RP Email Advice Comment: Viruses

[EndAllDisease]

My Question:
Hey Ray!
I read a book called Fear of The Invisible by Jeanine Roberts which is an incredible detailed account of the history of Virology, and presents the hypothesis that Virus' are completely misunderstood. The author reports the political history of Virology which consisted of a bunch of childlike scientists trying desperately to make a contribution to science to satisfy their egos.

If she's correct, and it seems very likely based on what I've read, viruses are solvents, produced BY the cells (when they have been exposed to toxic chemicals) as a kind of self-cleaning/detoxification mechanism.

If the invisible virus is the cause of massive deaths in the case of, for example, polio, then the chemical-producing companies instantly become free of all liability.

“When I dug back further, to the origins of virology and the great hunt for the poliovirus, I found the story was scandalously much the same. Powerful evidence was presented to Congress linking the summer polio epidemics to summer-used heavy metal pesticides. These scientists suggested remedies, reported curing polio – and were ignored. Instead parents were told to be scared of a yet undiscovered virus.” – Janine Roberts

Additionally, Pasteur appears to be a complete fraud (Pasteur vs. Bechamp), so the invention of viruses could in theory also have been to get people to accept toxic vaccine injections.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!
Best regards,
-Mark

Ray's Reply:

I think the best approach to understanding viruses is to investigate recent research on microvesicles, “retrotransposons,” and incorporation of foreign (food) DNA into our cells, and to look at Bonghan Kim’s ideas. C.C. Lindegren’s book, Cold War in Biology, discusses some of the older ideas about horizontal transmission of DNA between very different types of organism. Bacteria can “engineer” their own genes (James A. Shapiro), and useful packets of new genetic material can be shared by unrelated types of bacteria. She’s right about viruses being produced as a result of stresses, including toxic chemicals.

 

[haidut]

My Question:
Hey Ray!
I read a book called Fear of The Invisible by Jeanine Roberts which is an incredible detailed account of the history of Virology, and presents the hypothesis that Virus' are completely misunderstood. The author reports the political history of Virology which consisted of a bunch of childlike scientists trying desperately to make a contribution to science to satisfy their egos.

If she's correct, and it seems very likely based on what I've read, viruses are solvents, produced BY the cells (when they have been exposed to toxic chemicals) as a kind of self-cleaning/detoxification mechanism.

If the invisible virus is the cause of massive deaths in the case of, for example, polio, then the chemical-producing companies instantly become free of all liability.

“When I dug back further, to the origins of virology and the great hunt for the poliovirus, I found the story was scandalously much the same. Powerful evidence was presented to Congress linking the summer polio epidemics to summer-used heavy metal pesticides. These scientists suggested remedies, reported curing polio – and were ignored. Instead parents were told to be scared of a yet undiscovered virus.” – Janine Roberts

Additionally, Pasteur appears to be a complete fraud (Pasteur vs. Bechamp), so the invention of viruses could in theory also have been to get people to accept toxic vaccine injections.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!
Best regards,
-Mark

Ray's Reply:

Well, if viruses are internal (endo) toxins produced by the cells when under stress then viruses should have a lot in common with endotoxin produced by bacteria in the gut. Hhhm, how logical and yet imperceptible to the common white-coat.
Virulence factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interferon Appearance Stimulated by Endotoxin, Bacteria, or Viruses in Mice Pre-Treated with Escherichia coli Endotoxin or Infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ray Peat has already stated this when talking about hepatitis C or HIV, I don't remember if on KMUD radio or on his website.

 

[haidut]

Ray Peat has already stated this when talking about hepatitis C or HIV, I don't remember if on KMUD radio or on his website.

I think he said that estrogen, endotoxin, radiation, stress, adrenaline, FFA, exotoxins, etc all activates retroviruses like HIV. But I am wondering if endotoxin can actually behave like a virus itself - i.e. change DNA and such. I am about to post a study on the long term epigenetic effects of endotoxin and they look remarkably similar to viruses.

 

[thegiantess]

Okay. So then I'm confused about what is happening when folks claim there is a "stomach virus" going on... Or the flu is passed? So some viruses are contagions, but others are created by the cell?

 

[ecstatichamster]

What about phages?

 

[Tarmander]

This is an interesting discussion. I think a case could be made for "invisible" viruses like HIV, but what about visible ones like HPV that causes warts. Or herpes. I know NO exacerbates these issues, but can we really say it is entirely caused by them? I dunno...

 

[haidut]

Okay. So then I'm confused about what is happening when folks claim there is a "stomach virus" going on... Or the flu is passed? So some viruses are contagions, but others are created by the cell?

Very few of these stomach bug events have actually been tied to a virus. Whenever someone has the "flu" or a stomach bug it is automatically assumed that it is an exogenous virus causing this. But in reality, both types of conditions can be easily caused by endotoxin. Both the fever from the regular "flu" and nausea/vomiting from the stomach "bug" are well known symptoms of NO/serotonin elevations caused by endotoxin. I am not saying the viral infections do not exist. But I have seen first hand in actual clinical setting (ER) how most people with these symptoms automatically get labelled "viral" and given Tamiflu without any supporting evidence for presence of a virus. Only if internal bleeding is suspected then doctors do some blood tests looking for specific viruses since bleeding is one of the symptoms of viral infection. It's not just Ebola that causes organ bleeding, all viruses can cause it.
Next time you or someone you know gets the "flu", have them try a hefty dose of charcoal. If the symptoms subside within a few hours then it is not a virus.

 

[GAF]

So, when the Polio Vaccine was contaminated with SV40 "virus", what was it actually contaminated with? A piece of endotoxin? And what is actually in Vaccines that is supposed to be the inactive virus. Was small-pox a "virus"? Or is "endotoxin" just another name for "virus"? What is it that a picture of a "virus" is actually showing?

 

[haidut]

So, when the Polio Vaccine was contaminated with SV40 "virus", what was it actually contaminated with? A piece of endotoxin? And what is actually in Vaccines that is supposed to be the inactive virus. Was small-pox a "virus"? Or is "endotoxin" just another name for "virus"? What is it that a picture of a "virus" is actually showing?

That is a great question. All I know is that both endotoxin and viruses seem to exert their effects through the so-called TLR4 receptor, and as far as that "receptor" is concerned, endotoxin, viruses, PUFA, opioids, adrenaline, etc are all the same things.
TLR4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think this deserves a separate post, which I will try to do this weekend.
It reminds me of Ray's article of the estrogen "receptor" which can be activated in the absense of estrogen by adrenaline, PUFA, cortisol, retroviruses, NO, etc. It is starting to look like we need to classify substances based on their effects more than based on their physical characteristic. I do think that viruses exist but the question is what is the relevance of talking about viruses and endotoxin as different entities if they produce largely the same effects on organisms?

 

[Suikerbuik]

I am not sure what you're trying to say, prove or disprove here, Flatearth.

She’s right about viruses being produced as a result of stresses, including toxic chemicals

This does not deny the existence of viruses as possible exogenous infective agents. The fact that viral sequences generally share a lot similarity should tell enough.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think if an organism under a certain stress makes the switch and starts making some virus, another organism under a similar stress would make a switch because of being exposed to that virus from outside, so things would go in reverse. Like when you cool water below 0°C but it needs a little bump to start freezing.

 

[haidut]

I think if an organism under a certain stress makes the switch and starts making some virus, another organism under a similar stress would make a switch because of being exposed to that virus from outside, so things would go in reverse. Like when you cool water below 0°C but it needs a little bump to start freezing.

So, maybe viruses are the cross-organismic messaging mechanism that an organism is under stress and this can cause other organisms to be stressed as well by "reading" that virus and thus knowing what the stress was all about? Almost like the stressed cell emitting signals telling other cells about its misfortune and then the other cells around it try to help and if there is quorum that the stress is over then the stress is over.

 

[Such_Saturation]

So, maybe viruses are the cross-organismic messaging mechanism that an organism is under stress and this can cause other organisms to be stressed as well by "reading" that virus and thus knowing what the stress was all about? Almost like the stressed cell emitting signals telling other cells about its misfortune and then the other cells around it try to help and if there is quorum that the stress is over then the stress is over.

Well yea, plants do that too. But it could also be just like some kind of airborne tumor basically. Like a prion disease or like a software bug that endangers many machines from opportunistic entities.

 

[EndAllDisease]

The implications of this are staggering, and it helps me realize why Ray hasn't said much in the way of viruses (at least in my research of his work thus far).
If viruses are produced by cells inside the body, then viruses are not transmittable and the fear we're programmed to have about ebola, h1n1, swine flu, etc are all a complete hoax.

Mold Toxins Tied to AIDS Epidemic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/health/mold-toxins-tied-to-aids-epidemic.html?_r=0

IMMUNOLOGICAL STRESSOR AGENTS ARE THE REAL CAUSE OF AIDS, Roberto Giraldo, M.D.
Immunological Stressor Agents are the Real Cause of AIDS

 

[Such_Saturation]

You don't think they multiply?

 

[tara]

I'm having real trouble imagining how norovirus and chicken pox could be something other than infectious.

Ray's Reply:
... She’s right about viruses being produced as a result of stresses, including toxic chemicals.

Virus replicate by getting cells to (re)produce them.
People are usually more susceptible to viral infection when under stress - ie their cells are likely to (re)produce more virus.
I don't see how this would be inconsistent with either the standard view or the phrase from Peat above?

 

[thegiantess]

The implications of this are staggering, and it helps me realize why Ray hasn't said much in the way of viruses (at least in my research of his work thus far).
If viruses are produced by cells inside the body, then viruses are not transmittable and the fear we're programmed to have about ebola, h1n1, swine flu, etc are all a complete hoax.


Mold Toxins Tied to AIDS Epidemic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/health/mold-toxins-tied-to-aids-epidemic.html?_r=0

IMMUNOLOGICAL STRESSOR AGENTS ARE THE REAL CAUSE OF AIDS, Roberto Giraldo, M.D.
Immunological Stressor Agents are the Real Cause of AIDS

Nope. You should be very fearful of Ebola. Unless you like blood to come out of your bum, be fearful!

Perhaps going to the extreme of saying viruses are a hoax is a bit much. I think you can't throw the baby out with the bath water here. It seems more plausible that viruses can go both ways--from the outside and/or inside.

 

[tara]

If viruses are produced by cells inside the body, then viruses are not transmittable and the fear we're programmed to have about ebola, h1n1, swine flu, etc are all a complete hoax.

This does not follow. Standard theory is that viruses are produced by cells inside the body. This does not stop them being infections and transmissible.

Parents didn't invent chicken pox parties for nothing.

Maybe there's some hypothetical possibility of some people being able to be so unstressed that they can resist all viral infections, but I'm not planning on being a guinea pig for those experiments.

 

[haidut]

Well yea, plants do that too. But it could also be just like some kind of airborne tumor basically. Like a prion disease or like a software bug that endangers many machines from opportunistic entities.

In other words, being around sick/stressed people is technically contagious. Even if their disease is not caused by virus/bacteria.