RIP Charles R. Poliquin

yerrag

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I megadosed fish oil due to him.

S
-hit!

We learn our lesson. It's humbling also when we think we are helping people by giving "sound" advice, only later to find out it's far from sound, dangerous even. It's small consolation that we meant well.
 

Tenacity

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A wise woman told me, " Dying is part of living."

Ringo Starr, " It is not how you died, it is how you lived."
Many of the things that lead to early death also reduce quality of life in some way shape or form.
 
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-hit!

We learn our lesson. It's humbling also when we think we are helping people by giving "sound" advice, only later to find out it's far from sound, dangerous even. It's small consolation that we meant well.

This is why I dont give advice or testimony unless I've experimented with something for a good long time. I've made the mistake of suggesting fish oil and other dumb sh*t to people and it makes me feel terrible. Made me learn to not give advice unless asked, and to be very conservative with what advice I do give.
 

YourUniverse

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This is why I dont give advice or testimony unless I've experimented with something for a good long time. I've made the mistake of suggesting fish oil and other dumb sh*t to people and it makes me feel terrible. Made me learn to not give advice unless asked, and to be very conservative with what advice I do give.
Its a sign of maturity to accept one knows very little
 
L

lollipop

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Even more tragic. What's the point? The only worthy pursuit is being the last one to the grave, not the first.

I'm sticking to my gardening, tai chi, qigong and dance.

Respect the body and learn to harness energy.

Qigong Benefits - Energy Arts
+1 on Qigong! @Ella glad to hear you are appreciating it. I certainly am - kind of blown away the difference it is making for both my husband and myself.
 

jitsmonkey

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For me, the concern is:
Does it even bring long term results?

What would be the real net benefit. Not negative just curious as I think about it myself

Even if short term they can be incredibly helpful for people with "wasting" oriented diseases.
For certain athletes in certain contexts it can be helpful in recovery from a serious injury or overcoming a given plateau.
Context is king.
AAS can be incredibly useful tools for the right person in the right time and place with a sane and intelligent approach.
I'm not an advocate and I'm not one for a binary good/bad perspective on things.

and for the record NOTHING brings long term results except behavior.
whether you're referring to thyroid, milk, oj, protein, whatever.... none of it brings long term results
you have to wake up every morning and execute the behavior. the magic is in the behavior not the thing.
 

Ella

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Heart disease ran in the family of my old lipid chemistry Professor. His father died very young in his 30s, grandfather also. I never forgot how furious he was that fish oils and omega 3s were being pushed onto the public. His comment was, just because benefits have been shown, does not mean we should be showering in these oils. He was determined to not die of heart disease.

What benefits? In the event of needing a transplant of any kind, I might consider omega 3s over anti rejection medications, but then again progesterone may be a better option.
Fish oils suppress inflammation by suppressing the immune system. Pray we never need to make this decision in our life time and staying away from PUFAs + LPS are major preventatives to organ failure.
Changes of progesterone-induced blocking factor in patients after kidney transplantation. - PubMed - NCBI
It’s a good reminder to stay humble and not build a livelyhood spreading and living by strong ideas and remain curious and be ready to contradict ideas and ways of doing things in a big way.
:thumbup
 

thomas00

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How could a person die (seemingly) suddenly by fish oil? Isnt heavy fish oil more of a cancer risk, which is not exactly sudden in its effect.

RIP Mr. Poliquin...


DART 2 trial-


"Risk of cardiac death was higher among subjects advised to take oily fish than among those not so advised;"

"Men advised to eat oily fish, and particularly those supplied with fish oil capsules, had a higher risk of cardiac death."

Lack of benefit of dietary advice to men with angina: results of a controlled trial. - PubMed - NCBI
 

YourUniverse

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T-Bone

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What always amazes me is the number of people that assume Poliquin would still be with us had he lived a normal Modern life. Eating out almost daily, getting 6hours of craopy sleep each night, working a job you don't like, exercising very little etc. This typical life frequently results in individuals living into their 80s . Is this a result of the lifestyle or a result of genetics? I will say it's a result of genetics. In the case of poliquin with a family history of heart disease and extremely early deaths,as well as a history of heart surgery and heart attacks in his thirties is it clear indicator of congenital heart problems. Taking 45 fish oil tablets daily, and also eating a diet high in saturated fat may not have been a great option for someone like Charles, although for normal healthy people it would not have likely resulted in an early death at 57. People then go on to assume it was anabolic steroids. Let's try to explore this topic a little bit. Based on Charles physique and by his own admission it's obvious that he is experienced in the use of PEDs. Okay so what? Do you think he took the same doses as Lee Haney, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ronnie Coleman, rich gaspari, Lee labrada, Dorian Yates, Tom platz, Bill kazmaier etc.... Hell no. Were these guys healthier genetically? Most likely.

The bottom line is that when a fat guy dies of heart attack in his 50s or 60s, people are rarely shocked. Being severely overweighta puts incredible strain on the cardiovascular system, the people don't blame red meat or candy bars because also too much of anyting other than sleep and fresh produce is likely to cause health problems, shity food has not Ben is newsworthy as terrifying topics to the public such as steroid use.

Does steroid use cause health problems? Sometimes depending on dosage, years of abuse, and more than anything else the amount of extra tissue that your body is required to support with a cardiovascular system that was designed to pump blood optimally through a man of 170 lb who is now 300 pounds. That's the cardiovascular risk. Polequin was obviously not taking one tenth of what Olympia guys are taking. The fact that he lived the be 57 when his father died in his 30s says more about the benefits of exercise and an active lifestyle including their abilities to prolong life then it says about past steroid use being the cause of his early death. The grim reality is 57 maybe too Young to die for your average healthy individual, but in the family with the cardiovascular curse of the Poliquins it's possible that his fitness oriented lifestyle probably prolonged his life expectancy.

As a final anecdotal note, I worked with the man at my last job whose father passed away from heart disease in his mid-forties. By all accounts, his father was a very slender man who didn't smoke or drink. His son who is now in his mid-50s, is very skinny and doesn't smoke or drink.Although he thinks he eats healthy because he brings a bag lunch to work everyday and avoids eating bacon and eggs and McDonald's, he's constantly pounding coffee and eating the same ham or roast beef sandwich with mayonnaise everyday. In other words, he isn't eating healthy diet, he works his **** off, has tremendous anxiety, and although deep down he's a pretty good guy, he typically lets his stress get the best of him and can be extremely uncomfortable to work with and stressful situations.. my theory is that his father died of heart disease caused by tremendous anxiety. As we've all heard, learning to manage and cope with stress is one of the more critical aspects I'm avoiding early major cardiac events.

Whenever something like steroids is in the picture, which it is with all athletes in the highest level of competitive sports from bodybuilding and powerlifting 2 baseball and cycling. Although it is not as shocking to hear about the early deaths of bodybuilders like Nasser El sonbaty, Greg Kovacs, Dallas McCarver, Rich Pianna etc, these are guys who took so much gear that their body weights were literally 100 lb more then they would be otherwise. To support a hundred pounds of extra dense muscle ( and that is an addition to a body that was already naturally muscular and would be capable of winning natural bodybuilding contest s), you are putting your heart's useful life under tremendous stress.. if you purchased a piece of industrial manufacturing equipment with the useful life of 15 years at a rate of production of 20000 units a month, and you ran the thing 16 hours a day versus 8 hours a day pumping out 40,000 units a month, a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that by doubling the work you would cut the useful life in half. Living tissue operates based on the same general principles. A average human heart in a person of average weight, body composition, average physiology including stress levels, metabolism, etc and assuming a reasonable amount of weekly exercise should result in a heart that beats within a fairly consistent range over the course of a life before it fails assuming the person is not a victim of some other disease. In the case of identical twins who lead a similar lifesryle, you can probably expect that their hearts have the same general number of beats for the same number of years. If on the other hand you take one of those two twins, make him a 280-pound bodybuilding monster through the aid of PEDs and a crazy diet while the other twin is and exercise enthusiast leading fairly typicall life but watches what he eats, doesn't use peds and weighs in at a muscular 185 lb. Wouldn't it stand to reasonthat he will outlive his 280-pound bodybuilding brother. Of course it does he will probably outlive him by at least 15 to 20 years, unless his brother body builds until he's in his mid-thirties and then quickly turns things back to normal. Then he may obly outlive him buy a handful of years or possibly none at all. This is all just common sense gang. did Heavy anabolic steroid use which probably wasn't that heavy compared to many people do increase poliquin's lifespan? Of course it didn't. Was it the cause of his death? Based on his family's history I would go so far as to say of course it wasn't. I would also say that people who simply jumped to that conclusion, are intellectually lazy and believe that what they say has merit. Well, after I found out his family history which any doctor will tell you is the most important factor in determining the likelihood of 1 developing cancer or heart disease, my first thought was genetics obviously played a significant role in Mister poliquin's demise. Steroids could have been a contributing factor, but in my view steroids were a part of a bigger picture which if you'd with a critical eye suggest that poliquin did everything in his power to maximize his performance, appearance and self-confidence which also included a very active lifestyle, including eating very clean whole foods. These factors actually increased his longevity and perhaps if he trained and ate the same way but it wasn't natural he may have made it to 65 but this guy was screwed at birth given his congenital heart condition of course part of what I'm doing is piecing things together which involves making assumptions and a certain amount of speculation but I would bet everything I have against anyone who believes that he was destined to live to be 90 years old because he did all this healthy stuff but the fish oil and steroids just did him in. They may have shortened his life, in light of how perfect it was never the other way, but if he lives the same lifestyle as people criticizing him he would have been lucky to make it to 40. This is my way I'm saying and respectful fashion that you don't know what the hell you're talkin about, so unless you have evidence, you are nothing more than a jerk off who believes everything he readsand what you read are not scientific periodicals or journals but the New York times Newsweek and any other fake news source that's vilifies peds. News flash, peds are like alcohol, if everybody on the planet use peds to some extentwe would have the equivalent of the PED alcoholic who dies Young but most people would be the responsible PED equivalent of somebody who drinks sociallyand limit their total alcohol intake over the weekend to 5 to 10 drinks.. that guy is the equivalent of a trt program and the alcoholic is the equivalent of a competitive bodybuilder. not trying to be a know-it-all, but in this case I simply know that I am right because I'm not drawing in the absolute conclusion but merely saying here's what is the most logical explanation based on the information that's available to us. I really love the moron who said it was the trenbolone as if there's evidence that poliquin was a big trenbolone freak and two doses of tren that was rival the doses that all the Olympia competitors are obviously taking regularly
 
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