Reversing Rapidly Accelerated Face Aging?

[Dhair]

Except idea labs? I woild think USP good enough to certify that at least a large number of the molecules in a sample are what they say - correct?

From Jman:

Q: "I was wondering if you have much knowledge about the manufacturing methods of pregnenolone? What would it would take to produce something that matches the quality of the Syntex produced pregnenolone you have spoken of?"

RP: "I think it would take someone who worked at that factory at the time, since the chemists are always fiddling with their processes. Vitamins C and E, and probably others,have gone through many phases, with changing biological effects."

 

[benaoao]

just a rapid heads up on PUFAs because I want to be the devil advocate for a second. The issue is Arachidonic acid overconsumption, and oxidation of PUFAs. The issue isn't Linoleic Acid, and if the diet is rich and/or supplemented in vitamin C and E, oxidation isn't going to be a problem. Keep in mind some oxidation is absolutely necessary, just like inflammation, it's about balance. The best value isn't 0.

so here is a meta analysis which is IMO the single best way to avoid sensational headlines from one or two biased studies.

Increasing dietary linoleic acid does not increase tissue arachidonic acid content in adults consuming Western-type diets: a systematic review

Linoleic acid is specifically required in the skin to maintain the integrity of the epidermal water barrier and AA is the immediate precursor to eicosanoids, as well as being the n-6 PUFA selectively incorporated into the membranes of certain tissues, i.e., brain. When consumed (LA vs. AA), they appear to have differential effects on tissue fatty acid composition, where AA appears to more robustly modify tissue AA levels and eicosanoids

While LA is the major PUFA in most commonly consumed foods, AA is exclusively found in animal products, such as, muscle, organ meats and eggs. They have distinct biological activities that are biochemically linked via desaturation and elongation, and as such, LA is the conditionally essential fatty acid.

When AA was supplemented in the diet, there was further enrichment in tissue AA content above that observed with either LA or GLA. These results suggest that delta-5 desaturase potentially becomes rate limiting when GLA is supplemented. The reaction mediated by delta-5 desaturase is an intermediate step between GLA and AA and by-passing that step with dietary AA leads to further enrichment. These data seem to suggest that while dietary LA maybe a metabolic precursor for AA, its influence on tissue levels in populations consuming Western diets are limited by the enzymatic conversion through delta-6 desaturase and not due to tissue saturation of AA. These data are supported by the poor rates of conversion of plasma/serum LA to AA in adults. In tracer studies involving stable isotopes, the estimated fractional conversion of LA to AA was between 0.3% and 0.6%

I think @Westside PUFAs would agree with this message. It's just how it is. Eat whole foods, rich in nutrients, let the body fix itself. Avoid low quality animal foods, that on top of a bad fat content may also be high in vitamin A, iron, copper, AA and others that are "bioidentical" and therefore accumulate. Which is fine in case of a diagnosed deficiency, I guess.

 

[shepherdgirl]

wow! Do you know if he was he taking it orally or topically?

Not positive, but I believe he was taking it orally based on a story he told on KMUD.

 

[Arnold Grape]

I was having similar issues and will agree with much of what is said here. Eating a good amount of Gelatin seems to have positive effects, off the bat - and I think cleaning the liver with Vitamin C and possibly k reduces system iron that contributes to aging. Additionally progesterone will give you pretty dramatic effects, but I would use caution, as with any hormones.

 

[cyclops]

Q: "I was wondering if you have much knowledge about the manufacturing methods of pregnenolone? What would it would take to produce something that matches the quality of the Syntex produced pregnenolone you have spoken of?"

RP: "I think it would take someone who worked at that factory at the time, since the chemists are always fiddling with their processes. Vitamins C and E, and probably others,have gone through many phases, with changing biological effects."

But the idea labs product could be good too. Do we know for sure if Peat has tried that one?

 

[cyclops]

Absolutely not

Peat doesn't like em. He says no to avocados.

 

[benaoao]

Peat doesn't like em. He says no to avocados.

that's his view of ALA/LA deficiency and how eating sugar and sat fats only will lead to Mead acids. Somehow beneficial. Proper debunking hereafter, but you do you. My post above clearly addressed the point in a more extensive fashion than a simple yes/no.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...-ray-peat-on-essential-fatty-acid-deficiency/

The irony is how people in the comments want to convince themselves that non-western people eat no PUFAs where it's easily documented that Maasai will eat legumes, nuts and seeds if they find them.

Sorry if this was all rather off topic. Although mice deficient in PUFAs seem to have quite the skin problems OP is describing.

Scientists have induced EFA deficiency in animals by feeding them fully hydrogenated coconut oil as their only fat. (Full hydrogenation gets rid of all the EFAs; coconut oil is used because it is the only fat that can be fully hydrogenated and still be soft enough to eat.) The animals developed dry coats and skin and slowly declined in health, dying prematurely. (Interestingly, representatives of the vegetable oil industry blame the health problems on coconut oil, not on fatty acid deficiency!)

That last sentence is funny - People love to twist studies the way that fits their agenda best.

 

[Travis]

that's his view of ALA/LA deficiency and how eating sugar and sat fats only will lead to Mead acids. Somehow beneficial. Proper debunking hereafter, but you do you. My post above clearly addressed the point in a more extensive fashion than a simple yes/no.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...-ray-peat-on-essential-fatty-acid-deficiency/

The irony is how people in the comments want to convince themselves that non-western people eat no PUFAs where it's easily documented that Maasai will eat legumes, nuts and seeds if they find them.

Sorry if this was all rather off topic. Although mice deficient in PUFAs seem to have quite the skin problems OP is describing.



That last sentence is funny - People love to twist studies the way that fits their agenda best.

The Weston A. Price foundation is financially supported by certain corporations that sell linoleic acid, and had been supported by others in the past when their older articles had been written.They are wrong besides, and omega−6 fatty acids have never been rigorously proven to be essential and there is actually no logical basis for this claim. The only truly essential fatty acid is α-linolenic acid becuse it's the only known precursor for DHA, a deficiency of which is actually fatal. The original studies conducted in the early '40s usually did not differentiate between the 18∶3 stereoisomers, meaning that both α-linolenic (ω−3) and γ-linolenic acids (ω−6) had been treated as one entity. The scaling and increased transpiration of the skin in the butter-fed rats had obviously been the result of water–lipid interactions and physical membrane properties, or a lack of unsaturation in general—easily reversed but done so most effectively by DHA (although arachidonic acid and 20∶5ω−6 will work to a lesser degree). If you seriously think that ω−6 fatty acids are essential after reading a few of the classic studies then you should explain why you think they are essential, but linking articles backed by corporate funding is never proof of anything.

 

[benaoao]

That’s nice to bring up - the only true essential fatty acid is ALA, which happens to be polyunsaturated. So that’s an important reminder.

As arachidonic acids do have an important role in the cell membrane, it is therefore beneficial to have a small amount of omegas 6 in the diet. It’s been typically consumed in the form of nuts, seeds, avocados, and so on in the past. The ratio has been 1:1 ish. It’s most definitely reasonable to go for a very low omega 6 intake after years/decades of high (animal+vegetable oil) pufa consumption.

Saying omega 6s aren’t essential is obviously true from a biochemistry standpoint. Just like glucose isn’t essential, nor is fiber, some amino acids and so on. So yeah we can survive without them. Does it mean their optimal dietary intake is 0, and should we ban all REAL foods that provide some? No.

 

[benaoao]

And the little bit of research I’ve done on Peat’s way of thinking seems to point towards his belief that sugar leads to Meads acids by way of lipogenesis. And that is somehow beneficial. Hence the Weston Price post above.

If you believe that relying on Meads acids is superior, it would be akin to believing that ketosis is superior, and I won’t agree with all of the above :)

 

[YourUniverse]

I have developed deep lines under my eyes since my health got a lot worse about 2 years ago. I have always looked young for my age, but now I look about 10 years older than I am. I realize this is purely an issue of vanity, and it's not my biggest problem by a long stretch, but I find it to be pretty traumatic.
Has anyone had any success with fixing this kind of problem? I think it would be helpful if I could believe that it's reversible.

Just a thought scenario, in these last 2 years, has there been an uptick of problems that you chronically put off to tackle at a later date?

 

[Dhair]

Just a thought scenario, in these last 2 years, has there been an uptick of problems that you chronically put off to tackle at a later date?

It would take too long to explain fully, but after my finasteride/flouroqinolone poisoning crash I developed severe depersonalization/derealization and a laundry list of physical and mental symptoms that persist to this day and my brain simply cannot focus on all of them. I'm still struggling to survive, so my physical appearance is not a big issue. It was just bothering me on the day I decided to make this thread.

 

[YourUniverse]

It would take too long to explain fully, but after my finasteride/flouroqinolone poisoning crash I developed severe depersonalization/derealization and a laundry list of physical and mental symptoms that persist to this day and my brain simply cannot focus on all of them. I'm still struggling to survive, so my physical appearance is not a big issue. It was just bothering me on the day I decided to make this thread.

Sorry to hear, I imagine you must be suffering quite a bit. I hope you find help on this board.

"my brain simply cannot focus on all of them". Maybe list-making would be helpful for you? It can help organize your thoughts, so you dont feel pressured to have to remember them all the time. Seeing them on screen can relieve some mental tension, and then chipping away at the to-do will alleviate stress, which would otherwise only enhance aging. I like workflowy.com for making lists

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Mindy. I got fake stuff.

I would warn anyone against using current pregnenolone products. Ray acknowledges that all of the pregnenolone available today is not like what he was using from the Syntex factory in Mexico decades ago. Some of the side effects that people report on this forum from taking pregnenolone like overstimulation, depression, and even psychosis are not supposed to happen from taking pregnenolone ever, and the medical literature backs this up. Ray told me himself that he has had bad reactions to every current pregnenolone product on the market.

Does this include the stuff @haidut puts out?

 

[haidut]

Does this include the stuff @haidut puts out?

It would be interesting to hear Peat say what he think those contaminants are. I don't think he has used our products but our pregnenolone is 99.9% pure. The remaining 0.1% are mostly pregnenolone metabolites and our lab test show no heavy metal contamination or other toxins. So, what could these impurities be that trigger such bad symptoms in such low concentrations??

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

It would be interesting to hear Peat say what he think those contaminants are. I don't think he has used our products but our pregnenolone is 99.9% pure. The remaining 0.1% are mostly pregnenolone metabolites and our lab test show no heavy metal contamination or other toxins. So, what could these impurities be that trigger such bad symptoms in such low concentrations??

Could be something else. Peat has a self absorbed, almost autistic way of looking at things. For a guy who takes a holistic look at things he doesn't seem to be approaching this too holistically. Perhaps pregnenolone affected him well in Mexico because he was young, living in the sun, and having a good time.
Or maybe they put cocaine in it.

I don't think its the pregnenolone so much as it is the people

 

[haidut]

I don't think its the pregnenolone so much as it is the people

True dat.

 

[Tenacity]

Using a pregnenolone product gave me mouth ulcers. It was the Life Extension brand. Other ingredients were rice flour, gelatin and vegetable stearate, none of which have given me ulcers in the past.

 

[Dhair]

Could be something else. Peat has a self absorbed, almost autistic way of looking at things. For a guy who takes a holistic look at things he doesn't seem to be approaching this too holistically. Perhaps pregnenolone affected him well in Mexico because he was young, living in the sun, and having a good time.
Or maybe they put cocaine in it.

I don't think its the pregnenolone so much as it is the people

True dat.

It has to be either that he's just flat out wrong about pregnenolone's therapeutic benefits, or the products are vastly different from what they once were. There really is no middle ground here. The only thing I know for sure is that most people seem to have a very hard time with pregnenolone, so if it's a problem with the people, then I imagine it would be a pretty large sample size.
By the way, all of the major pregnenolone brands that I can think of claim they have a high purity product, usually backed up with a CoA, so that's clearly not the issue.

 

[cyclops]

He needs to try the Idea Labs product. Maybe the ones Peat has tried aren't as high quality.