Risk/Reward Analysis and Personal Decision Making on Covid 19 Vaccines

managing

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It is becoming apparent that in the near term it may be necessary to have a Covid 19 vaccine in order to access certain privileges and opportunities we formerly took for granted. I want to have a thread dedicated to a) sorting through the risks posed by various vaccines and b) the proposition of whether to get a vaccine.

What I respectfully ask is that the thread not become:
--about whether Covid 19 is real
--about whether Covid 19 is dangerous
--about the origins of Covid 19
--about George Soros, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc.
--about whether masks are effective or not
--about vaccines in general
--about rights, government, spies, conspiracies, etc.

Those are all valid topics, but I am trying to keep things focused on the personal decision. And those threads already exist.

So, here are my preliminary thoughts. There are 3 leading vaccines in the west: Pfizer (P), Moderna (M) and Astrazeneca (AZ). P and M use an mRNA approach that has never been used before. Ever. Dr. Peat has expressed alarm that their genes could be expressed by human DNA. Our genes have incorporated DNA from many (viral) invaders over the millenia. So this is not a crazy idea. Could those genes be expressed down the line, perhaps in response to some stressor? Causing a catecholamine storm that is deadly or disabling? Could they be incorporated into human DNA of future generations with similar results?

On the one hand, this seems somewhat alarmist and reactionary. On the other hand, am I confident that smart people who say "these are safe" actually have the abilities required and have taken the steps to determine that this is, in fact, safe? No. Not even close to confident in that.

P and M also use a really strong dose of polyethylene glycol (PEG) as a preservative (as well as ridiculously cold temps) because this stuff is insanely unstable. PEG is a true irritant, capable of triggering a catecholamine storm by itself in some people (although that is extreme, but nearly everybody will have an inflammatory reaction to it). At least it is something the body can detox fairly rapidly, compared to thimerosal for example.

AZ on the other hand has taken a strand of the spike protein the coronavirus uses to attach to ACE receptors and combined it with a harmless adenovirus. Using an adenovirus to introduce a portion of a dangerous virus so that the immune system learns to recognize it, w/o the risk of the actual virus. I have not yet been able to find out if AZ is using a preservative, but this method is much more stable than the M/P method.

All in all, I am kind of a "no f'ing way" on the P/M vaccs at this time. The AZ vacc doesn't scare me as much. Based on current knowledge.

Where I am on risk/reward assessment is that I am not rushing out to get any of these for me or my family. However, I do think it is possible that the decision will be pressed at some point. Hence doing this work. Very interested in what others have to say?

Special thanks to @jamies33 for bringing this up in a different thread and inspiring me to make this thread.
 

nomoreketones

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Another reason to be suspicious of the P and M vaccine.

"People with a "significant history of allergic reactions" should not be given the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, UK health authorities said Wednesday, after two health care workers experienced symptoms after receiving a shot the day before."

Source;
 

YourUniverse

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Canada is using Pfizer's vaccine and it is looking likely vaccination will be 'essential but not mandatory'. Awesome.

A few additional thoughts in this thread: Canadian PM Just Confirmed The "Great Reset" Is Not A Conspiracy

Carrying around a health passport can't possibly be a measure forever. If the avenues a non-vaccinated state closes are not important, it may be possible to wait this period out. For example, it seems likely the private sector will be the ones mandating the vaccinations/health passports, especially the industries which have been heavily closed and quarantined: airlines, restaurants, bars, movie theatres. I believe it is against the law for employers to mandate vaccinations, although that may change in public-facing spheres like in health and education.

I worry that more public backlash and scrutiny against vaccination will yield greater governmental control on the matter. It's risky to speak out, and it's risky to stay quiet. Who really among us are allies? A lot of people I come into contact with seem very pro-vaccine. As my personal stance is in trusting Ray, and looking at the data, I see no reason why a virus with a 0.01% mortality (which is a number already inflated by socio-political pressures, like hospital grants and etc) REQUIRES a vaccination. What, really, is going on? I do not trust this with a Trudeau-in-blackface-sized pole.

Religious/conscious exemption?
 
OP
managing

managing

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Another reason to be suspicious of the P and M vaccine.

"People with a "significant history of allergic reactions" should not be given the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, UK health authorities said Wednesday, after two health care workers experienced symptoms after receiving a shot the day before."

Source;
I assume that is a reaction to PEG. Of course, it is entirely possible there are other factors too.

It is my main purpose for this thread. The P/M vaccines really worry me. My mom is determined to get one as soon as they come out (like next week). She is 74 and not terribly healthy. I explained why I think she should at least wait. But she made her decision.
 
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managing

managing

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Australia just canceled development of a vaccine (CSL) because some of the phase 1 trial participants subsequently had false positives for HIV. So they canceled the vaccine so they wouldn't have to modify HIV screening. That is . . . odd.

 

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