Pointless
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2016
- Messages
- 945
I have got joint aches from cortisol lowering substances such as 7-keto Dhea.
Which is, again, another steroid with very little research done on it.
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I have got joint aches from cortisol lowering substances such as 7-keto Dhea.
Which is, again, another steroid with very little research done on it.
nds, but obviously without any additives. Other than that, as long as the supplement is liquid it will probably have to be DMSO because I found even in pure ethanol the thyroid powder forms large clumps and does not dissolve much. Have you tried TyroMix (the synthetic product) on your rats?
No I haven't tried TyroMix on my rat yet but I would definitely be interested in trying out a pill form of NDT for my rat. I find that the pill form is easier to use for this particular rat. Several times I have overdosed my rat on Tyromax because of the way i was rushing to dose her and squeezed the bottle just slightly too hard. Thank you for your reply. Your patience and work and is very much appreciated.
Progesterone gave me similar joint problems when I was taking larger amounts of 3 to 9 drops. Crackling popping joints all over. I think it has to do with low estrogen as this is a common side effect with Aromatase inhibitors.
No, it was the progest-e. Maybe the cause could have been low cortisol caused by high progesterone (although for me DHEA never caused this and its the main hormone antogonistic to cortisol).Were you taking it in DMSO?
No, it was the progest-e. Maybe the cause could have been low cortisol caused by high progesterone (although for me DHEA never caused this and its the main hormone antogonistic to cortisol).
I have heard that with Aromatase inhibitors joints issues are common. So how can it not be caused by lowering estrogen?
There's no good reason to use DMSO besides the cost to my knowledge, but the cost and potentiation of steroids is an important factor.@DaveFoster
Glad to provide some interesting and hopefully useful input. haidut's helped me and has always answered my questions. Ray has expressed doubts on DMSO and stopped using it hinself. Perhaps it's useful acutely. i would like to see @haidut continue to succeed. i like his b vitamins very much. Ray has been very clear that there's no such thing as excessively low estrogen, and he has been very clear in his opposition to chronic or long-term use of DMSO. I feel that more attention should be paid to side effects of @haidut's supplements but that he should continue releasing new things. For example a sublingual alcohol solution may be a possibility. Personally, I'm done with DMSO.
Androsterone has quite a bit of research around it, but like pregnenolone it was in fashion in the first half of the 20th century so those studies are hard to dig up in full text. The drug Atromid, whose main active ingredient was androsterone, was approved by the FDA and was on the market for more than a decade until the statins came into vogue. I agree about 7-keto-DHEA - not much research around it and it is a somewhat unnatural metabolite of DHEA. But androsterone is produced in quite high amounts by healthy young people and it is one of the hormones to go down most with aging, second only to DHEA decline.
A compound called laxogenin seems to be an antagonist of 7-keto-DHEA, and has a supposed anabolic effect while preventing lactate from rising. Supposedly, Russians have been aware of it for some time. I see it's available in Australia, which makes me assume it's probably ineffective.
Here's the link: Laxogenin and 5-hydroxy-laxogenin: natural anabolics that can enhance real anabolic steroids
It has some structural similarity to exemestane, so it could inhibit aromatase. It is also a 5-AR derived steroidal chemical, so it could functional similarly to the 5-AR steroids. What I don't like about it is the too many hydroxyl groups. If you can find me a 3-keto-laxogenin I would be willing to try it :)
What is it about the extra hydroxl groups that is undesirable? Is 3-keto-laxogenin something that exists?
I don't know if 3-keto laxogenin exists but for examples on OH groups and their health effects look at the structure of progesterone/testosterone/pregnenolone (good) and estradiol/cortisol/aldosterone (bad). Also, look at the unsaturation of the A and B rings of the steroid core across the steroids. There two things are key for the effects of the steroid on health/metabolism.
Here's an idea ...
What about adding small amounts of progesterone daily into the mix?
Whether the joint pain is occurring because cortisol is tanked or because estrogen is tanked, it still stands that progesterone is protective for the joints.
Ray Peat himself has a patent on a mixture of DHEA and progesterone used for the sole purpose of relieving chronic joint pain.
And since it seems that the anti-androgenic effects from progesterone don't occur signicantly at low doses, even males might be able to try this.
EDIT: Of course, the context in which I'm making these suggestions is for research purposes only, as the topic relates to androsterone and 11-keto DHT.
I think it would be a good idea to add some progesterone when using androsterone. Progesterone has some very potent anti-cortisol effects, while androsterone's effect is mostly on estrogen. Also, like you said, proegsterone seems to help joint pain.