also showed an inverse relation between salt intake and mortality (Alderman, et al., 1997)."

"When small animals were given a milliliter of a saturated salt solution with the carcinogen, the number of tumors was increased with the salt. However, when the salt was given with mucin, it had no cancer promoting effect. Since the large amount of a saturated salt solution breaks down the stomach’s protective mucus coating, the stomach cells were not protected from the carcinogen. Rather than showing that salt causes stomach cancer, the experiments showed that a cup or more of saturated salt solution, or several ounces of pure salt, shouldn’t be ingested at the same time as a strong carcinogen."

 

[kaybb]

back to SALT - quotes from Ray Peat's article (posted on raypeat.com) "Salt, energy, metabolic rate and longevity":

"Salt restriction, according to a review of about 100 studies (Alderman, 2004), lowers the blood pressure a few points. But that generally doesn’t relate to better health. In one study (3000 people, 4 years), there was a clear increase in mortality in the individuals who ate less salt. An extra few grams of salt per day was associated with a 36% reduction in “coronary events” (Alderman, et al., 1995). Another study (more than 11,000 people, 22 years) also showed an inverse relation between salt intake and mortality (Alderman, et al., 1997)."

"When small animals were given a milliliter of a saturated salt solution with the carcinogen, the number of tumors was increased with the salt. However, when the salt was given with mucin, it had no cancer promoting effect. Since the large amount of a saturated salt solution breaks down the stomach’s protective mucus coating, the stomach cells were not protected from the carcinogen. Rather than showing that salt causes stomach cancer, the experiments showed that a cup or more of saturated salt solution, or several ounces of pure salt, shouldn’t be ingested at the same time as a strong carcinogen."

This is good info and a bit of relief since I have upped my salt to combat migraines and vertigo...which so far, seems to be helping

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Emanuel Revici claimed alimentary sodium chlorite (in excess) caused enhanced tumor growth and enhanced atherosclerosis. (without actually claiming it was the prime cause of them)

He patented different compounds to counteract these deleterious effects.

Here's the summary of his experience on salt causing enhanced atherosclerosis:

"New Zealand rabbits were given 2 grams of cholesterol a day, orally, together with their food. Sacrificed after one month, they showed atheromatous lesions of the aorta. The animals sacrificed after only two weeks of receiving the cholesterol showed only few minimal lesions or none at all. The addition of sodium chloride (3% to the drinking water) to the animals receiving 2 g of cholesterol daily was seen to induce manifest aorta lesions and this after only two weeks of treatment with cholesterol."

It's detailed in his
1985 Patent US 4499078 A: Methods for counteracting the deleterious effects of sodium chloride. (on atherosclerosis)



And here is his experience about enhanced tumor growth effect:

" The manifest action of sodium chloride upon the appearance and growth of cancers has been established through several experiments. Tumors were produced by a transplant into the hind leg of rats and mice. These tumors were found to grow larger and more rapidly when the animals also received sodium chloride in their drinking water. The size and growth of the resultant tumors caused the animals to die earlier than those who did not ingest the salt.

In groups of 100 exbreeder mice of the strain FC1, the number of spontaneous mammary tumors and the death from other conditions was recorded, during a one year observation. Spontaneous cancer was shown to be increased by the salt intake. In untreated animals, considered as controls, the average for 100 animals in one year observation was around 44% of spontaneous mammary cancers and of 15% death from other conditions than cancer. The addition of 2% salt in drinking water increased the spontaneous cancer to 65% for one year and a mortality of 20% from other conditions.

In animals injected intramuscularly with the carcinogens methylcholanthrene or benzyprene, the number of positive results was not only markedly increased but the tumors appeared earlier when the animals also ingested salt.

All these experiments are indicative of a marked enhancement upon the appearance, growth and malignant evolution of cancer by the action of ingested sodium chloride."

1987 Patent US 4663165 A: Method for counteracting the adverse effects of sodium chloride (on cancer)

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Dr. Revici also points out that sodium chloride is necessary to produce hydrochloric acid in the stomach and sodium bicarbonate in the duodenum. He cites chloride as the major player in acid-base values, not hydrogen. One man's excess might be another man's deficiency, according to time, circumstance, metabolism (anabolism/catabolism), cognitive trauma (Revici was the first to hire Lawrence LaShan when no one else would), etc. Just saying, not necessarily disagreeing.

 

[tara]

I know this is an old post, but I'm puzzled.

Emanuel Revici claimed alimentary sodium chlorite (in excess) caused enhanced tumor growth and enhanced atherosclerosis.

Was he talking about sodium chlorite - NaClO2, disinfectant etc?
Not sodium chloride - NaCl, common table salt, as the rest of the thread seems to discuss?

 

[burtlancast]

I know this is an old post, but I'm puzzled.

Was he talking about sodium chlorite - NaClO2, disinfectant etc?
Not sodium chloride - NaCl, common table salt, as the rest of the thread seems to discuss?

I'm usually unwilling to exchange with people contenting themselves with posting gratuitous statements over my comments yet unwilling - or unable most probably- to back them up.

 

[tara]

I'm usually unwilling to exchange with people ...

You don't have to reply to my question. I thought you might have an interest in clarifying, though, whether the whole thread had gone off on a confused tangent based on a single letter difference between the substances.
But I've now found documentation by Revici about dealing with excess sodium chloride.
(What he thought of MMS/sodium chlorite, if anything, I don't know.)

 

[LLight]

From High Salt Inhibits Tumor Growth by Enhancing Anti-tumor Immunity:

"Excess salt intake could affect the immune system by shifting the immune cell balance toward a pro-inflammatory state. Since this shift of the immune balance is thought to be beneficial in anti-cancer immunity, we tested the impact of high salt diets on tumor growth in mice. Here we show that high salt significantly inhibited tumor growth in two independent murine tumor transplantation models. Although high salt fed tumor-bearing mice showed alterations in T cell populations, the effect seemed to be largely independent of adaptive immune cells. In contrast, depletion of myeloid-derived suppressor cells (MDSCs) significantly reverted the inhibitory effect on tumor growth. In line with this, high salt conditions almost completely blocked murine MDSC function in vitro. Importantly, similar effects were observed in human MDSCs isolated from cancer patients. Thus, high salt conditions seem to inhibit tumor growth by enabling more pronounced anti-tumor immunity through the functional modulation of MDSCs. Our findings might have critical relevance for cancer immunotherapy."

 

[Kingpinguin]

If you crave salt then eat salt. The body and mind knows what it’s doing no need do ingest excess salt coz u think its healthy.

 

[LLight]

Dehydration could induce the production of LL-37, which in turn could activate a better immunity against cancer: Exposure to the antimicrobial peptide LL-37 produces dendritic cells optimized for immunotherapy (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2162402X.2019.1608106)

"CD103+ DCs (CD141+ in humans) have emerged as a fundamentally important subset that excels in cross-presentation, CD8+ T-cell activation and the induction of antitumor immunity."

"Here, we identify a novel role for the antimicrobial host defense peptide LL-37 in directing the expansion and differentiation of DCs in culture toward an “enhanced” CD141+/CD103+-like phenotype with dramatically improved antitumor activity."

Salt should also induce the production of LL-37.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have noticed that numerous times listening to a story by Dr. Peat he will indicate he had ingested a bit of extra salt. But always when I’ve heard him it’s “I ate a bit of salty cheese.” I’ve never heard him say “I consumed extra salt.”

I think the point is

1. Eat to salt appetite
2. Many low thyroid people need extra salt.

Thanks for the info @burtlancast which I somehow missed when you first posted this.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I myselph am an astroturfer that salt is the inductor of the adaptive inflammatory cascade,and eating salt to taste is a fallacy,an appeal to
the desperately needed,well intentioned instinct-spine.

i believe the light is on,but no body is at home though.salt is pain,but more of an metallic signal,like drinking blood,with other metal-taste-like tastes involved,potassium tastes very metal too;also the fact that human is special in regard to taste itself i remember,animal can smell,but its cute tastebuds arent that competent.

maybe we dont know what is good for us indeed?nature-cliche conceded,but our salt comes mainly from the authoritarian,towering saltdispenser,who more and more seems like a hooligan to me.

hypertension:radioactive labeled Na is enriched in hypertensives in their skin and muscles.IL17 is the party of broken family values.

bunch of excerpts for all you calmed down,cortisol depleted,IL17 circulating saltfreaks:



T lymphocytes (Tcells) play a crucial role in the development of hypertension
. Subsequent studies have shown a particularly important
role of a subset of T cells that produce the inflammatory
cytokine IL-17, termed Th17 cells.
in humanhypertensive patients, many markers of inflammation, includ-
ing circulating T cells and serum IL-17[Na+ induced by SGK1], are elevated , and immunosuppression has been shown to reduce blood
pressure .




Recent work by Titze and colleagues (18, 33) has dem-
onstrated that sodium retention is not always accompanied
by commensurate water retention. Using
23NaMRI in hu-
mans and chemical analysis in rodents, they have shown that
the skin and skeletal muscle of hypertensive patients and
animals contain levels of salt far greater than that of plasma.
Moreover, they found that in humans, blood pressure is
positively correlated with both skin and muscle sodium
content.




Farez et al.
showed that MS patients with medium or high salt
intakes had 2.75- to 3.95-fold increases in MS activity
than MS patients with low salt intake.14 Furthermore,
high salt intake increased the risk of a new
lesion in magnetic resonance imaging by 3.4-fold.




Moreover, an activation of IL-17 signalling is often observed in the pathogenesis of various autoimmune disorders, such as psoriasis.


IL-17 is commonly associated with allergic responses. IL-17 induces the production of many other cytokines (such as IL-6, G-CSF, GM-CSF, IL-1β, TGF-β, TNF-α), chemokines (including IL-8, GRO-α, and MCP-1), and prostaglandins (e.g., PGE2) from many cell types (fibroblasts, endothelial cells, epithelial cells, keratinocytes, and macrophages). IL-17 acts with IL-22 (produced mainly by T helper 22 cells in humans, but by T-helper 17 in mice) to induce expression of antimicrobial peptide by keratinocytes.


the IL-17 family has been linked to many immune/autoimmune related diseases including rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, lupus, allograft rejection, anti-tumour immunity and recently psoriasis[8] and multiple sclerosis.


thougths?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Ray Peat Quote:One of the most important effects of sodium is that it tends to spare magnesium, which is likely to be lost during stress and hypothyroidism. If we eat salty foods when we crave them, we are able to retain our magnesium more easily.

Lets eat more magnesium and potassium then.in inflammation there is sodium retention,which drives further continuance of it,feed-forward.

 

[_lppaiva]

Here is the video that inspired me to start using potassium bicarbonate.

Meaning perhaps it's the chloride parte that is responsible for the increased tumor growth and heart disease, not sodium?

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Here is the video that inspired me to start using potassium bicarbonate.

I bought a 2.5 kg bag and decided to experiment with half teaspoon daily doses (in lemon juice or in decaff). By the 3rd or 4th day I could not perceive my heartbeat. Figured this was the magical coveted blood pressure reduction and tried to get used to it. By the 5th or 6th week my muscles were spasming a few times per day. Had experienced this during my more athletic years, so I added in a few more shakes of sodium chloride along with 1/4th tsp of magnesium carbonate and tried to ignore it. By the 9th or 10th week the muscles under my jaw and above my neck would cramp up at the end of every cricket training. This was odd because the coach was the only one shouting. After one match it was so painful that I stopped at a Burger King along my commute home for a few packets of free salt, mixing a full one with a cup of water and drinking it together with a can of coke. The sodium and sugar may have helped or the problem may have subsided over the transpired period, but I ended my potassium bicarbonate experiment the next day.

Cronometer indicates that I achieve roughly 5000-6000mg potassium from food per day. Perhaps that was enough.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I bought a 2.5 kg bag and decided to experiment with half teaspoon daily doses (in lemon juice or in decaff). By the 3rd or 4th day I could not perceive my heartbeat. Figured this was the magical coveted blood pressure reduction and tried to get used to it. By the 5th or 6th week my muscles were spasming a few times per day. Had experienced this during my more athletic years, so I added in a few more shakes of sodium chloride along with 1/4th tsp of magnesium carbonate and tried to ignore it. By the 9th or 10th week the muscles under my jaw and above my neck would cramp up at the end of every cricket training. This was odd because the coach was the only one shouting. After one match it was so painful that I stopped at a Burger King along my commute home for a few packets of free salt, mixing a full one with a cup of water and drinking it together with a can of coke. The sodium and sugar may have helped or the problem may have subsided over the transpired period, but I ended my potassium bicarbonate experiment the next day.

Cronometer indicates that I achieve roughly 5000-6000mg potassium from food per day. Perhaps that was enough.

That is a nice amount.Potassium Bicarbonate also has impurities that arent shown on certificates,only lead amount,
but it also contains rather high unspecified zinc and iron impurities.i would advise against taking it.

 

[danishispsychic]

sorry no. Salt and sugar for the win.