SALT and Muscle Cramps

[atlee7757]

I have had muscle cramping issues my entire life.

Mostly lower leg, but have also gotten them in many other places.

Usually when trying to activate a muscle that is already under some form of stress.

I have tried every common remedy without success: Mg, Potassium, Phosphorus, Sodium Bicarbonate

Mg provides a very temporary relief but then a rebound occurs and it may become worse.

Potassium build-up in the stressed, worked cell would be my nomination for the culprit. Potassium supplements always make things worse.

Sugary drinks like coke and juice also make things noticeably worse. Forcing more glucose on a de-energized, stressed cell makes the problem worse.

The only thing that I have found to work is Salt: any form of Salt.

The relief from cramping can be felt within 10mins and the length of relief is related to the amount of salt used.

Personally, I have developed a routine of using 3 grams of Salt in my AM water (1 Liter) and 3 grams of Salt in my PM water (250 ML) along with 50-100mg of Mg. I have tried to go higher and I have tried to go lower, but for me, this seems like the right amount and I have been doing this for decades.

An added benefit of using 3gms of Salt in 250ML of water before bed, is that you won’t have to go to the bathroom during the night.

I have found that Dr. Peats advise to use pure Sodium Chloride in the form of Canning or Pickling Salt is important, as these high levels of Sea Salt can introduce toxic Heavy Metals, like Iron or Nickel, into the body.

Everybody always talks about Sodium at length, but my suspicion is that Chloride (and Chloride channels) is the key to this problem.

 

[mostlylurking]

I have had muscle cramping issues my entire life.

Mostly lower leg, but have also gotten them in many other places.

Usually when trying to activate a muscle that is already under some form of stress.

I have tried every common remedy without success: Mg, Potassium, Phosphorus, Sodium Bicarbonate

Mg provides a very temporary relief but then a rebound occurs and it may become worse.

Potassium build-up in the stressed, worked cell would be my nomination for the culprit. Potassium supplements always make things worse.

Sugary drinks like coke and juice also make things noticeably worse. Forcing more glucose on a de-energized, stressed cell makes the problem worse.

The only thing that I have found to work is Salt: any form of Salt.

The relief from cramping can be felt within 10mins and the length of relief is related to the amount of salt used.

Personally, I have developed a routine of using 3 grams of Salt in my AM water (1 Liter) and 3 grams of Salt in my PM water (250 ML) along with 50-100mg of Mg. I have tried to go higher and I have tried to go lower, but for me, this seems like the right amount and I have been doing this for decades.

An added benefit of using 3gms of Salt in 250ML of water before bed, is that you won’t have to go to the bathroom during the night.

I have found that Dr. Peats advise to use pure Sodium Chloride in the form of Canning or Pickling Salt is important, as these high levels of Sea Salt can introduce toxic Heavy Metals, like Iron or Nickel, into the body.

Everybody always talks about Sodium at length, but my suspicion is that Chloride (and Chloride channels) is the key to this problem.

You might find this article of interest:

Thiamine Deficiency Causes Intracellular Potassium Wasting - Hormones Matter

Whilst I always suspected a link between potassium and thiamine, I hadn't found research elucidating the mechanisms. Thiamine deficiency causes intracellular potassium wasting.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Here's an article about potential toxins in salt: Salts (table or cooking) with the fewest additives - Toxinless

 

[InChristAlone]

Amen, we need salt! But also do look into the thiamine angle with our high carb diets.

 

[hierundjetzt]

I have had muscle cramping issues my entire life.

Mostly lower leg, but have also gotten them in many other places.

Usually when trying to activate a muscle that is already under some form of stress.

I have tried every common remedy without success: Mg, Potassium, Phosphorus, Sodium Bicarbonate

Mg provides a very temporary relief but then a rebound occurs and it may become worse.

Potassium build-up in the stressed, worked cell would be my nomination for the culprit. Potassium supplements always make things worse.

Sugary drinks like coke and juice also make things noticeably worse. Forcing more glucose on a de-energized, stressed cell makes the problem worse.

The only thing that I have found to work is Salt: any form of Salt.

The relief from cramping can be felt within 10mins and the length of relief is related to the amount of salt used.

Personally, I have developed a routine of using 3 grams of Salt in my AM water (1 Liter) and 3 grams of Salt in my PM water (250 ML) along with 50-100mg of Mg. I have tried to go higher and I have tried to go lower, but for me, this seems like the right amount and I have been doing this for decades.

An added benefit of using 3gms of Salt in 250ML of water before bed, is that you won’t have to go to the bathroom during the night.

I have found that Dr. Peats advise to use pure Sodium Chloride in the form of Canning or Pickling Salt is important, as these high levels of Sea Salt can introduce toxic Heavy Metals, like Iron or Nickel, into the body.

Everybody always talks about Sodium at length, but my suspicion is that Chloride (and Chloride channels) is the key to this problem.

Hi, very interesting for me as I have suffered from cramps for ages. Just one question since you've been using salt for this problem for ages: does so much salt affect hair growth in your opinion? Some time back somebody had posted something about that too much sodium causes baldness if I remember correctly.

 

[redsun]

I have had muscle cramping issues my entire life.

Mostly lower leg, but have also gotten them in many other places.

Usually when trying to activate a muscle that is already under some form of stress.

I have tried every common remedy without success: Mg, Potassium, Phosphorus, Sodium Bicarbonate

Mg provides a very temporary relief but then a rebound occurs and it may become worse.

Potassium build-up in the stressed, worked cell would be my nomination for the culprit. Potassium supplements always make things worse.

Sugary drinks like coke and juice also make things noticeably worse. Forcing more glucose on a de-energized, stressed cell makes the problem worse.

The only thing that I have found to work is Salt: any form of Salt.

The relief from cramping can be felt within 10mins and the length of relief is related to the amount of salt used.

Personally, I have developed a routine of using 3 grams of Salt in my AM water (1 Liter) and 3 grams of Salt in my PM water (250 ML) along with 50-100mg of Mg. I have tried to go higher and I have tried to go lower, but for me, this seems like the right amount and I have been doing this for decades.

An added benefit of using 3gms of Salt in 250ML of water before bed, is that you won’t have to go to the bathroom during the night.

I have found that Dr. Peats advise to use pure Sodium Chloride in the form of Canning or Pickling Salt is important, as these high levels of Sea Salt can introduce toxic Heavy Metals, like Iron or Nickel, into the body.

Everybody always talks about Sodium at length, but my suspicion is that Chloride (and Chloride channels) is the key to this problem.

It should not be so easy for you to cramp... It could be due to lacking acetylcholine, so you may need more choline in your diet (fructose increases need for choline and B1 especially so maybe this is why sugary foods increase cramping). B1 and B vitamins in general are needed to make acetylcholine and retain electrolytes. Perhaps supplement those and increase choline intake. What is your current daily choline intake?

Sodium channels are important for the function of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors which contract your muscles this could be why salt is effective but imo you need to raise Ach, provide more choline most likely to fix this problem.

 

[atlee7757]

Hi, very interesting for me as I have suffered from cramps for ages. Just one question since you've been using salt for this problem for ages: does so much salt affect hair growth in your opinion? Some time back somebody had posted something about that too much sodium causes baldness if I remember correctly.

I have always had fine hair, and the volume has probably decreased a little over the years. I am now about 60 and think that I still have a healthy hairline. I do not think that consuming 6 additional grams of salt has had any negative effects.

I definitely experienced a couple of toxic interludes ( lameness, paralysis) from consuming that quantity of various sea salts. In particular bright white Italian sea salt (nickel?) and the reddish "Himalayan" variety (Iron?).

 

[atlee7757]

It should not be so easy for you to cramp... It could be due to lacking acetylcholine, so you may need more choline in your diet (fructose increases need for choline and B1 especially so maybe this is why sugary foods increase cramping). B1 and B vitamins in general are needed to make acetylcholine and retain electrolytes. Perhaps supplement those and increase choline intake. What is your current daily choline intake?

Sodium channels are important for the function of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors which contract your muscles this could be why salt is effective but imo you need to raise Ach, provide more choline most likely to fix this problem.

Over the decades of Salt supplementation, I have felt the pressure (from various people and Drs.) to cut down. So I have spent an awful lot of time trying to adjust this salt requirement through some other physiological mechanism.

I have spent years on years on the ACh and AChe neurological system. Like you, I believe that ACh is at the heart of many problems that we face.

The results that I experience don't match the research reports, however. This system is still in the "We don't fully understand..." area.

I have experimented with all forms of supplemental Choline and every one of them results in a chronic tightening of tendons and muscles that then leads to easy injury.

I have also consumed large amounts of Choline containing foods. The result is the same.

I do supplement with Betaine, though, and maybe this takes the load off my Choline demand.

For me "excess" Choline seems to impair the "action potential" by chronically stressing the nerve/ muscle axis.

It seems that almost all the plant based vitamins and herbs that we supplement, and many of the foods that we eat inhibit the breakdown of that excess Choline by AChe.

It also seems that any mental of physical stress turns me into a "salt waster".

Dr. Peat points out that hypothyroid people are typically "salt wasters".

After decades of going at this, I have come to a simple conclusion.

If my body wastes salt so easily, supplementing the right amount for me is going to be the answer.

I have tried to drop down to 4gms and I have tried to increase all the way to 10gms, but for me the right amount ( and it's been the same amount for decades) is about 6gms: 3gms in the AM and 3gms before bed.

Salt is cheap ( especially Dr. Peats recommended Canning Salt) and it works 100% for me.

 

[redsun]

Over the decades of Salt supplementation, I have felt the pressure (from various people and Drs.) to cut down. So I have spent an awful lot of time trying to adjust this salt requirement through some other physiological mechanism.

I have spent years on years on the ACh and AChe neurological system. Like you, I believe that ACh is at the heart of many problems that we face.

The results that I experience don't match the research reports, however. This system is still in the "We don't fully understand..." area.

I have experimented with all forms of supplemental Choline and every one of them results in a chronic tightening of tendons and muscles that then leads to easy injury.

I have also consumed large amounts of Choline containing foods. The result is the same.

I do supplement with Betaine, though, and maybe this takes the load off my Choline demand.

For me "excess" Choline seems to impair the "action potential" by chronically stressing the nerve/ muscle axis.

It seems that almost all the plant based vitamins and herbs that we supplement, and many of the foods that we eat inhibit the breakdown of that excess Choline by AChe.

It also seems that any mental of physical stress turns me into a "salt waster".

Dr. Peat points out that hypothyroid people are typically "salt wasters".

After decades of going at this, I have come to a simple conclusion.

If my body wastes salt so easily, supplementing the right amount for me is going to be the answer.

I have tried to drop down to 4gms and I have tried to increase all the way to 10gms, but for me the right amount ( and it's been the same amount for decades) is about 6gms: 3gms in the AM and 3gms before bed.

Salt is cheap ( especially Dr. Peats recommended Canning Salt) and it works 100% for me.

I see. So it seems salt/water balance is likely your problem. Do you also urinate frequently and in large volumes?

I dont know if you ever figured out the total amount of sodium you get daily from the salt you supplement + from your food. You may just not get much at all from foods you eat (which is common if we eat healthier, less processed foods) and thus you cant meet your daily sodium needs. Overall most people will need 3-6g of sodium total daily. More if you are active, sweat a lot. It also depends on how well you can retain sodium. As you age, you tend to have less adrenal activity overall, reducing ability to retain sodium.

 

[atlee7757]

Increased activity or exercise results in a few days of water retention (1/2 a litre per day lost in urine) followed by a few days of excess release (as much as 3 litres per day). A cycle that then starts over.

I think you are right about the low Sodium content of foods eaten by people on this forum. I would estimate that my total salt intake per day is probably around 10gms and has been pretty stable at that level for decades now.

Dr. Peat recommends salting to taste because of this.

But, oddly enough, I have never found that adding salt to a meal had the desired effect. Probably all the other food ingredients mitigate the more obvious salt effects.

As a result, to keep the cramping at zero, I have really boiled it down to just the Salt and Water, and usually some Magnesium, and sporadically , some other minerals.

 

[Ben.]

An added benefit of using 3gms of Salt in 250ML of water before bed, is that you won’t have to go to the bathroom during the night.

I find this very funny because i have increased my salt intake the past weeks to 6-8grams in addition to w/e food i eat and it led to extreme fast transit times and i also have to go pee atleast 2-3 times more often. So basicaly the opposite.

 

[atlee7757]

I never have to pee during the night unless I drink milk before bed or supplement with calcium before bed.

 

[One-trick Tony]

Only thing I've found that works within seconds (!) when limping up in the night with a severe cramp in the lower legs is water - 1 to 2 glasses and it subsides almost immediately. Worked for everyone else I've told too. Haven't had them for a good while now but usually was triggered by eating too much sugar or just simply being dehydrated.
I'm not saying it's the cause but it's my number 1 tool in the first aid kit...!

 

[Dawid]

I find this very funny because i have increased my salt intake the past weeks to 6-8grams in addition to w/e food i eat and it led to extreme fast transit times and i also have to go pee atleast 2-3 times more often. So basicaly the opposite.

I had the same problem until I switched to himalyan salt