Reversing Gynecomastia - Bloodwork Follow Up

[DankMemes]

post 113371 Now that I've consciously tracked my protein intake this past month and aimed for about 90g / day I'm not sure if my protein was as high as I thought it was before. If anything, I was probably eating high fat (100g or more, 50% or more of my calorie intake). That would explain the satiating effect that I sought out previously, and that that I found myself having to compensate for with frequent carb intake now that I've been getting like 40-50g / day.

Also, I've posted new bloodwork results: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8819&p=113366#p113366

We seem to be in a very similar position, I have slightly elevated enzymes, suffer constipation and now gynecomastia etc.

I seem to crave lots of protein, but can't tolerate red meat. I suspect it's something to do with the temperature/cooking method which makes it rough on my stomach, I can eat near unlimited amount of steamed fish and cheese and it makes me feel very relaxed.

I think the liver should be your main focus, from there you'll be better at burning sugar, better at controlling estrogen etc.

 

[NathanK]

Yeah, keep testing and experimenting. There's a lot of stuff around here on healing the liver. How good it actually is I think depends on the individual. Be sure to get you b vitamins, K2, and maybe some caffeine since it has fatty liver healing properties and is also a 5AR enhancer as I think Haidut mentioned in the thread I posted. Let us know how it goes. Healing always takes a while especially with all the experimenting

 

[DankMemes]

Another update, my second round of blood tests came in.

My prolactin has dropped to 336 miu/L (45-375)!!

That would have been when I was taking ~15mg of progesterone a day which I've since stopped because I thought it was making my nipples worse.

My libidio is much stronger and my strength in the gym has come back, I'm still very self concious of my chest but I think it's slowly improving. I have a shipment of progesterone and DHEA/prgenenolone on the way, but I don't think I'll be using them (DHEA might not even make it past customs).

Also I've been accepted into university for 2016, when my employers found out they promptly fired me (been working here for 4.5 years and got a weeks notice)

Part of me is pissed off that they could dismiss me with so little notice and the way they tried to manipulate me into training other with knowledge/skills etc. But at the same time, I actually hated working there. I won't be stuck in an office for 8 hours glued to a screen missing out on the sunlight. It's an odd feeling, kind of stressed that I don't have a paycheck coming in but also relieved that there's nothing stopping me from studying studying in a field that I love. I think I'll be fine, I just need to be a bit more frugal for a while.

I've been eating a lot more potatoes, coke and juice. I don't really have the money for cheese any more and milk still gives me problems. I'm able to get whiting fillets for $9/kg which is not too bad, so they'll probably be making up the bulk of my protein. Calcium:phosphorus might be a problem, but I feel like Peat exaggerates how bad this is, I wonder how many people in the western world actually have calcium > phosphorus (though the average person probably isn't that healthy)

There's nothing I can really do about my gynecomastia, I just need to try and heal my liver and let it sort out the excess estrogen. Finding food that doesn't give me problems is still hard, potatoes and coke is something I can always eat without problems but then I get concious that I'm not consuming enough vitmin A and C, not getting calcium, not enough protein etc etc.

Peace

 

[DankMemes]

I've been taking steps to reduce exogenous estrogen from my cosmetics and I find it's helping a lot.

I brush my teeth and cleanse my face with coconut oil and I've stopped using my cologne (it would always give me headaches, I don't know why I used it in the first place).

Lately I've been craving cigarettes badly, I've ordered some pure organic tobacco (American Spirit) because standard cigarettes taste horrible and are loaded with other chemicals.

I wonder if the positives of nicotine are worth the negatives of smoke. I cut down on smoking when I started trying to improve my health, I'd only have a few on social occasions but when I do smoke, I find they really relax me and keep my digestion regular.

Nicotine is supposed to raise DHT too which should help gynecomastia. Maybe I'm being ridiculous and I'm just trying to rationalise it to avoid feeling guilty, but I have this urge to give it a shot. I was recently at a Christmas party where everyone was eating pufa covered fries and washing it down with booze while chain smoking all day, it kind of made me jealous because all my friends are good looking, happy and "healthy" despite their lack of effort towards their health, whereas I'm constantly anxious, always falling ill and stuck with man boobs despite my dedication to my health. I think a lot of it comes down to mental stress and I'm hoping nicotine (and the fact that I'm relieving a craving) can help with that.

 

[Blossom]

post 115718 I think a lot of it comes down to mental stress and I'm hoping nicotine (and the fact that I'm relieving a craving) can help with that.

Have you considered the nicotine patch, gum or even a nicotine vaporizer? :)

 

[Dan W]

post 115732
Have you considered the nicotine patch, gum or even a nicotine vaporizer? :)

Seconded, I think you can get the benefits of nicotine without the downside of smoke. In addition to the things Blossom suggested, some people have suggested using nicotine liquid topically (with great care, given it can be easy to overdose) to get the benefits of patches/gum without the cost.

 

[DankMemes]

I've looked at those e-cigs/vaporizers but they're a bit pricey, I've just had a few cigarettes and I want to gauge how I respond to tobacco before I commit to a vaporizer.

Also I've changed up my diet a bit, I've cut the cheese (too expensive and too much fat) and started drinking skim milk again. My only problem with milk is that I get a thick white coating on my tongue, I don't have any bloating or other digestive symptoms with it though so I'm not sure if it's just a sign of excess local bacteria or a problem with my digestion.

I've started eating LOADS of coconut oil, like 6+ spoonfuls a day, It makes me so warm and gives energy. Does anyone have experiences with high intake of coconut oil? It's basically the only fat I'm eating now since cutting cheese but I'm worried it will inhibit weight loss or interfere with the randle cycle.

 

[Nicholas]

post 115876 Also I've changed up my diet a bit, I've cut the cheese (too expensive and too much fat) and started drinking skim milk again. My only problem with milk is that I get a thick white coating on my tongue, I don't have any bloating or other digestive symptoms with it though so I'm not sure if it's just a sign of excess local bacteria or a problem with my digestion.

I've started eating LOADS of coconut oil, like 6+ spoonfuls a day, It makes me so warm and gives energy. Does anyone have experiences with high intake of coconut oil? It's basically the only fat I'm eating now since cutting cheese but I'm worried it will inhibit weight loss or interfere with the randle cycle.

i would be concerned, too, about excess fat - especially in the form of coconut oil because it's a thyroid surrogate. warmth is not always the best indicator of oxidative metabolism....bodily function like restful sleep, digestive function, fluid balance are.

 

[Giraffe]

post 111465 Vitamin a does not suppress thyroid function. It may suppressed TSH, which is a good thing

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23378454/

It's the same study discussed here. I disagree with the conclusions of the authors.

 

[mayweatherking]

Your prolactin is high as ****. And your testosterone is over the range it looks like? How the hell did you manage that? I thought the increase prolactin would lower the T.

 

[Peata]

post 115876
I've started eating LOADS of coconut oil, like 6+ spoonfuls a day, It makes me so warm and gives energy. Does anyone have experiences with high intake of coconut oil? It's basically the only fat I'm eating now since cutting cheese but I'm worried it will inhibit weight loss or interfere with the randle cycle.

I wonder too.

I've started eating a little more of it too.

Let us know how you do with it. Also, how are you taking it - with meals, between, etc.?

So to sum it up, what is your regimen now for reducing the gyno? Nicotine, low fat except coconut oil, what else?

 

[DankMemes]

post 115883

i would be concerned, too, about excess fat - especially in the form of coconut oil because it's a thyroid surrogate. warmth is not always the best indicator of oxidative metabolism....bodily function like restful sleep, digestive function, fluid balance are.

Okay that's something I'll watch out for, Haidut made a post about coconut oil benefiting fatty liver, so it might be exactly what I need.

post 116143
So to sum it up, what is your regimen now for reducing the gyno? Nicotine, low fat except coconut oil, what else?

Taurine, choline, inositol, estroban, aspirin, nicotine.

Zince and p5p didn't help one bit, even at large doses for several days. Progesterone definitely made the problem worse, I think this is because it suppresses DHT.

Diet is basically skim milk, instant coffee, table sugar, potatoes, fish, liver, daily carrot and coconut oil. Lots of salt and sometimes coco powder.

I've been making a homemade chocolate, I don't really measure anything just use a bit of milk and dissolve lots of sugar in it, add a bunch of coconut oil, coco powder and even instant coffee to thicken and taste. It doesn't sound flashy but its tasty and makes me nice and warm, I just go to the fridge every few hours and get myself a spoonful, I'm trying not to stress about macros right down to every calorie.

On that note sometimes I wonder if I'm sick because I stress over nutrition and health or if I'm sick so I need to stress over nutrition and health. I have a few friends who are really relaxed vegan hippies (you know the type),they smoke all day and eat garbage non stop but they aren't afflicted with digestive issues, problems sleeping, sensitive skin etc. They just look healthy, no signs of stress or sickness if that makes sense, healthy nails, no dark circles, you get the idea.

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 116143
Progesterone definitely made the problem worse, I think this is because it suppresses DHT.

I'm thinking progesterone releases estrogens and these estrogens make you worse.

I think that's what happens with estrogens being released upon progesterone uptake.

Dr. Eckherd (I think he is real) of the Women's Institute who sells Progestelle (the best progesterone supp other than Haidut's) makes a very big point that you have to clear out estrogens from your body care products and kitchen and laundry room before embarking on progesterone. He tells men not to take progesterone until they've done this.

I also find iodine, yes even Lugol's, makes a difference and is a benefit against this estrogen battle.

Then a month or two later, you can start the progesterone.

Stop regular laundry detergent, any storage of foods (especially fatty foods) in plastic, probably OJ in plastic bottles is bad. But the laundry detergent is worse as residue goes through the skin into the body.

On that note sometimes I wonder if I'm sick because I stress over nutrition and health or if I'm sick so I need to stress over nutrition and health. I have a few friends who are really relaxed vegan hippies (you know the type),they smoke all day and eat garbage non stop but they aren't afflicted with digestive issues, problems sleeping, sensitive skin etc. They just look healthy, no signs of stress or sickness if that makes sense, healthy nails, no dark circles, you get the idea.

Yep, I get the idea. I was never able to be that way and can't start now. I could smoke pretty well, though, and I was good at eating garbage. But I was never healthy that way. Don't know why some are and some aren't.

I have a dog that is given a pretty good diet (I think) and she's ALWAYS had health issues since we got her as a young pup. I think maybe it has to do with the blessing of the right gut microbes starting out life. I think that has more to do with it than anything else. But that's sheer speculation.

 

[DankMemes]

post 116286 Stop regular laundry detergent, any storage of foods (especially fatty foods) in plastic, probably OJ in plastic bottles is bad. But the laundry detergent is worse as residue goes through the skin into the body.

What do you use instead of washing powder? I've replaced my face cleansers and toothpaste with coconut oil but that wouldn't wouldnt work for washing clothes.

Also, I'm going to try turmeric, there's a bit of talk about it improving gynecomastia but it's got a bit of an 'old wives tale' to it.

 

[ecstatichamster]

just use soap that contains things like sodium carbonate, sodium perchlorate, and similar things, no detergent which is estrogenic.

 

[DankMemes]

I've just received my pansterone (preg + dhea) from Haidut.

I'm a little iffy about taking it, if I'm prone to aromatisation then I'm worried that it will make the problem worse.

Apparently it takes the path of least resistance, my results show that I have high testosterone so maybe it won't go down the androgen path.

It is also suppose to boost DHT when levels are low, so it might be the very thing I need to fix my estrogen dominance.

I think Dr Peat said it's not ideal to take when hypo/estrogen dominant.

Low levels of DHEA are found in patients with fatty liver diease too.

Anyone have experiences with DHEA?

 

[DankMemes]

Ok after a bit more reading dhea may elevate prolactin, so maybe it's not a good idea to start using it.

 

[nullredvector]

@haidut do you have anything to contribute on gynecomastia and its reversal?

 

[James_001]

I order dht and proviron and will try them soon. I can post my results here if anyone is interested....

 

[nullredvector]

I order dht and proviron and will try them soon. I can post my results here if anyone is interested....

Yeah definitely. Can you PM me where you ordered from?