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Rethinking Magnesium: Why You're Deficient And Need To Supplement

Discussion in 'Minerals' started by KalosKaiAgathos, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. KalosKaiAgathos

    KalosKaiAgathos Member

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    Hey Peatarians! I've got a confession to make: I disagree big time with Ray Peat's opinion on magnesium.

    I must admit, however, that Ray has been somewhat influential to me with his calcium to phosphorus ratio. However, I think that magnesium and calcium should also be ROUGHLY in a 1:1 balance as well.

    Why?

    One reason is because I think there's evidence that traditional cultures had a 1:1 calcium : magnesium balance in their diets as well. Another reason is that lots of people seem to do better on higher magnesium intakes.

    From reading Peat, I notice that he does not recommend a 1:1 ratio between magnesium and calcium intake. That's where my blog post comes in:

    I tell you why I consider almost everyone magnesium deficient! If you're not taking the right magnesium supplements, you're probably deficient too...

    I'm not fear mongering though. My message is optimistic: you can improve your health for pennies a day!

    Learn:

    - how it's almost impossible to get sufficient magnesium through food alone
    - why our modern lifestyle predisposes you for magnesium deficiency
    - the many simple magnesium deficiency signs in existence
    - why 60% of people have a severe magnesium deficiency, and 80-90% of people have sub-optimal magnesium levels
    - the massive health benefits magnesium can bring
    - that not all magnesium supplements are great, and which supplements you should take for the best absorption
    - about the best magnesium lab tests
    - why magnesium helps you prevent diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's disease, osteoporosis, and other diseases
    - that the correct magnesium supplements don't need to be expensive

    And much, much more.

    And please let me know what you think as Peat advocates!

    Link: Rethinking Magnesium: Why You're Deficient And Need To Supplement
     
  2. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Magnesium is great, too bad most supplement companies ruin it by producing low-quality products with crappy additives.
    I've tried many different magnesium supplements, each felt different. Most produced stomach and intestinal irritation.
    If you find one that agrees with you it does have many benefits. It can cure depression and constipation for example. It also improves concentration and focus and calms the brain down by lowering glutamate.
     
  3. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    Magnesium glycinate, period.
     
  4. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    That's one of the better ones to take. Ray also recommends that one. Still, there are quality differences between different products. Not every magnesium glycinate supplement is going to work well.
     
  5. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    what about magnesium phosphate

    i wonder how the phosphorous content would compare to foods, maybe its too much
     
  6. benaoao

    benaoao Member

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    I get up to 800-900mg from food+mineral water+transdermal with approx 1.5g of Calcium and phosphorus. Imo good enough ratios. Unsurprisingly doubled my blood vitamin D levels which is imo the single best way to gauge a magnesium deficiency assuming calcium and phosphorus are balanced. That or PTH.

    Would you still recommend mag glycinate? Never against some added glycine tbh
     
  7. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Plain Mg-Carbonate is the best. You can overdo on Glycine intake and it gets harmful. Carbonate on the other hand provides co2 and bicarbonate
     
  8. OP
    KalosKaiAgathos

    KalosKaiAgathos Member

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    Thanks for this tip. Double checked my recommendation, and I've changed them. Some magnesium glycinate I recommended had crappy additives in them.

    If you're doing well, then there's no problem. If you've got transdermal mag anyway, you can experiment with more, to see whether you gain even more improvements.

    Contrary to what some people think, some cites I've included do show that mag oil works transdermally. There's even a guy who wrote his PhD thesis on that subject. BUT people who want 4-5 triple blind RCT's while discounting thousands of n=1 reports will have to wait for the definitive evidence.

    Will include this magnesium-form in a new version next year. Will also see if I can find any specific research on this type! Thanks!
     
  9. anqele

    anqele Member

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    I find magnesium taurate calming. Depending on sleeping needs I exchange the magnesium taurate for a melatonin magnesium combo at night.
     
  10. Elize

    Elize Member

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    Angeles which mag/ melatonin product do you use?

    Thanks
    Elize
     
  11. Elize

    Elize Member

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  12. anqele

    anqele Member

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    Hi Elise,

    It’s webber naturals and the bottle says ‘sleep support’ in red on the top.
    3/150 mg
    Fall Asleep, Stay Asleep
    Healthy Muscle Function
    100 tablets
     
  13. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    what evidence from traditional cultures show a 1:1 calcium to magnesium ratio? why would a traditional culture's food consumption mean it is healthy?
     
  14. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    You have magnesium hydroxide listed as bad which I found surprising. It has been recommended here as on of the best forms, when mixed with carbonated water, to make magnesium bicarbonate. Is it just that magnesium hydroxide by itself is bad, but when mixed with carbonated water becomes one of the best forms? Or is not even worth it?
     
  15. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Your post could have been mine.

    I agree 100% with it.

    But i would add that, to my knowledge, Peat has never stated as fact the catastrophic, widespread magnesium deficiency in the populations, and therefore has never specifically advised to use magnesium supplements to remedy this deficiency.

    Which i find baffling.
     
  16. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    The reference list is epic.
    'Its Biological Significance' book series is quite interesting. It's cool that you consulted it as well.


    I suspect a reasonable ratio of calcium to magnesium is 2:1 for higher calcium intakes and something like 5:3 for lower intakes. A ratio of 1:1 is therapeutic but unnecessary for people without weakened metabolisms.

    Intestinal absorption of magnesium from food and supplements.
    Magnesium absorption is steep until about 120 mg at a time, beyond that it starts to level. It doesn't stop there at all, it's similar to vit C: you keep pushing, you keep absorbing; but the fact that there's a clear decline in the rate must point that we're better adapted to amounts up to more or less 120 mg in a meal. Suchzord suggested people to spread doses throughout the day, and I think he's right.


    Magnesium sulfate is the main form used in emergency as far as I know. I don't want to play the knowledgeable here because I'm not, it's just that I always read about it being favored instead of chloride. The other forms are more expensive, so this might be one of the ressons why these are more popular.

    These two forms are trash because both provide too much of what doesn't interest you to get a little of what does. The body will need to get rid of them somehow at a cost. I won't go over this again in details, I'll just add that these two will acidify the body in unnecessary and avoidable ways, and magnesium is flushed out when bicarbonate production is impaired, which isn't uncommon. Magnesium chloride's taste is a good indicator of how great it is, especially in large doses.

    Magnesium bicarbonate is probably the best. But it forces the people to consume liquid to get magnesium.

    Magnesium carbonate is more difficult to be digested and might shift the state of the person in unwanted ways.

    Most forms deserve preloading with a bicarbonate salt. It can make a big difference. Supplementing during or after exercise is also useful.

    When magnesium is complexed with organic acids, the acid might enhance the absorption of impurities some of the hows while being digested.


    If you think he doesn't acknowledge its importance, you probably have missed this from an inter of the views:

    "[..]Magnesium is the most famous because of magnesium deficiency, they found it caused a terrific range of inflammatory diseases in animals and they would cure skin diseases, heart disease, nerve disease, liver disease and so on just by correcting a magnesium deficiency."​

    I don't think he spends much time dealing with magnesium deficiency with his clients because he seems to go straight to thyroid as a short of the cuts as a simplified way to deal with various problems.

    A major cause of deficiency isn't insufficient intake. A lot of people these days supplement it yet still can't use it. If it is, some supplementation will suffice surprisingly fast.

    Have you tried to avoid artificial lights at night altogether for a couple of days? You'll notice that there isn't much to do other than relax and rest. Are the stressors that need to be corrected.


    Less than 2% of the population in Usanda consumes more than 4700 mg of potassium a day. I think the average is 3500 mg. The other countries are not important. If you consider that 1000 mg of calcium is a reasonabke intake, then suggesting a Ca:Mg of 1 will lead you to a very unusual ratio of potassium to magnesium. A diet rich in potassium will naturally provide enough magnesium, I only realized this after gurus pointed it out to me.
     
  17. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

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  18. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  19. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    I can share a few magnesium anecdotes. It has been a challenge for me. A few years ago it caused an unbearable adrenal nightmare at just a 400mg dose - it went on for 4 months until I force fed and recovered (this killed my liver but the depression was better than the adrenal state). I was genuinely thinking about suicide before the end of that - it was completely and utterly relentlessly unbearable. I won’t go into too much detail as it’d be long!

    Anyway, the long and short is that I couldn’t tolerate magnesium because I was depleted in nearly every sense, but namely very sodium and vitamin D depleted. I was sodium depleted because I wasn’t ever getting morning light and therefore my cortisol and aldosterone production were completely forked. Add overtraining to this and it explains the crash. Also add a high potassium low sodium diet...

    I only recently discovered the morning light thing. I thought it was all vitamin D related beforehand, but realised you need very little vitamin D to tolerate magnesium (but you do need some). I don’t believe in the concept of adrenal fatigue - you just have severe calorie depletion and light deficiency due to poor metabolic health. The goal is to find a path to tolerating and enjoying more calories!

    I digress; more on magnesium!

    I find it always best to take with an acidic medium. I sometimes crush mag glycinate pills and drink them with orange juice or grapefruit. With magnesium chloride I squeeze the juice of a lemon into a 1.5 to 2L bottle of water and fill with water and the mag chloride dose. These methods pretty much remove the stomach discomfort aspect. As Amazoniac referred to above, you’ll likely want to balanced the chloride with (sodium) bicarbonate, though this can hinder the acidity so maybe only a quarter tsp, to taste. The bottle method is useful as it spaces your magnesium throughout the day which is pretty ideal for optimal uptake. Without the acidic medium mag chloride can cause a mega stomach ache. Getting enough mag from foods as you recover should be key so you can phase out supplements, but they can be handy for convenience when you can’t prep mag rich foods.

    TLDR, I could not tolerate magnesium for years and now I can.
     
  20. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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