Risks Of High Vit B2 Supplement For Migraine?

[tara]

I'm starting some high-dose vitamin B2 because there are studies showing a significant proportion of migraineurs getting significant improvements from high dose B2 (eg 400mg/day), with some improvement after one month and more after 3 months. I have not read any such recommendation from Peat. I know he is concerned that it is often allergenic. I'm up to day 4 at ~100mgx2/day of riboflavin powder from purebulk. I can't think of a better way to get a high dose. I haven't noticed anything particular yet, but not sure if I'm well attuned to mildly allergenic effects.

Is anyone aware of any risks from high doses of supplemental B2? Any other comment on this tactic?

Searching Peat's writing via toxinless, I found these (as well as references to it's allergenicity):

Riboflavin, vitamin B2, is an essential component of the mitochondrial respiratory enzymes, and it is very easily destroyed by light (blue light and especially ultraviolet). When it is excited by high energy light, it can spread the damage to other components of the mitochondria, including the cytochromes and the polyunsaturated fatty acids. The other B vitamins are affected when riboflavin's actions are disturbed.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ro ... ging.shtml

Does this mean too much time under flouorescent lighting in the past could increase requirements considerably? Or over-exposure to sun?

However, there is a famous experiment in which rats were made deficient in riboflavin, and when their corneal tissue showed evidence of the vitamin deficiency, they were given a standard diet. However, the standard diet no longer met the needs of their eye tissue, and during the remainder of the observation period, only a dose of riboflavin several times higher than normal would prevent the signs of deficiency. A developmental change had taken place in the cornea, making its vitamin B2 requirement abnormally high.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ge ... tion.shtml

This one seems consistent with the possibility that once things are out of balance, the needs of particular tissues could be much higher than normal.

 

[aguilaroja]

I'm starting some high-dose vitamin B2 because there are studies showing a significant proportion of migraineurs getting significant improvements from high dose B2 (eg 400mg/day), with some improvement after one month and more after 3 months....
Is anyone aware of any risks from high doses of supplemental B2? Any other comment on this tactic? ..

The two passages you cite are the discussions by Dr. Peat that I recall about riboflavin. There may be mention in "Nutrition for Women" but I don't have a copy at hand.

Some years back I was experimenting with considerable doses of riboflavin. It turns the urine dark yellow. Beyond that, my experience was fairly neutral (no extra humor intended). I recall the possibly there was digestive queasiness, but that may have been due to other factors. I used capsules at the time. It was harder to find "reputable" powders in those days, or get questions answered about assays and manufacturing. (It is still not necessarily easy.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24564599
Riboflavin supplementation improves energy metabolism in mice exposed to acute hypoxia.
Wang YP1, Wei JY, Yang JJ, Gao WN, Wu JQ, Guo CJ. Physiol Res. 2014 Feb 24.
"...riboflavin requirement was increased under acute hypoxic condition and riboflavin supplementation was effective in improving energy metabolism in hypoxic mice."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24650639
Riboflavin (vitamin B2) and oxidative stress: a review.
Ashoori M, Saedisomeolia A. Br J Nutr. 2014 Mar 20:1-7.

"The results of the reviewed studies confirm the antioxidant nature of riboflavin and indicate that this vitamin can protect the body against oxidative stress, especially lipid peroxidation and reperfusion oxidative injury. The mechanisms by which riboflavin protects the body against oxidative stress may be attributed to the glutathione redox cycle and also to other possible mechanisms such as the conversion of reduced riboflavin to the oxidised form."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24874442
Carbon tetrachloride-induced hepatotoxicity in rat is reversed by treatment with riboflavin.
Al-Harbi NO1, Imam F2, Nadeem A1, Al-Harbi MM1, Iqbal M3, Ahmad SF1. Int Immunopharmacol. 2014 May 27;21(2):383-388.

"Our study suggests that riboflavin may be used as a hepato-protective agent against toxic effects caused by CCl4 and other chemical agents in the liver."

 

[tara]

Thanks aguilaroja,
Those studies all seem favourable to trying it.

 

[DaveFoster]

The most dramatic drop in FFA concentration in hypoxic mice occurred at the human equivalent dosage of about 3.9 mg/kg with significant reduction at 1.95 mg/kg. For a 100 kg male, this equates to a dosage of between 195 to 390 mg, which falls well within the range prescribed for the treatment of migraines.

 

[tara]

I went up to 400mg for at least 3 mths, noticed no difference, dropped back to 200, and recently to 100.
Possibly it would be interesting to leave it out altogether for a week to see if I either miss it or get any improvements in eczema I've had for more than a year. But reluctant, because I'm pretty sure I get a useful boost from my twice daily B-vit potion.

 

[tara]

post 113989 The most dramatic drop in FFA concentration in hypoxic mice occurred at the human equivalent dosage of about 3.9 mg/kg with significant reduction at 1.95 mg/kg. For a 100 kg male, this equates to a dosage of between 195 to 390 mg, which falls well within the range prescribed for the treatment of migraines.

Interesting, thx.

 

[Wilfrid]

Have you already try a combination of caffeine (200mg) with some ubiquinone (50mg)?
If the riboflavin thing is not making any noticeable improvements.
Beware that very high dose B2 can have both a potent sodium and cholesterol lowering effect ( at least in rodents.).
Not something you may want both short and long term. :2cents

 

[yomama]

I suffer of chronic migraine mainly related to atmospheric pressure changes, Aspirin always worked well for me even in small amounts but now I cant take it anymore I switched to B2. I take a B complex (also containing B6) plus magnesium etc. and days of weather change I add extra 200~400mg of B2 which helps me a bit, not effective as Aspirin but it does something, its main effect is at neuronal/mitochondria level for what I know.

 

[tara]

post 114006 Have you already try a combination of caffeine (200mg) with some ubiquinone (50mg)?
If the riboflavin thing is not making any noticeable improvements.

Thanks Wilfrid. Do you mean as a daily preventive or to try to stop a migraine that is already underway?
I have CoQ10/ubiquinone here, but have not tried it systematically yet.
My experience with caffeine is that even smaller amounts can sometimes (but not always) interrupt a migraine in the early stages, but tehn it keeps trying to come back, and the more coffee I've drunk, the worse it is. Initially the coffee tastes and feels good, but after a while it starts to taste and feel bad, and I don't force it.

post 114006 Beware that very high dose B2 can have both a potent sodium and cholesterol lowering effect ( at least in rodents.).
Not something you may want both short and long term. :2cents

Since I've not had any darmatically good effects from high doses, I think I should probably at least drop down to normal small doses, and maybe take a break from it. I think sometimes low salt and distorted water handling may be part of my migraine pattern. It's a while since I last had cholesterol tested, but it wasn't low then.
Could it be that cholesterol is lowered because the riboflavin helps in the conversion to downstream steroid hormones?

 

[tara]

post 114014 I suffer of chronic migraine mainly related to atmospheric pressure changes, Aspirin always worked well for me even in small amounts but now I cant take it anymore I switched to B2. I take a B complex (also containing B6) plus magnesium etc. and days of weather change I add extra 200~400mg of B2 which helps me a bit, not effective as Aspirin but it does something, its main effect is at neuronal/mitochondria level for what I know.

Thanks yomama. Yeah, certain weather changes seem to be a one of a number of potential trigger for me too.
I've been trying to take a little aspirin (~100-200mg) and a little decaf daily for the last few weeks, but I forget the aspirin quite often. Larger amounts seem to sometimes help defer it, but not as effective as ibuprofen. I don't think I feel good from larger amounts regularly.
Interesting that you take the B2 only when you are in risk conditions - I haven't tried that variant - the studies I read were for daily preventive doses, but I like the idea of using the larger doses only intermittently.

 

[tara]

post 114026 I have CoQ10/ubiquinone here, but have not tried it systematically yet.

Haidut posted an opinion that vit-K2 can do most/all the good things that CoQ10 does. I supplement ~2 mg vit-K2 most days.

 

[Peata]

Thought this was interesting for any of you migraine sufferers. Not all of it Peaty, but there might be some info to use: How To Eliminate Migraines And Headaches In Less Than A Week

 

[Nikki]

I suffer of chronic migraine mainly related to atmospheric pressure changes, Aspirin always worked well for me even in small amounts but now I cant take it anymore I switched to B2. I take a B complex (also containing B6) plus magnesium etc. and days of weather change I add extra 200~400mg of B2 which helps me a bit, not effective as Aspirin but it does something, its main effect is at neuronal/mitochondria level for what I know.

Not to be personal but could you explain why someone might not be able take aspirin? It seems like it is completely safe as long as one take the proper amoount of vit K with it, but I may be missing something.
If you have verified detrimental effects I would like to know what these are, if it's not too personal .
thanks!

 

[yomama]

Not to be personal but could you explain why someone might not be able take aspirin? It seems like it is completely safe as long as one take the proper amoount of vit K with it, but I may be missing something.
If you have verified detrimental effects I would like to know what these are, if it's not too personal .
thanks!

The Vitamin K mainly related to coagulation is the K1 and its supplementation is only effective when you are deficient of it, besides the fact it's just one of the multiple factors involved in coagulation.

Aspirin works as antiplatelet agent through the inhibition of thromboxane, to be exact through the inhibition of the COX-n enzymes used to synthesize it and also used to synthesize some of the prostaglandins required for the protection of the gastrointestinal mucosa, from which the risk of gastrointestinal diseases, ulcers and bleeding.

I first had to do an Interferon session and they explicitly advice against using Aspirin when so because it interfere with the Interferon. Second I had a very low platelets count and almost die from gastrointestinal bleeding so I had to stop it.

And yes B2 is still effective for me, when I feel a migraine is coming I usually take 200 up to 400 mg of B2 and it works for me.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Thanks Wilfrid. Do you mean as a daily preventive or to try to stop a migraine that is already underway?
I have CoQ10/ubiquinone here, but have not tried it systematically yet.
My experience with caffeine is that even smaller amounts can sometimes (but not always) interrupt a migraine in the early stages, but tehn it keeps trying to come back, and the more coffee I've drunk, the worse it is. Initially the coffee tastes and feels good, but after a while it starts to taste and feel bad, and I don't force it.


Since I've not had any darmatically good effects from high doses, I think I should probably at least drop down to normal small doses, and maybe take a break from it. I think sometimes low salt and distorted water handling may be part of my migraine pattern. It's a while since I last had cholesterol tested, but it wasn't low then.
Could it be that cholesterol is lowered because the riboflavin helps in the conversion to downstream steroid hormones?

I know this is old, but 100-200mg of caffeine powder (not coffee) has stopped a developing migraine for me within 20 minutes.

Thought I'd mention it in case you haven't tried the powder route, instead of cups of coffee.

 

[tara]

I know this is old, but 100-200mg of caffeine powder (not coffee) has stopped a developing migraine for me within 20 minutes.

And it [eta:]didn't bite you back on the withdrawal end?

 

[tomisonbottom]

And it bite you back on the withdrawal end?

No, just took care of it and was good to go

 

[tara]

[got it, I think :)]

 

[tomisonbottom]

[got it, I think :)]

I think your question was did I get withdrawal symptoms? Not sure what you meant by that, but was just trying to say the caffeine took care of the headache, with no side effects. :)

 

[tara]

I think your question was did I get withdrawal symptoms? Not sure what you meant by that, but was just trying to say the caffeine took care of the headache, with no side effects. :)

Yes, I tend to get problems with withdrawal from coffee, which amongst other things worsen the migraines, even if in the first hand coffeee might interrupt a migraine sometimes. I'd expect the same to happen with caffeine.