Ritanserin - Serotonin Antagonist For R&D Use Only

allblues

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Yes, but high cortisol and high serotonin is also implicated in anorexia. I don't know how to square that circle.

Edit: I'm guessing in the [high cortisol & obesity]-scenario a pathological diet with plentiful seed oils etc would keep stress hormones like cortisol high despite a normal/large intake of food. Continuous PUFA exposure hindering glucose metabolism, classic diabetus.
Whereas the [high cortisol & anorexia]-situation would be indicative of a low intake of food,
and made worse by a low intake of very bad food, starvationesque.
 
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Agent207

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Blocking serotonin lowers cortisol, which would then leave insulin unopposed -> fat gain?

Why do you want to oppose insulin other than keeping controlled blood sugar (HbA1c)? Cortisol rises blood sugar; short-term no problem, but when mid/long-term it leads to higher average blood sugar levels > higher insulin > weight gain > insulin resistance.
 
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allblues

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Oh, I don't think I would want to oppose insulin, in general. I'm just brainstorming about what could be the cause of weight gain in
those who use serotonin antagonists, since I haven't really heard any satisfactory answers as to why that happens.
I personally gained weight on 4mg+ of cyproheptadine, without eating more than normal, and with hunger still being low/nonexistant.
 
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But appetite does not necessarily equal fat deposition, so that must be something else, perhaps something to do with another channel apart from serotonin. I don't naturally have a very good tendency to experience uncoupling, which would just burn calories for heat, and didn't experience any uncoupling while using ritanserin. In fact, I think I experienced a drop in body temperature.

I had that experience and feel that way too. In general I have a lot of metabolic inertia. Didn't experience any increase, only a decrease.
 

natedawggh

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I thought high cortisol led to obesity?
Oh, I don't think I would want to oppose insulin, in general. I'm just brainstorming about what could be the cause of weight gain in
those who use serotonin antagonists, since I haven't really heard any satisfactory answers as to why that happens.
I personally gained weight on 4mg+ of cyproheptadine, without eating more than normal, and with hunger still being low/nonexistant.
I think you just hit on it, allblues. I didn't know that cortisol opposes insulin. So the hypothesis is that lowering serotonin lowers cortisol (the effects I felt from ritanserin would definitely support this) but because I'm most definitely somewhat diabetic, the increased insulin led to weight gain instead of metabolizing glucose.

I just found this in Dr. Peat's article Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context,

Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat.

I'm assuming my weight gain while on ritanserin was from too much consumption of starch (I eat a lot of potato), for my personal metabolic capacity, and not enough fructose. I'm going to try ritanserin again and this time restrict my carbohydrates to fruit and sugar.
 
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natedawggh

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I think you just hit on it, allblues. I didn't know that cortisol opposes insulin. So the hypothesis is that lowering serotonin lowers cortisol (the effects I felt from ritanserin would definitely support this) but because I'm most definitely somewhat diabetic, the increased insulin led to weight gain instead of metabolizing glucose.

I just found this in Dr. Peat's article Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context,

Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat.

I'm assuming my weight gain while on ritanserin was from too much consumption of starch (I eat a lot of potato), for my personal metabolic capacity, and not enough fructose. I'm going to try ritanserin again and this time restrict my carbohydrates to fruit and sugar.

@haidut @allblues @Peata An update on my previous post—My Rat has been on Ritanserin since Saturday, but this time carbohydrates have been limited to fruit/cane sugar/milk and weight loss is ensuing instead of weight gain. As allblues pointed out, Ritanserin by lowering cortisol seems to make insulin sensitive subjects more likely to gain weight. Since glucose triggers insulin and fructose inhibits it, the solution is to avoid starch. It also seems that the tiredness experienced in the first days of Ritanserin use is also related to sugar oxidation issues, and clears up with the consumption of a generous amount of sugar and thyroid. I also think the increased hunger some people experience is because of this same starch/insulin reaction. On a fructose limited diet I am not experiencing hunger cravings the way I did the first time. Other sugar oxidation aids such as niacinamide and aspirin have proven helpful.

I'm realizing how starch is affecting a worse physiological reaction with or without Ritanserin than I was assuming, and I can see now exactly what Dr. Peat refers to when he talks about the down-side of starch.

Incidentally, I think this same phenomenon occurs with the use of Protest-E, and I've advised my mom and sister, who take progesterone and experience stubborn weight issues, to limit starch and include lots of fructose.

I DO NOT want to become fruitarian, however, so I'm hoping I can eventually restore my glucose oxidation, or at least find more interesting things to eat.
 
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haidut

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@haidut @allblues @Peata I wanted to update about this. My Rat has been on Ritanserin since Saturday, but this time carbohydrates have been limited to fruit/cane sugar/milk and weight loss is ensuing instead of weight gain. As allblues pointed out, Ritanserin by lowering cortisol seems to make insulin sensitive subjects more likely to gain weight. Since glucose triggers insulin and fructose inhibits it, the solution is to avoid starch. It also seems that the tiredness experienced in the first days of Ritanserin use is also related to sugar oxidation issues, and clears up with the consumption of a generous amount of sugar and thyroid.

I'm thinking that since this happens, starch is probably effecting a worse physiological reaction with or without Ritanserin than I was assuming, and I can see now exactly what Dr. Peat refers to when he talks about the down-side of starch.

Thanks for this update! I suspected that it had to do with the food. I also find starch appealing as a taste but with bad effects on weight and digestion.
 

allblues

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That's great Nate! Please keep us updated on how it goes. I'll remember to try minimizing starch if i go on high cyproheptadine doses again.
 
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Pointless

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Ritanserin is definitely a worthwhile product. Just a few drops is enough to stop any diarrhea in rats. Sometimes it takes a few hours, but it is very reliable. There is no other medication or supplement that I know of that is so effective for that.

My rat has a serotonin-driven syndrome: inflammatory bowel disease. It's well-controlled with Cyproheptadine, but I keep my dose as low as possible to avoid dry mouth, dental degradation, and weight gain. Almost all dopaminergic drugs and supplements cause abdominal pain and diarrhea, including very mild serotonergics like methylene blue, vitex, along with some other non-Peaty supplements I've experimented with back in the day like citicholine. Ritanserin can eliminate those side effects rather quickly, and nothing else works quite like it.

The only problem is that I get splitting headaches upon physical exertion. I'm all over the map with dosage, but I would venture to say that even 1 drop a day in the morning, with intense aerobic (properly speaking) exercise in the afternoon, would still result in a headache. I used to get headaches like this back in college when lifting weights, but not recently, so I don't know if it's connected somehow in my subject.
 

satsumass

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Intrigued by ritanserin, especially its effect on sleep improvement. Have taken a number of 5ht2a antagonists but never a pure one (mostly the atypical antipsychotics for bipolar 2 depression / mood stabilization). Concerned, however, that it's anti-serotonin effect might exacerbate OCD or OCD-type issues. Has anyone noticed this...more rumination, more compulsivity, less mindful awareness being able to stop repetitive pathological thoughts and behaviors?
 
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Ritanserin is definitely a worthwhile product. Just a few drops is enough to stop any diarrhea in rats. Sometimes it takes a few hours, but it is very reliable. There is no other medication or supplement that I know of that is so effective for that.

My rat has a serotonin-driven syndrome: inflammatory bowel disease. It's well-controlled with Cyproheptadine, but I keep my dose as low as possible to avoid dry mouth, dental degradation, and weight gain. Almost all dopaminergic drugs and supplements cause abdominal pain and diarrhea, including very mild serotonergics like methylene blue, vitex, along with some other non-Peaty supplements I've experimented with back in the day like citicholine. Ritanserin can eliminate those side effects rather quickly, and nothing else works quite like it.

The only problem is that I get splitting headaches upon physical exertion. I'm all over the map with dosage, but I would venture to say that even 1 drop a day in the morning, with intense aerobic (properly speaking) exercise in the afternoon, would still result in a headache. I used to get headaches like this back in college when lifting weights, but not recently, so I don't know if it's connected somehow in my subject.

Are they in any way neck related headaches?
 

Peata

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@haidut @allblues @Peata An update on my previous post—My Rat has been on Ritanserin since Saturday, but this time carbohydrates have been limited to fruit/cane sugar/milk and weight loss is ensuing instead of weight gain. As allblues pointed out, Ritanserin by lowering cortisol seems to make insulin sensitive subjects more likely to gain weight. Since glucose triggers insulin and fructose inhibits it, the solution is to avoid starch. It also seems that the tiredness experienced in the first days of Ritanserin use is also related to sugar oxidation issues, and clears up with the consumption of a generous amount of sugar and thyroid. I also think the increased hunger some people experience is because of this same starch/insulin reaction. On a fructose limited diet I am not experiencing hunger cravings the way I did the first time. Other sugar oxidation aids such as niacinamide and aspirin have proven helpful.

I'm realizing how starch is affecting a worse physiological reaction with or without Ritanserin than I was assuming, and I can see now exactly what Dr. Peat refers to when he talks about the down-side of starch.

Incidentally, I think this same phenomenon occurs with the use of Protest-E, and I've advised my mom and sister, who take progesterone and experience stubborn weight issues, to limit starch and include lots of fructose.

I DO NOT want to become fruitarian, however, so I'm hoping I can eventually restore my glucose oxidation, or at least find more interesting things to eat.
Thanks for the info; glad your weight is coming off again.

I assume you are eating low fat as well as no starch? How much fat do you get? I saw one of your blog articles about our need for fat, so wondered if you can eat sugar and fat without gaining or if you have to cut back.
 
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natedawggh

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Thanks for the info; glad your weight is coming off again.

I assume you are eating low fat as well as no starch? How much fat do you get? I saw one of your blog articles about our need for fat, so wondered if you can eat sugar and fat without gaining or if you have to cut back.
No I'm eating fairly high amounts of fat. And increased my salt intake a lot. Not losing fast but definitely steady.
 

X3CyO

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Would this stop an acid trip then hypothetically?
 
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haidut

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Would this stop an acid trip then hypothetically?

Not hypothetically, all general serotonin antagonists and all full 5-HT2 antagonists will stop it. There are studies with cyproheptadine and LSD trips but the mechanism is generic enough to apply to other serotonin antagonists as well.
 

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