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Retinil - Liquid Vitamin A

  1. As discussed on several threads on the forum, I have finally managed to procure enough high-purity vitamin A and can now release a supplement that mimics closely the product from Nutrisorb. There are two options - one using retinyl acatete and providing a dose of 2,400 IU per drop, and one using retinyl palmitate and providing 5,000 IU per drop (courtesy to @Amazoniac lobbying). The palmitate version is also oil-based - i.e. the vitamin is dissolved in MCT and not ethanol/water.
    A very promising recent study (see first one in the references below) found that a single dose of vitamin A can be a viable treatment of autism! The positive effects were due to reductions of serotonin synthesis by vitamin A through inhibition of TPH. I cannot possibly overstate the importance of this finding given the low toxicity and low price of vitamin A, and its wide availability. Also, there aren't that many cheap and easily available chemicals that inhibit TPH, especially when taken as a single dose.
    Here are the details, and you can order from the links shown in my profile signature.

    : This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.

    Retinil is a liquid supplement containing high-purity vitamin A. The vitamin A form used in Retinil has been extensively studied in humans and animal models. According to Wikipedia retinyl acetate "...has potential antineoplastic and chemopreventive activities". The product can be used on its own or in combination with other supplements.

    Servings per container: about 360
    Each drop contains the following ingredients:

    Retinyl: acetate - 2,400 IU | palmitate - 5,000 IU

    Other ingredients: add product to shopping cart to see info

    Vitamin A May Be A Viable Therapy For Autism (human Study)
    Retinyl acetate - Wikipedia
    NCI Drug Dictionary
    Retinyl acetate inhibits mammary carcinogenesis induced by N-methyl-N-nitrosourea. - PubMed - NCBI
  2. I'm happy to see this out, thanks for all your work on great supplements.

    Is it in an oil?
  3. Nice!
  4. Nope, it's in 20% ethanol solution. Better absorption and longer lasting. Also it does not make you skin greasy:):
  5. I'm not finding much comparing retinyl acetate to palmitate, did something nudge you in the direction of acetate?
  6. Well, it has higher bioequivalence to retinol. Most sources say that 1 IU of retinol is equal to 0.8 IU of retinyl acetate and 0.5 IU of retinyl palmitate. Also, most of the studies with prevention of cancer and lowering estrogen and cortisol were done with acetate. See the links in the references.
  7. Makes sense, thank you.

  8. Can you consume it orally or only by the skin ?
  9. Sure, you can consume it orally if you want but I can only officially recommend it topically.
  10. Thanks, appreciate the work.

  11. Haidut, I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to come up with Retinil. I look forward to having a decent liquid A supplement again.
    Well done and many thanks.
  12. You are welcome!
  13. What's the shelf life of Retinil? (and all the other Haidut supplements?)
    Do you need to keep in the fridge?
  14. The ones dissolved in ethanol probably can last years, but I'd say 12 months just to err on side of caution. The ones in oil can probably last up to 6 months in the fridge.
  15. Hello everybody,

    We will be on vacation for the next two weeks so won't be able to attend to orders placed between now and July 10. We will attend to those orders on July 11. Rather than shutting the store down like last year we decided to keep it open since the vendor we use for the online store has informed us that closing the store is only allowed if the company is shutting down. As such, we have to keep it open, but please keep in mind the 2 week delay for all orders placed between June 25 and July 10.
    Thank for your understanding and we look forward to resuming work in 2 weeks.
  16. I am back from vacation so the store is in full operation now.
  17. Good evening (well it is here!),
    I am interested in using elevated levels of Retinol (via Retinil) to help with eyesight and leukaemia. It is my contention that it should help with both conditions directly due to its effect on metabolism. Do tell me if I am wrong. Given an appropriate diet behind this, and not just the use of Retinol alone as powerful as it may be (it's not a magic wand), has anyone experienced improved eyesight using Vit A supplementation and if so, what sort of doses did you do and for how long please? I am just interested in a guide, not gospel, always my responsibility.

    From my experience 2500 - 5000 iu daily do not seem to have the effect hoped for. I can not find much in terms of studies for these conditions and Vitamin A (Retinol), but Retinoids have a clear chemotherapy effect in leukaemia. I however am interested in using metabolism to cause white blood cell maturity,and thereby reduce errant reproduction, not killing immature lymphocytes with patentable poisons. There is plenty of 'information' that too much Vit A and your head falls off, for starters - well you know what I mean - as if we all eat polar bear liver every day....

    FWIW, my observations to date are that taurine improves eyesight (500mg - 1500mg), not entirely sure of the mechanism, but since thiamine also appears useful in this regard, maybe the sulphur content is important. In which case, I would, once again finger liver metabolism being crucial for eyesight. As I write this, it's a duh really, sorry when one thinks about all the interconnections. I just find somethings have more obvious effect than others, taurine and eyes seem to be one of those.
    But really here, I am interested in people's experiences with Vitamin A supplementation. Very grateful for any comments, experiences or guidance, many thanks
  18. No, you definitely have not lost your mind. There is this thread to give you some ideas:
    So, 20mg MK-4 and 100,000 IU retinol daily should induce "remission" in a few weeks. Tetracycline / doxycycline does the same and keeps the "remission" indefinite.
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2000/02 ... kemia.html
    "...Claudia Huettner can switch off deadly leukemia in mice simply by putting an antibiotic in their drinking water. Her system even causes regression of advanced stages of the cancer. When the antibiotic-spiked water is withdrawn, the cancer returns."
    Note that the article says Claudia cannot do the same in humans. Do you know why? Not because it does not work but because she is not allowed to try.
    "...New tyrosine kinease inhibitors are now being tested on humans, but it remains to be proved that they can do the job alone. More effective treatments will probably involve combinations of the inhibitors with chemotherapy drugs, radiation, and bone marrow transplants. Such combinations must be tested on mice before being tried with humans."
    Human equivalent dose is about 200mg tetracycline or doxycycline in humans. Here is another thread on that.

    Keep in mind that the last study on antibiotics above showed doxycyline to be effective against ALL cancer types tested (at least 20 different types including pancreatic cancer and leukemia).
  19. :holysheep
  20. Dear Haidut
    As always, I am grateful for your help, dosage is so key and I could not find anything useful.
    I am sorry that, yet again, I missed your earlier report. I thought I had looked at everything in the Peatyverse on leukaemia, just not last month.Duh.
    FWIW iron storage and inflammation (often roseacea) seem involved here, that is my observation of 4 separate cases, just as RP suggests.
    I will keep you posted on the results of my trials, of course I will be doing this myself first.
    Once again, many thanks, your research is helping many more people than you will ever know (and keeping me 'relatively' sane too).
  21. Very interesting thread. Thanks!
  22. You are welcome. Spread the word as far as you can. The more people know about the effect of tetracyclines, vitamin K2, etc the higher the chance that official medicine will finally start to go in the direction of health vs. poison since people will simply stop buying the poison and the propaganda.
  23. Are there links to other threads or articles where I can read about using Vit A (like the Vit A offered in the Retinil product) in comparison with Accutane? I would like to stop taking Accutane, and instead work with taking Vitamin A. I have been noticing a lot of joint soreness in my hands and general fatigue, and know that it is at least partially because of the Accutane. TIA
  24. Don't know of any direct comparisons b/c most pharma companies would be against comparing their drug to a natural alternative. However, there are some threads on acne effectiveness showing 200,000 IU daily for women and 400,000 IU daily for men were as effective as accutane. If you convert the IU to mg you can compare effectiveness of equivalent doses.
  25. Is there any reason why taking 10-12 drops 2x/day in morning and early afternoon would somehow manifest into a racing heart and anxiety like attack at night? Could it be a synergistic reaction with the caffeine and/or niacinamide doses Ive been taking (and increasing) during the day creating some type of hyper thyroid event... or maybe some reaction to the caffeine and niacinamide doses wearing off? Could it be reacting with the progest-e I've taken just before that? I've kind of been getting the feeling lately that I've reached the point of diminishing returns on progesterone anyway. Could these events be a cortisol spike?
  26. I get similar reaction to anything over 100,000 IU vitamin A daily and the effect is the same as taking too much thyroid. High cortisol makes feel cold but vitamin A does not. Vitamin A also inhibit 11b-HSD1 so it should actually lower cortisol.
  27. I definitely didn't feel cold, so it must have been as you say happens to you. I wouldn't have thought that amount in such a short time could have spiked my thyroid up so much.

    Thanks for the reply.
  28. Did you see the study on obese women getting 30%+ boost in thyroid function from only 25,000 IU retinyl palmitate daily?
    Taking 10 drops of Retinil would be 25,000 IU and taking that twice a day probably boost thyroid function even more. If there is a point at which vitamin A inhibits thyroid, at least for me it is above 200,000 IU daily since I have tried that high as well and still got the same thermogenic effect.
  29. where are the best places to apply this topically, and is there a bigger benefit to taking it topically?
  30. If possible, I'd do the scalp or temples. Some people get cognitive boost from applying vitamin A close to or on the head.
    Wrists, earlobes, ankles, shoulders and inner thighs are also good places.
  31. I did see that study, but also saw a few others posted here that even higher amounts had benefits--so that was what I was trying to get up to. I have dropped back down to 10-12 drops once in the morning and have been fine. Will stay at that for awhile and see if I eventually start noticing a healthy, beneficial increase in thyroid function.
  32. Pleased to report that using Retinil (acetate) and some Nutrisorb (palmitate) at 50,000 iu over 6 months (source depending on availability), a gentleman I know had success with total reduction of overgrowth of blood vessels at the back of the eye (diabetic retinopathy). This result rather surprised the ophthalmologist who much preferred the standard treatment of anti-neoplastic injections to 'control' same. Such barbarism had not been done for a year. And no, said 'specialist' specifically did not want to know what had been done to achieve this remarkable result. Curiosity failure right there. One sign of potential vitamin A excess occurred that of very dry mouth but skin on arms has improved significantly, from angry red to appropriately tanned, no other obvious Vit A overload symptoms were seen (dandruff, acne, yellowing, dry eyes). There is the possibility that this approach also reduced high cortisol levels from a very stressful job as he recovers better and chiropractic manipulations hold (always an energy dependent thing, I feel). Whilst dosage of Vit A remains very person specific in my experience, the result is exactly what might be hoped from this approach and I trust it gives others hope/ideas.
    Just some feedback.
  33. That is just wonderful! Thanks for sharing and if any other notable things happen while using Retinil please keep me posted. It seems humble Retinil is doing more good than I imagined it would.
  34. Yes, Haidut, it's very good news, in this case it ensures he doesn't lose his vital driving licence, so many ramifications with eyes. More feedback in a few months on other people to come. This patient, btw prefers the palmitate version, we have no idea why, it's his intuitive response. And everyone is different. But the majority of this response was using Retinil, so it sure works.
    However, a question if I may. Do you think Vit A also has some kind of anti-histamine effect?
    Giraffe's report viewtopic.php?f=116&t=8227 suggests it decreases intestinal permeability, or rather makes it more appropriate. I note also that it was three separate high doses. This may be worth considering for other bacteria-prone, worm-prone, kind of children.
    Any thoughts, at your convenience, would be great. Thanks
  35. The protective activity of vitamin A on the entire GI tract is well known. It was given to people with radiation damage to the GI tract back in the 1960.
    As far as it being an anhistamine, it is quite possible even though I have not seen much study on that. Something to consider:

    Finally, vitamin A is anti-estrogenic so that alone may account for some antihistamine activity.
  36. Do you think vitamin A supplementation is safe for pregnant women?
  37. It depends on the woman's thyroid and vitamin A status. If any of these is out of whack it could be teratogenic even in smaller doses (<50K IU).
  38. Thank you Haidut for these research links, I just had a feeling that might also be a mechanism to consider.
  39. haidut, can you say a bit more about the cognitive enhancing effects of vitamin A?

    When you have used it, how did it feel, did it feel like a cup of coffee, or more powerful like a dose of progesterone? Is it an energizing effect, and would you avoid taking it by night?

    Have you tried palmitate (apparently it's what Peat uses), or only acetate - were there any differences?
  40. I posted studies showing vitamin A is dopaminergic and this should explain a good portion of its mental effects. Have not tried to compare palmitate and acetate version but they should be pretty similar. Acetate has higher RE activity than palmitate so you could get by on lower doses. A dose of 5,000 IU acetate is equivalent to 8,700 IU palmitate.
  41. I wish I could report anti-histamine benefits from the 30,000 iu I've been taking, though I have been seeing other benefits, I think. I have really been suffering big time though on the histamine front, especially in the last week. I'm thinking maybe it's all the caffeine I am taking.

    Anyway, Is there any reason to believe that higher doses of vit.A can be tolerated over time? As I reported awhile back, 50,000 iu doses gave me hyperthyroid type symptoms. Does it make any sense to gradually try to push my way up again or is there something I can do/take in order to make a higher dose more tolerable?
  42. The only issue of vitamin A that I know of is that taken without sufficient vitamin E it can oxidize and damage cells. I think combined with a decent dose vitamin E (200+ IU) you can take 200,000 IU daily for a long time. There is a drug sold in Europe called Eavit which has 200,000 IU retinol and 200 IU vitamin E per pill and is often taken for up to 12 months without issues. People with liver issues should probably be more careful but even in them it is the oxidation of stored vitamin A in the liver that is the problem. So, taking vitamin E should help them too.
  43. Well, I take a daily dose of Estroban and was also using Progest-e at the time I tried the higher A dose, so I probably was getting pretty close to the 200 iu of E. Do you think it would be worthwhile trying to up the A with more Estroban than Retinil? I'd probably have to rob a bank, but...
  44. I think you are fine with Retinil as a cheaper source of vitamin A and combining it with EstroBan for the vitamin E, and K synergism. No need to spend fortune on multiple EstroBan.
  45. I've been using Retinil topically for several weeks on acne breakouts on my shoulders and back, around 30 drops a day. I've seen noticeable improvements in the location where its applied in terms of healing the lesions, improving the appearance of scar tissue, and complete reduction of keratosis on the triceps area of my arms. I should note that the keratosis reversal was almost overnight while the acne and scarring improvements took around two weeks. It has not completely healed all lesions but is defiantly improved. It hasn't really helped any dandruff on my head but I'm starting to think I have a massive Vitamin A requirement and would have to use a lot more of the product or eat a lot of liver.
  46. That is awesome! Thanks so much for sharing! Did Retinil change any skins spots in the process as well? Like lipofuscin or moles?
  47. Honestly I wasn't really paying attention but the noticeable big moles on my upper back that would have received application do look a lot smaller and are smooth to the touch now. Also last week I started spraying some niacinamide solution I made all over back there which seems helpful so far.
  48. Hello, Haidut. I don't want to be a negative Nelly, but I am having issues with getting drops out of my current bottle. Basically, I have to squeeze the bottle hard which sends out a stream. This, of course, makes it impossible to control/know dosage. Any suggestions? Also, can you clarify what color the liquid is supposed to be. Thanks.
  49. You are having issues with Retinil?!? This is a first report, so I am really sorry to hear this. The liquid is supposed to be whitish/milky color and have a strong taste of alcohol and vitamin A. The vitamin A is a peculiar taste that I cannot describe easily but if you have tasted vitamin A supplement before you would know how it tastes.
    The only suggestion that I have is to use a needle/paperclip to push through the hole. I will send you a free replacement bottle with your next order, so just include a note in the PayPal order form.
    Thanks for reporting this and I apologize for the inconvenience.
  50. Well, I don't know if a freebie is necessary. I'll try the paperclip thing, if not I've got another bottle on standby that I can use and if no problems I can pour this one into that one.

    Yeah, milky white. Just thought I'd double check. It seemed though it was brighter white since I've had the bottle problems, but probably just an optical illusion with it coming out in a stream instead of drop by drop.

    I've been keeping my extra estroban bottles in the fridge, should I be doing the same with extra Retinil bottles? Thanks.
  51. Please do not put the Retinil bottle in the fridge as the cold temps can make the solution precipitate, which it probably did during shipping. Neither Retinil nor EstroBan need to be kept in the fridge if you intend on using them within the next 12 months.
  52. So if the Retinil precipitated would it still be effective? Is there anyway to unprecipitate it? It does seem lately that I am less sensitive to dosing of A. I attributed it to increasing estroban (and thus vitamin E) from 1-2 doses a day to 3, improving perhaps my tolerance for A. Maybe it's just that I haven't been getting nearly as much A as I'd thought lately--since getting into the current bottle?
  53. You can leave it at room temperature for a few hours and then shake the bottle. This should re-solve (pun intended) the problem.
  54. Haidut, just recieved. Was wondering: what is percentage absorbed when applied to the spots you mentioned?
  55. I got always very strong arm muscles after taking Retinol.
    I mostly take 5 drops twice a day topically.
  56. I have found the same
  57. I must mention that I can not do sport for a long time because of CFS, MCS and Fibromyalgia.
    My arm muscles were before Vit A intake as pudding, almost gone and very weak.
  58. I have been taking Retinil topically, a few drops rubbed over my face as a "serum". I don't know if it's my imagination, but my complexion looks better. No breakouts at all and decreased oil production. But not dry either - I don't need any moisturizer.

    This might also be do to progesterone/pregnenolone I am taking also from Idea Labs... but those I'm putting on my body not my face.
  59. Vitamin A powerfully inhibits cortisol synthesis as well as estrogen, and it is cortisol/estrogen that causes the muscle atrophy/weakness.
  60. If I judge by my blood tests, at least 80% from topical administration.
  61. Excellent! Thanks for sharing.
  62. Looking forward to trying your Retinil too thanks @haidut. On that point about absorption, a little off topic but wondering your thoughts on "skin care" products and makeup ... How cautious should people be about using conventional moisturisers, foundation on the face and things like fake tan (used all over the body)? I myself don't use much more than coconut oil, your products and a little makeup ... If absorption through the skin can be 80% or so, should people be really cautious of rubBing just anything into tgeir skin (particularly body)? Is this majorly concerning or only a minor worry? Or just to caution particular ingredients? Love your thoughts
  63. I don't think Retinil is a worry in the recommended doses. The commercial products are packed with ingredients that are not listed on the label and many of them are toxic. That would be a much bigger concern to me than rubbing a little extra Retinil, even though like anything else I would be careful with Retinil as well if I see that it causes effects on the skin that I do not like. There are some reliable tests for vitamin A that could help determine how much (if any) is safe for person to take.
  64. I wasn't meaning should we caution Retinil, just all the other conventional cosmetic products. But now you mention it, what do you rate as being a reliable test for Vit A?
  65. If the calluses on your palms start turning orange then you probably have too much vitamin A.
  66. I saw the recommendation for Vit E, but does anyone have a recommended dose of vitamin D to take with retinol
  67. @EDCMC
    I found this, maybe it is helpful :)

  68. Haidut,

    I have used three drops of Retinil for the last couple of weeks. I have seen an improvement in my psoriasis. However, I was wondering if anyone has had issues with dry lips.

    My lips are cracked all around my mouth. I have been using one drop on the forehead and one on each arm (elbows).

    I know that Retinil creams can cause dry lips and was curious if anyone else has had this experience.

    I don't want to stop taking the Vit A. Many people claim Vit D is the best for dry skin issues like psoriasis. Although sunshine always makes it better, I think a good mix of Vit A and Vit D are important.

  69. I will wait on somebody else to chime in, as this is not a commonly reported side effect. But I concur on the balance of A with the other fat-soluble vitamins. Maybe EstroBan would have been a better supplement for you?? I have heard positive reports on psoriasis support by using EstroBan in 2 daily doses topically.
  70. What's the absorption % topically vs orally? thanks.
  71. Haidut,

    Any concerns about sun sensitivity and Retinil supplement? Haven't seen any precautions or reports on the forum about any problems. Most beauty creams state to apply vitamin A products in evening to avoid potential skin redness. Do you suggest doing the same if using Retinil topically, especially on face? In general, is it ok to use it often on the face, or best to rotate areas of the body? I've been alternating between wrists, inner thighs, and face, but usually add at least 1 drop/day to my face moisturizer. Also experimenting by applying it daily on a scar. Will let you know results, but how long might you suggest I give that?

  72. I have not received any reports on using Retinil and increasing sun sensitivity, but would be interested to hear what the rationale for that is. Unless you are getting the increased sun sensitivity I would keep using as it for now.
  73. I wouldn't use Retinil topically and then expose the area to a lot of sun. Brief exposure on the street is fine, but if you're digging ditches or going to the beach, cover the area up or use a good sunscreen. I plan to use Retinil at my hairline on the back of my neck because of that. I just got it and am in this thread reading up on it before first use, so I don't know about Retinil in particular. But I do know about using Retinol /Vitamin A products topically, and that's just a reasonable precaution.
  74. When taking Retinil orally, is it better to take it on an empty stomach or with (fatty) food?
  75. Thanks, good suggestions on application sites. Most mfg recommendations, and I've seen quite a few vitamin A creams, etc. do caution sun exposure and therefore recommend using such products in evening/bedtime to allow time to absorb.
  76. Hm... I always taught it is a sign of high beta carotene. Then it seems I am of a very strange breed - I have yellow callouses and a dandruff at the same time. I always taught it is a sign of too much beta carotene not converting into Vitamin A.
  77. Is there a mistake in first statement or I just I don't get this?
  78. I have to differ, lol.
  79. What do you think is the answer then?
  80. Vitamin A
  81. You think vitamin A is the answer for dry skin? What would be the reason for me getting more acne and worse skin from vitamin A rather than it actually helping me?
  82. What brand?
  83. Review:
    I don't have any miraculous experience to share.
    I just want to comment that the product is excellent. It is just what I was looking for to have at hand: a simple, high-quality and pure vitamin A.
    The smell is pleasant and I noticed that when I'm (probably) lower on vitamin A, it appears more pleasurable; the opposite also occurs.
  84. Yes, the first statement is incorrect. What I meant to say that 1 IU of retinyl acetate is equivalent to 0.87 IU retinol, and 1 IU retinyl palmitate is equivalent to 0.5 IU retinol. So, retinyl acetate has higher retinol equivalency compared to retinyl palmitate per IU of each chemical.
  85. Thank you! I am not expecting or selling miracles, this review is great - i.e. realistic and reasonable.
  86. Yeah, but it must be nice as a seller to read one of those stories..
  87. Yep, it makes my day actually. Thanks!
  88. I've used both estroban and nutrisorb. Also have eaten liver regularly
  89. :oldman: that's odd mate. For extra stubborn pimples I used to apply Retinil right on the spot.
  90. I've never tried doses over 20'000 IU's. I think my acne could have to do with a messed up gut? The vitamin A definitely doesn't help as well as everyone on here says it should?
  91. I guarantee you it does... eat it with enough fat and try it on your face if it's in ethanol.
  92. Try it on my face? So you're telling me to increase my fat and then supplement more vitamin A? That is the answer?
  93. No I mean if it's in MCT like Nutrisorb or Health Natura you must eat it with lots of fat. It it's in ethanol, I'd still eat it with fat to be sure, but also the ethanol product is awesome for direct application on the pimple. It mimicks a very high intake of vitamin A and also dries the pimple slightly, washes away some sebum to make the skin breathe, and disinfects it.
  94. I do run a low fat diet so maybe I'm not eating enough of it for the A to be working? I have noticed that whenever I drink alcohol like vodka and Coke which is all I ever drink my acne gets slightly better but nothing like my skin used to be pre peating. I wonder if it's an issue that I have messed up my gut lining? I would take an anti biotic to see if it helps but I'm afraid that it'll just mess me up further
  95. @haidut

    Is it safe to take the vitamin A in isolation of the other fat soluble vitamins? Would it be better to dose the A high and then take the other fat solubles to balance it all out?
  96. I think it is safest when combined with the other fat-solubles, especially vitamin E. It can be taken on its own in higher doses but the side effects are much worse when taken on its own. However, human studies did not show actual toxicity even from 200,000 IU taken for 6-12 months.
  97. Retinil makes vitamin D supplementation very easy and smooth without bad mood/irritability. I think vitamin K2 is required with D, maybe vitamin A is required too. That is, for me, D/K2 is less effective than D/K2/A.
  98. Yes, both A and D need each other as A can balance off the hypercalcemic effects of vitamin D. Vitamin K is needed to make sure the calcium that is absorbed thanks to vitamin D goes to the bone and not the soft tissues. It is the vitamin E that should not be taken together with K in large doses but in the small doses found in EstroBan it is OK.
  99. Is this supplement suppose to be in the form of a white milky like substance? I thought it would be the same sort of colour as other vitamin A liquid supplements?