Retinil - Liquid Vitamin A

jaa

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
1,035
Just wanted to say that Retinil is now available in palmitate option as well, and the palmitate option is a higher dose per drop - 5,000 IU per drop vs. the 2,400 IU per drop for the acetate version.

What's the reason for the changeup? Any difference between the two?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
What's the reason for the changeup? Any difference between the two?

I was lobbied by a few forum members for making an oil version of Retinil and an argument has been made that retinyl palmitate is the primary storage form in the organism, despite its much lower retinol equivalency than retinyl acetate. So, I am adding this as an option, it is not replacing the original Retinil. The client will just have to select one of the options when they try to order it.
 

jaa

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
1,035
I was lobbied by a few forum members for making an oil version of Retinil and an argument has been made that retinyl palmitate is the primary storage form in the organism, despite its much lower retinol equivalency than retinyl acetate. So, I am adding this as an option, it is not replacing the original Retinil. The client will just have to select one of the options when they try to order it.

Good to know. Thanks.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Looks neat!
Are the tocopherols here a refined version of your TocoVit? Can you estimate how much per drop?

The tocopherol is the same as the one used for EstroBan. I did not want to polute the supplement with the squalene and lanosterol and other "impurities" found in the TocoVit. The tocopherol is 17% by volume as per the study you sent me on 16.8% giving optimal protection again degradation of the vitamin A. So, if one drop is about 40mg, then 17% of that would be ~7mg of mixed tocopherols per drop.
 

Right in Two

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
17
@haidut, do you have any data comparing the two versions of Retinil and how much of them is absorbed when applied topically? I recall 80% being mentioned earlier in this thread for the original one with alcohol (isn't that a little high?), and about 20% as a general number for fat-soluble vitamins dissolved in fat.

5-10 drops of the alcohol version applied to the neck/upper chest/trapezius each day in combination with 4oz/120g liver two times a week essentially cures my acne, but the bottle is empty in a few weeks so I was wondering if the oil-version would be a better/cheaper alternative. If the topical absorption for both of them is the same, then the oil-version would be the better alternative. However, if the numbers are as outlined over (80% vs 20 %) the original one would obviously still be preferable.
 
Last edited:

EIRE24

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
1,792
Haidut, do you have any data comparing the two versions of Retinil and how much of them is absorbed when applied topically? I recall 80% being mentioned earlier in this thread for the original one with alcohol (isn't that a little high?), and about 20% as a general number for fat-soluble vitamins dissolved in fat.

5-10 drops of the alcohol version applied to the neck/upper chest/trapezius each day in combination with 4oz/120g liver two times a week essentially cures my acne, but the bottle is empty in a few weeks so I was wondering if the oil-version would be a better/cheaper alternative. If the topical absorption for both of them is the same, then the oil-version would be the better alternative. However, if the numbers are as outlined over (80% vs 20 %) the original one would obviously still be preferable.
How much vitamin A is this and I wonder are you at danger of compromising thyroid with this amount of vitamin A. I may give this a try for my acne. What kind of acne do you have?
 

Right in Two

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
17
How much vitamin A is this and I wonder are you at danger of compromising thyroid with this amount of vitamin A. I may give this a try for my acne. What kind of acne do you have?
Assuming an absorption of 80%, that's 19 200 IU from Retinil each day. 120 g of liver amounts to ~93 000 IU (although the absorption is probably not 100%, a textbook I have says 70-90%, but that again depends on the fat content of the meal), so two meals of that over a week gives an average of ~26 000 IU per day. In total ~45 000 IU each day.

In regards to thyroid I do monitor my temperature, which usually hovers around 37-37.1 C/98.6-98.8 F (armpit) and 37.3-37.6 C/99.1-99.7 F (oral). I also eat some fish-head soup every other day (made from turbot), so I think the vitamin A dosage is fine. Although you're probably right in that it might compromise the thyroid (and measuring serum retinol would probably be a good idea), but that will probably depend on each persons context. Chris Masterjohn has also written that he thinks people with lightly colored eyes may have a higher requirement for vitamin A (more blue and UV light is let in), and my eyes have a very light green color. I'm not sure if I can post links yet, but if I can the link to the article is:

https://www.westonaprice.org/our-bl...setting-circadian-rhythm-allowing-good-sleep/

If the link is not showing, the search "Vitamin A Plays an Essential Role in Setting the Circadian Rhythm and Allowing Good Sleep" will direct you to the article.

Oh, almost forgot. I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but I would describe the acne as "stubborn". Not cystic, but more like red bumps that fade away over time. They are strictly localized to the chest and face (forehead and around the mouth). If I do get a deep pimple, applying a drop of Retinil near it results in accumulation of white pus over the next hours/day, and the next day the inflammation is usually gone.
 
Last edited:

Orion

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
858
@haidut Is it possible to have a ATRA supplement, providing the converted downstream all-trans retinoic acid.

I think 100K IU palmitate/acetate roughly converts/equates to 1mg ATRA in a healthy person? Dropper that dispenses 0.1mg or 0.01mg per drop?

Just curious if this is possible to acquire, would be beneficial if people had issues converting retinyl -> retinol -> retinoic acid.

The acne prescription accutane is 13-cis-Retinoic acid, and usually distributed via 5mg to 80mg pills as comparison.

Thanks
 

EIRE24

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
1,792
Assuming an absorption of 80%, that's 19 200 IU from Retinil each day. 120 g of liver amounts to ~93 000 IU (although the absorption is probably not 100%, a textbook I have says 70-90%, but that again depends on the fat content of the meal), so two meals of that over a week gives an average of ~26 000 IU per day. In total ~45 000 IU each day.

In regards to thyroid I do monitor my temperature, which usually hovers around 37-37.1 C/98.6-98.8 F (armpit) and 37.3-37.6 C/99.1-99.7 F (oral). I also eat some fish-head soup every other day (made from turbot), so I think the vitamin A dosage is fine. Although you're probably right in that it might compromise the thyroid (and measuring serum retinol would probably be a good idea), but that will probably depend on each persons context. Chris Masterjohn has also written that he thinks people with lightly colored eyes may have a higher requirement for vitamin A (more blue and UV light is let in), and my eyes have a very light green color. I'm not sure if I can post links yet, but if I can the link to the article is:

https://www.westonaprice.org/our-bl...setting-circadian-rhythm-allowing-good-sleep/

If the link is not showing, the search "Vitamin A Plays an Essential Role in Setting the Circadian Rhythm and Allowing Good Sleep" will direct you to the article.

Oh, almost forgot. I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but I would describe the acne as "stubborn". Not cystic, but more like red bumps that fade away over time. They are strictly localized to the chest and face (forehead and around the mouth). If I do get a deep pimple, applying a drop of Retinil near it results in accumulation of white pus over the next hours/day, and the next day the inflammation is usually gone.
Wow, I wish this worked for my acne. I actually enjoy eating liver but the vitamin a supplements never did a thing for me unfortunately.

I've read that Chris master john study beforehand it's very good.

I may try to apply the vitamin A topically to the pimples and see what happens like you do. My acne is also the stubborn kind
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
@haidut Is it possible to have a ATRA supplement, providing the converted downstream all-trans retinoic acid.

I think 100K IU palmitate/acetate roughly converts/equates to 1mg ATRA in a healthy person? Dropper that dispenses 0.1mg or 0.01mg per drop?

Just curious if this is possible to acquire, would be beneficial if people had issues converting retinyl -> retinol -> retinoic acid.

The acne prescription accutane is 13-cis-Retinoic acid, and usually distributed via 5mg to 80mg pills as comparison.

Thanks

It's possible to obtain and sell it but it is not very stable in solution. Also, despite the claims that only the retinoic acid types are "active" there is evidence that retinol also has RAR activity. Similar to the claims about vitamin D3 and calcitriol.
Also, unlike retinol, the retinoci acid derivatives are teratogenic so it requires special warnings on the label approved by the FDA. That last part will not be easy to get as it requires filing and application and proving safety in doses used in the specific supplements.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
Yes, both A and D need each other as A can balance off the hypercalcemic effects of vitamin D. Vitamin K is needed to make sure the calcium that is absorbed thanks to vitamin D goes to the bone and not the soft tissues. It is the vitamin E that should not be taken together with K in large doses but in the small doses found in EstroBan it is OK.

I didn't know you couldn't take K and E together. What is considered a large dose?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
I didn't know you couldn't take K and E together. What is considered a large dose?

I would say anything more than 200 IU vitamin E per dose and 5mg vitamin K per dose. But since both vitamins exists together in liver and are often consumed that way to no ill effect it could be more nuanced that just direct antagonism. Maybe the form of the chemical matters (tocopherol ester vs tocopherol) and the type of vitamin K (K1 vs K2). But I would still not take more than 200 IU vitamin E per dose.
 

Makaveli

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
87
Combined with progesterone, Retinil has significantly decreased the oil on my face after using it in the morning and at bedtime
 

Orion

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
858
Combined with progesterone, Retinil has significantly decreased the oil on my face after using it in the morning and at bedtime

Are they taken orally or topically, and what dose of each? Thanks
 

Makaveli

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
87
@Orion
I take 3-4 drops of progesterone on lips/gums and about 5 drops Retinil orally. I take both in the morning and at bedtime.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom