RP Email Advice Comment: Lidocaine For Bowel Complaints

[goodandevil]

See warnings: LIDOCAINE HYDROCHLORIDE ORAL TOPICAL SOLUTION, USP 2% (VISCOUS)

Usual adult dose is one tablespoon. don't eat until the lidocaine has worn off.

I:" I have burning eyes, burning throat and sinus cavity, etc. Definitely related to gut."

Ray:"Years ago I swallowed a sip of 2% lidocaine gel, and within a few minutes felt something changing in my intestine, and from then on, without any more lidocaine, some of my bowel symptoms were gone."

I: "Excellent! I just happen to have some on hand. Epigenetic?"

Ray: "I think that must be it, for the improvement to be so stable."

Br J Anaesth. 2014 Jul;113 Suppl 1:i32-8.
Lidocaine and ropivacaine, but not bupivacaine, demethylate deoxyribonucleic acid
in breast cancer cells in vitro.
Lirk P(1), Hollmann MW(2), Fleischer M(3), Weber NC(2), Fiegl H(4).
(1)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical Center, University of
Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The Netherlands [email protected]
[email protected]. (2)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical
Center, University of Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The
Netherlands. (3)Department of Gynaecology and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical
University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020, Austria. (4)Department of Gynaecology
and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020,
Austria [email protected] [email protected].
BACKGROUND: Lidocaine demethylates deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) in breast cancer
cells. This modification of epigenetic information may be of therapeutic
relevance in the perioperative period, because a decrease in methylation can
reactivate tumour suppressor genes and inhibit tumour growth. The objectives of
this study were to determine the effect of two amide local anaesthetics,
ropivacaine and bupivacaine, on methylation in two breast cancer cell lines and
to detect whether the combination of lidocaine with the chemotherapy agent
5-aza-2'-deoxycytidine (DAC) would result in additive demethylating effects.
METHODS: Breast cancer cell lines BT-20 [oestrogen receptor (ER)-negative] and
MCF-7 (ER-positive) were incubated with lidocaine, bupivacaine, and ropivacaine
to assess demethylating properties. Then, we tested varying concentrations of
lidocaine and DAC to assess whether their demethylating effects were additive.
Cell numbers and global methylation status were analysed.
RESULTS: Lidocaine decreased methylation in BT-20 and MCF-7 cells, ropivacaine
decreased methylation in BT-20 cells, and bupivacaine had no demethylating
effect. When combined, lidocaine and DAC had additive demethylating effects.
CONCLUSIONS: At clinically relevant doses, lidocaine and ropivacaine exert
demethylating effects on specific breast cancer cell lines, but bupivacaine does
not. The demethylating effects of lidocaine and DAC are indeed additive.
© The Author [2014]. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the
British Journal of Anaesthesia. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please
email: [email protected].

 

[haidut]

See warnings: LIDOCAINE HYDROCHLORIDE ORAL TOPICAL SOLUTION, USP 2% (VISCOUS)

Usual adult dose is one tablespoon. don't eat until the lidocaine has worn off.

I:" I have burning eyes, burning throat and sinus cavity, etc. Definitely related to gut."

Ray:"Years ago I swallowed a sip of 2% lidocaine gel, and within a few minutes felt something changing in my intestine, and from then on, without any more lidocaine, some of my bowel symptoms were gone."

I: "Excellent! I just happen to have some on hand. Epigenetic?"

Ray: "I think that must be it, for the improvement to be so stable."

Br J Anaesth. 2014 Jul;113 Suppl 1:i32-8.
Lidocaine and ropivacaine, but not bupivacaine, demethylate deoxyribonucleic acid
in breast cancer cells in vitro.
Lirk P(1), Hollmann MW(2), Fleischer M(3), Weber NC(2), Fiegl H(4).
(1)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical Center, University of
Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The Netherlands [email protected]
[email protected]. (2)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical
Center, University of Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The
Netherlands. (3)Department of Gynaecology and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical
University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020, Austria. (4)Department of Gynaecology
and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020,
Austria [email protected] [email protected].
BACKGROUND: Lidocaine demethylates deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) in breast cancer
cells. This modification of epigenetic information may be of therapeutic
relevance in the perioperative period, because a decrease in methylation can
reactivate tumour suppressor genes and inhibit tumour growth. The objectives of
this study were to determine the effect of two amide local anaesthetics,
ropivacaine and bupivacaine, on methylation in two breast cancer cell lines and
to detect whether the combination of lidocaine with the chemotherapy agent
5-aza-2'-deoxycytidine (DAC) would result in additive demethylating effects.
METHODS: Breast cancer cell lines BT-20 [oestrogen receptor (ER)-negative] and
MCF-7 (ER-positive) were incubated with lidocaine, bupivacaine, and ropivacaine
to assess demethylating properties. Then, we tested varying concentrations of
lidocaine and DAC to assess whether their demethylating effects were additive.
Cell numbers and global methylation status were analysed.
RESULTS: Lidocaine decreased methylation in BT-20 and MCF-7 cells, ropivacaine
decreased methylation in BT-20 cells, and bupivacaine had no demethylating
effect. When combined, lidocaine and DAC had additive demethylating effects.
CONCLUSIONS: At clinically relevant doses, lidocaine and ropivacaine exert
demethylating effects on specific breast cancer cell lines, but bupivacaine does
not. The demethylating effects of lidocaine and DAC are indeed additive.
© The Author [2014]. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the
British Journal of Anaesthesia. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please
email: [email protected].




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Ray Peat Forums>Metabolic Health>Ray Peat Media>Ray on lidocaine for bowel complaints>

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Ray on lidocaine for bowel complaints

ChasingGoodandEvil
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#1
10-25-2016, 03:07 AM (This post was last modified: 10-25-2016, 03:23 AM by ChasingGoodandEvil. Edit Reason: Format/spelling )
I've had a very stubborn bowel condition, don't know if he'd recommend this for everyone. I smoked weed many years and felt that it had changed my gut. At first i thought it was SIBO but I didn't consider the epigenetic componment.

Me:" I have burning eyes, burning throat and sinus cavity, etc. Definitely related to gut."

Ray:"Years ago I swallowed a sip of 2% lidocaine gel, and within a few minutes felt something changing in my intestine, and from then on, without any more lidocaine, some of my bowel symptoms were gone."

Me: "Excellent! I just happen to have some on hand. Epigenetic?"

Ray: "I think that must be it, for the improvement to be so stable."


Br J Anaesth. 2014 Jul;113 Suppl 1:i32-8.
Lidocaine and ropivacaine, but not bupivacaine, demethylate deoxyribonucleic acid
in breast cancer cells in vitro.
Lirk P(1), Hollmann MW(2), Fleischer M(3), Weber NC(2), Fiegl H(4).
(1)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical Center, University of
Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The Netherlands [email protected]
[email protected]. (2)Department of Anaesthesiology, Academic Medical
Center, University of Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 9, Amsterdam 1105AZ, The
Netherlands. (3)Department of Gynaecology and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical
University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020, Austria. (4)Department of Gynaecology
and Obstetrics, Innsbruck Medical University, Anichstr. 35, Innsbruck 6020,
Austria [email protected] [email protected].
BACKGROUND: Lidocaine demethylates deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) in breast cancer
cells. This modification of epigenetic information may be of therapeutic
relevance in the perioperative period, because a decrease in methylation can
reactivate tumour suppressor genes and inhibit tumour growth. The objectives of
this study were to determine the effect of two amide local anaesthetics,
ropivacaine and bupivacaine, on methylation in two breast cancer cell lines and
to detect whether the combination of lidocaine with the chemotherapy agent
5-aza-2'-deoxycytidine (DAC) would result in additive demethylating effects.
METHODS: Breast cancer cell lines BT-20 [oestrogen receptor (ER)-negative] and
MCF-7 (ER-positive) were incubated with lidocaine, bupivacaine, and ropivacaine
to assess demethylating properties. Then, we tested varying concentrations of
lidocaine and DAC to assess whether their demethylating effects were additive.
Cell numbers and global methylation status were analysed.
RESULTS: Lidocaine decreased methylation in BT-20 and MCF-7 cells, ropivacaine
decreased methylation in BT-20 cells, and bupivacaine had no demethylating
effect. When combined, lidocaine and DAC had additive demethylating effects.
CONCLUSIONS: At clinically relevant doses, lidocaine and ropivacaine exert
demethylating effects on specific breast cancer cell lines, but bupivacaine does
not. The demethylating effects of lidocaine and DAC are indeed additive.
© The Author [2014]. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the
British Journal of Anaesthesia. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please
email: [email protected].

For the people looking for OTC alternative - in the US pharmacies like CVS and RiteAid sell mouth numbing gels for tooth pain. They contain either lidocaine or benzocaine. Rubbing it on the gums does achieve systemic absorption, albeit low compared to ingesting a teaspoon of it directly. Going to the dentist also tends to give you anesthesia administered through injection that one definitely elevates systemic circulation. So, just going for your 6-mont checkup (as most people seem to do) will give you a decent dose of one or more of the *caines.

 

[Blossom]

I used to work with a guy who would drink 4-5ml vials of liquid lidocaine made for injection to relieve his gerd.

 

[mangoes]

Have you tried the lidocaine yet? Any improvement?

 

[goodandevil]

For the people looking for OTC alternative - in the US pharmacies like CVS and RiteAid sell mouth numbing gels for tooth pain. They contain either lidocaine or benzocaine. Rubbing it on the gums does achieve systemic absorption, albeit low compared to ingesting a teaspoon of it directly. Going to the dentist also tends to give you anesthesia administered through injection that one definitely elevates systemic circulation. So, just going for your 6-mont checkup (as most people seem to do) will give you a decent dose of one or more of the *caines.

Thanks Haidut. I told my doctor I had cold sores from my "IBS". I guess people with chron's can frequently struggle with apthous ulcers so I went that route. Worked like a charm except now he thinks I have herpes, or "the herps" as I call it. The OTC preparations probably taste better.

 

[goodandevil]

Have you tried the lidocaine yet? Any improvement?

I did try a teaspoon, and I did notice some intestinal changes. i had a severe atrophy of lower abdominal and pelvic muscle which i've recently addressed with the miracle of the Ab Roller. I think the muscle atrophy has been my main problem but the lidocaine may've helped and i've got another tube to try again soon. I'm also trying it on some strange scar/plaques i've had that never seem to dissapear.

 

[mangoes]

I did try a teaspoon, and I did notice some intestinal changes. i had a severe atrophy of lower abdominal and pelvic muscle which i've recently addressed with the miracle of the Ab Roller. I think the muscle atrophy has been my main problem but the lidocaine may've helped and i've got another tube to try again soon. I'm also trying it on some strange scar/plaques i've had that never seem to dissapear.

Glad you're seeing some improvement! You said in another thread you're in a sjogren like state? Like dry mouth etc? Did the lidocaine help that at all?

 

[goodandevil]

Glad you're seeing some improvement! You said in another thread you're in a sjogren like state? Like dry mouth etc? Did the lidocaine help that at all?

I wish i could say for certain. Either it or new muscle hypertrophy is helping. for example i had quite visible and alarming spiderwebs of veins become visible in tbe palm of my hand, always, bjt especially surrounding temporally bowel movements. that has finally started to clear. i do feel as though the lidocaine helped, the degree to which it helped is confouded. it's definitely a strange sensation but i do feel kt's helped and will soon use it again. i believe it's an acetylation or deacetylation agent, thus it's epigenetic effects, @haidut probably knows more than I about the exact epigenetic mechanism. sorry i can't provide a more definitive answer but since ige used it thkngs have improved.

 

[paymanz]

@haidut Apparently local anaesthetics usually are a mixture of lidocaine and epinephrine.

If thats true, do you think that is ok?

It for sure can reduce lidocaine's systemic absorption.

 

[haidut]

@haidut Apparently local anaesthetics usually are a mixture of lidocaine and epinephrine.

If thats true, do you think that is ok?

It for sure can reduce lidocaine's systemic absorption.

The epinephrine is there to prolong its half-life. I don't think it has an effect on absorption. While having extra epinephrine is not ideal I doubt that in the amount you gets it and only 2-3 times a year it negates the benefits of lidocaine. The OTC mouth ointments sold in pharmacies don't have epinephrine AFAIK.

 

[Ideonaut]

I: "Excellent! I just happen to have some on hand. Epigenetic?"

Ray: "I think that must be it, for the improvement to be so stable."

I don't understand this. How could the bowel problem be epigenetic? Why would an anaesthetic fix it? Could anyone out there explain?

 

[paymanz]

i see.

i just read that they add epinephrine as a vasoconstrictor, so lidocaine stays in topical area and not spreading into blood stream.it says it prolongs lidocaine presence in applied area.

and lidocaine itself is a vasodilator.

@haidut you mentioned 2-3 time a year, more than that can have bad effects or its just enough?

 

[haidut]

i see.

i just read that they add epinephrine as a vasoconstrictor, so lidocaine stays in topical area and not spreading into blood stream.it says it prolongs lidocaine presence in applied area.

and lidocaine itself is a vasodilator.

@haidut you mentioned 2-3 time a year, more than that can have bad effects or its just enough?

I just mentioned it as an alternative to OTC mouth gels. Given that Peat experience such relief with just 1 try and reported on others experiencing similar relief I thought it would be relevant. Don't know how much would be enough or too much. If it works similarly to LDN, Ray says using for 2-3 days is enough (if it is going to have any effect at all) so the same is probably true of lidocaine. It is a restructuring chemical, and unlike vitamins that are needed in constant supply, this one probably is meant for sporadic use.

 

[Tarmander]

I have been looking for Lidocaine to give it a try. Have not been able to find a source. Anyone know of one?

I found this:
ALOE GEL W/ LIDOCAINE

But it is a very small amount of lidocaine. It seems most lidocaines that have any strength do not look that edible.

 

[goodandevil]

I have been looking for Lidocaine to give it a try. Have not been able to find a source. Anyone know of one?

I found this:
ALOE GEL W/ LIDOCAINE

But it is a very small amount of lidocaine. It seems most lidocaines that have any strength do not look that edible.

I think mexmeds4u has it, or that farmaciadelnino place. i told my doctor i wanted it for cold sores.

 

[Tarmander]

I think mexmeds4u has it, or that farmaciadelnino place. i told my doctor i wanted it for cold sores.

Do you know of a non prescription form of it? It seems you can get it over the counter...

 

[goodandevil]

Do you know of a non prescription form of it? It seems you can get it over the counter...

Thet might even hold it beind the counter like sulfur and give it out, not sure. sorry i dont have any other guesses. it's been pretty easy in my experience to get from a croaker

 

[Tarmander]

Thet might even hold it beind the counter like sulfur and give it out, not sure. sorry i dont have any other guesses. it's been pretty easy in my experience to get from a croaker

Thanks, just hate going to them.

 

[goodandevil]

Thanks, just hate going to them.

I know me too. i just treat them poorly =)

 

[goodandevil]

I just sent a request in on their big brother brother webpage