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RP Email Advice Comment: Coffee

superhuman

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Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee
 
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Green

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In an interview he said drip coffee.
 
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Mittir

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superhuman said:
Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee
He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,
he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.
 
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Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee
He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.
M, for safety purposes, let's advise everyone of the cautionary part of his email, which is that he dilutes his strong coffee extract greatly with milk, so that the final result is stronger than standard restaurant coffee.

Since the extract he uses is quite strong, that would mean that after mixing it with milk to make a cafe con leche as he does (in a proportion that seems to range from 2:1 to 4:1), the taste of the coffee would be very weak (as he has said elsewhere).

He also writes that coffee is much more than caffeine, and that taking very strong coffee with a meal can slow the absorption of caffeine, which otherwise would be (he says) "too much caffeine at once".

Nowhere does he advise drinking strong black coffee on an empty stomach.

Here's M's exchange with Peat:

Mittir said:
I had this impression from your interviews that you drink several cups of strong coffee .
But someone at forum is claiming that you drink weak coffee in the form of
" cafe con leche". Can you please clarify if you drink weak coffee or strong coffee.
What is your daily caffeine intake? I have heard you recommending 3-5 cups of coffee.
What do you think is the safe dose of caffeine intake daily for average
person?( with sugar and milk) Do you think it is safe to use caffeine tablet
of 600 mg or more to treat fatty liver?

Ray Peat said:
That would be too much caffeine at once, unless it's with a big meal to slow its absorption. Coffee is much more than caffeine. A pound of coffee might last me three days, I'm not sure, but I use as much for a cup as Folger's says to use for a quart. When the concentrated extract is mixed with milk, the mixture is stronger than standard restaurant coffee.
 
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superhuman

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Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee
He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,
he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.

Thanx a ton Mittir. Man that is strong and alot of coffee/caffeine. Wich i love to hear since ive experienced with it myself.
RP: told me in a email that coffee/caffeine can make up for lack of thyroid hormone and hypothyroid could benefit from a dozen a day
How much are you doing now?
Do you know if RP uses a machine or do it manually since if you do it manually i guess you can just run the coffee through the filter one more time to make it stronger
 
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Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
superhuman said:
Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee
He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,
he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.

Thanx a ton Mittir. Man that is strong and alot of coffee/caffeine. Wich i love to hear since ive experienced with it myself.
RP: told me in a email that coffee/caffeine can make up for lack of thyroid hormone and hypothyroid could benefit from a dozen a day
How much are you doing now?
Do you know if RP uses a machine or do it manually since if you do it manually i guess you can just run the coffee through the filter one more time to make it stronger

I do not know if he uses machine or manually. I drink iced milk coffee, this is the major
source of calories for me. I drink 4-6 cups a day. I add 4-5 grams of instant coffee,
1-2 tablespoon of sugar ( i am using sugar syrup now, it tastes better), some ice to
1 cup of whole milk. Besides magnesium, coffee, especially instant coffee is a good source
of potassium. I get about 3000 mg of potassium, 250 mg of magnesium, 140-225 grams
of sugar (sucrose plus lactose) from 6 cups of iced coffee. I believe extra potassium
and magnesium in this concoction help to manage the added sugar. It calms me down
and i even drink a cup before i go to bed with no sleep problem. Coffee increases
metabolism, so i have to make sure i am getting all the required nutrients
from liver and other foods.
 
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superhuman

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Thats awesome, did not now instant coffee had that much potassium.
Gonna need to smack down some of that myself.
But hasnt it been debated about instant coffee and bad fats/oils and stuff in it?
 
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Mittir

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superhuman said:
Thats awesome, did not now instant coffee had that much potassium.
Gonna need to smack down some of that myself.
But hasnt it been debated about instant coffee and bad fats/oils and stuff in it?

Potassium content depends on variety of reasons, but generally it is between
1 to 2 percent of dry bean weight. There should be good amount potassium in
brewed coffee too. I might switch to RP style brewing in future.
RP has mentioned on an average instant coffee is as good as brewed coffee.
I do not remember any debate on oil content of instant coffee.
I did a "coffee" search in Email Advice section and got several RP response
on coffee. He mentioned he used to drink on average 12 cups of coffee.
Here is the quote

Ray Peat said:
ttramone
Me: Just wondering why some of us get severe withdrawals (headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, low mood) if we don't use coffee daily. We don't get side effects from drinking coffee, just if we don't drink it for 24 hours (sometimes less). These 'withdrawals' can last as long as 5-6 days. Why would this happen? We are thinking there could be issues with our liver? Adrenals?

RP: I suspect that it happens mostly with hypothyroidism, because in the 1970s I averaged dozens of cups a day, and thought about it as soon as I woke up, then suddenly after I took some thyroid, I didn't feel any need for it.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=1035&start=110#p25975

I was listening to PUJA hormone (34 min )where he mentioned
Ray Peat said:
It does not hurt to drink 50 if that is what balances your metabolism ,But i think everyone should try to get from 3 to 5 cups a day ,there has been studies in which people who drank more than 5 cups had lower incidence of various kind of cancer and lower incidence of dementia."
Note to newcomers :i am not suggesting you drink 50 cups of a day.
 
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Mittir said:
Note to newcomers :i am not suggesting you drink 50 cups of a day.

Someone is still going to try that. :cool:
 
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Mittir

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I am thinking if i heard it right. Is he saying 50 or 15?
I hope someone can check it to be sure.
I think 50 cups will be physically impossible, at least for me.
My interpretation is that he is using 50 cup as a figure of speech,
just to mean, whatever it takes to keep metabolism up.
 
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tara

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My current coffee routine most days is:
I make very strong coffee with about 10 grams instant decaf coffee powder, 50 grams sugar, 1/4-1/2 teaspoon salt (none of this measured accurately, so it varies a bit) and enough hot water to dissolve (~100ml). Stir till it does dissolve. Pour a bit of the milk out of the top of a 2l bottle skim milk. Pour coffee mix into milk bottle.
These proportions are guided by what tastes good to me, and to not require me to eat more food at the same time to balance the coffee effect. It is much weaker than a bought latte. I seem to get withdrawal from full caffeine coffee, worsening migraines, starting in my sleep when I can't interrupt the withdrawal with more coffee. Otherwise I would probably be drinking full caffeine coffee.
I take the coffee milk bottle with me wherever I go in a cooler bag. At home and work I heat a cup at a time in the microwave whenever I feel like it. If I have not got access to microwave, I just drink it cold. Most days I drink 1.5-2l of this.
 
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Mittir

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I used to get moderate caffeine withdrawal if i missed coffee for a day.
In recent days, i experimented i can go without coffee for days
without any kind of withdrawal or cravings. The experience is similar
to the one RP experienced after adding thyroid. I do not have strong cravings
for coffee anymore but i feel better is i drink it.
 
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Mittir said:
I used to get moderate caffeine withdrawal if i missed coffee for a day.
In recent days, i experimented i can go without coffee for days
without any kind of withdrawal or cravings. The experience is similar
to the one RP experienced after adding thyroid. I do not have strong cravings
for coffee anymore but i feel better is i drink it.

If you try coffee with no sugar, you will notice that there is a definite "high". I think that is what gets most people.
 
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Mittir

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I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.
 
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Joined
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Messages
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Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.
 
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4peatssake

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60
Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.
Hi Mittir,

What's your near perfect diet now, if you don't mind sharing? And what supplements are you currently taking?
I drink ice coffee like you as well and it makes up the bulk of my calories. Very interesting that apple juice knocked down the cravings for your previous "comfort foods" and seems to have balanced your blood sugar.
Thanks!
 
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Blossom

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Such_Saturation said:
Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.
The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso! :lol:
 
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4peatssake

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Messages
2,055
Age
60
Blossom said:
Such_Saturation said:
Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.

The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso! :lol:
lol Blossom. But I have to agree with Such that there's a little something else going on. ;)
I never got nearly as wasted doing espresso shots in France as I do if I drink Starbucks. :shock:

Oh and I don't recommend doing espresso shots without lots of milk n sugar. :p
 
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Messages
7,367
Blossom said:
Such_Saturation said:
Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.
The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso! :lol:

I never drink less than three espressos at a time but it's nothing like that stuff!
 
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superhuman

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Mittir said:
I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

That is awesome.
I also notice that if im hungry or low blood sugar, starving whatever that all the cravings come along etc.
If i just load up on sugar nothing is tempting anymore.
Its like i could not single out one item of food that is more tempting to me then the other if ive had my sugars.

Im gonna seriously add much more coffee to my day. Do the RP protocol of 150-180g filter coffee a day. Thats like 3x amount they recommend when you make a Liter/quart of coffee. But yeah its easier with the instant coffee since you know exactly how much you are getting. I see 40g is around 1200mg caffeine wich should be great for me :)
Say you take 40g instant coffee, boild some water so it mixes fill the rest with milk so it becomes 1 liter volume. That would be something i guess? and have it in a thermos?

Gonna start changing from cottage cheese to milk so that i can just put alot of milk in the coffee.
How much in terms of caffeine and mineral content does one have to use from the instant coffee to get the same amount as 150-180g filter/brew coffee?
 
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