Resting BPM Always <35, How To Fix?

[JustAGuy]

If you are running yourself down eating a restrictive diet and overexercising, one of the areas that can be taking damage before you are aware of it is the myelin sheathing on nerves. These are made of fats. Tests on heart etc may show up fine, even while this is beginning to happening. They take a while to recover, and benefit from dietary fats.

I'm not saying this is definitely happening to you. Just that it is one of the risks of pushing energy deficit, overexercise, insufficient recovery time, etc, and that it might not show up until damage has progressed more than is good.

I feel like it is mostly the intense exercise doing a lot of harm. If I don’t do any intense exercise but walk 5 hours per day I don’t feel worse at all, the more intense the exercise the worse it feels.

What kind of fats benefit the myelin sheets, and do you have any suggestion on how to help them recover?

 

[tara]

I feel like it is mostly the intense exercise doing a lot of harm. If I don’t do any intense exercise but walk 5 hours per day I don’t feel worse at all, the more intense the exercise the worse it feels.

Good idea to stop doing the very intense exercise.
Your extreme bradycardia looks like an indicator of low base metabolism. If you want this to recover, I doubt walking five hours a day is going to give you your best shot at it in the short term. It's hard to know exactly how much you'll need to pull back until you reverse the trend.

What kind of fats benefit the myelin sheets, and do you have any suggestion on how to help them recover?

I'm not enough of an expert to say. I know chronic undereating and overexcercise are risks and that fats are needed to repair. Your very low heart rate makes me suspect that your body may be deferring some repair and maintenance because it is under too much stress.

I know Peat (and others) have cautioned against PUFAs for some reasons I find convincing. I figure that leaves the fats in dairy if it agrees with you, ruminants, coconuts, cocoa butter, etc. Not sure which are best for myelin specifically. I'm putting a plug in for not being too restrictive and including some fats when you are trying to restore your metabolism. Not necessarily to go overboard on anything in particular.

My hunch is that a general strategy that would probably be helpful for nurturing your base metabolic rate would be likely to give your body the best chance at repairing anything that has suffered from energy deficit and overstress.

That strategy being one that includes: ensuring enough nutrition, enough rest and sleep, and meeting other needs, eg sunlight, etc, maybe some other tactics.
It does not include: excessively restrictive dieting, intense stressful exercise, lots of endurance exercise, hanging out in a gym too much instead of out in the sunlight.

(Attempts to raise metabolic rate more directly with supplements, rather than primarily by nutrition, rest, etc, could risk worsening the situation. If your body has deliberately lowered your metabolic rate to protect you from excessive catabolism caused by excessive stress and energy deficit, I would be concerned about any attempt to circumvent that artificially. There might be exceptions to this, but I'm not aware of any evidence of this being the case yet. Doctor/lab tests might expose or rule out some of those, but I'm not an expert.)

How can you be hypothyroid without actual hypothyroid symptoms, how does that work? I think Peat would be the first to say actual symptoms are a better indicator of thyroid function than lab numbers.

And i doubt there are "no other signs" either.

OP talks of having much more energy when he has a rest from the extreme exercise.
3000 calories, 24 yrs, reasonably intense programme of weightlifting. Can't remember how big he is, but that looks as though the calorie intake could be on the low side, so if he's maintaining on that, I'd say it could be another indicator of lowish metabolism.
I think Peat has said clinical signs and symptoms should be taken into account, not just lab results. Heart rate, body temps, and various other signs. OP hasn't reportded on the full list of possible hypothyroid symptoms, but there are indications on some of them.
There can be a bit of harm before serious damage is obvious in a young man, given one would expect some reserve.

Since both cortisol and adrenaline are known to elevate heart rate, how could a low resting heart rate indicate elevated stress hormones? If anything it indicates a strong parasympathetic dominance.

In the short term. In the longer term, I think they promote adaptations for survival, which can include reducing base metabolic rate.

It could be the case if the OP has severely suppressed thyroid function due to stress, but then he would also have symptoms of low thyroid such as chronically cold extremities.

Body temps depend heavily upon my fluid intake, I don't have a measuring device currently. I notice I get cold toes upon waking it if I overdid it in the gym the day before though (used too much adrenaline).

There are symptoms related to temp regulation and cold extremities.

A thermometer would be a modest investment.

 

[nwo2012]

Good idea to stop doing the very intense exercise.
Your extreme bradycardia looks like an indicator of low base metabolism. If you want this to recover, I doubt walking five hours a day is going to give you your best shot at it in the short term. It's hard to know exactly how much you'll need to pull back until you reverse the trend.


I'm not enough of an expert to say. I know chronic undereating and overexcercise are risks and that fats are needed to repair. Your very low heart rate makes me suspect that your body may be deferring some repair and maintenance because it is under too much stress.

I know Peat (and others) have cautioned against PUFAs for some reasons I find convincing. I figure that leaves the fats in dairy if it agrees with you, ruminants, coconuts, cocoa butter, etc. Not sure which are best for myelin specifically. I'm putting a plug in for not being too restrictive and including some fats when you are trying to restore your metabolism. Not necessarily to go overboard on anything in particular.

My hunch is that a general strategy that would probably be helpful for nurturing your base metabolic rate would be likely to give your body the best chance at repairing anything that has suffered from energy deficit and overstress.

That strategy being one that includes: ensuring enough nutrition, enough rest and sleep, and meeting other needs, eg sunlight, etc, maybe some other tactics.
It does not include: excessively restrictive dieting, intense stressful exercise, lots of endurance exercise, hanging out in a gym too much instead of out in the sunlight.

(Attempts to raise metabolic rate more directly with supplements, rather than primarily by nutrition, rest, etc, could risk worsening the situation. If your body has deliberately lowered your metabolic rate to protect you from excessive catabolism caused by excessive stress and energy deficit, I would be concerned about any attempt to circumvent that artificially. There might be exceptions to this, but I'm not aware of any evidence of this being the case yet. Doctor/lab tests might expose or rule out some of those, but I'm not an expert.)



OP talks of having much more energy when he has a rest from the extreme exercise.
3000 calories, 24 yrs, reasonably intense programme of weightlifting. Can't remember how big he is, but that looks as though the calorie intake could be on the low side, so if he's maintaining on that, I'd say it could be another indicator of lowish metabolism.
I think Peat has said clinical signs and symptoms should be taken into account, not just lab results. Heart rate, body temps, and various other signs. OP hasn't reportded on the full list of possible hypothyroid symptoms, but there are indications on some of them.
There can be a bit of harm before serious damage is obvious in a young man, given one would expect some reserve.


In the short term. In the longer term, I think they promote adaptations for survival, which can include reducing base metabolic rate.


There are symptoms related to temp regulation and cold extremities.

A thermometer would be a modest investment.

Good post

 

[Dr. C]

You should get an ECG done to rule out that you may be suffering from severe conditions like long-QT syndrom or higher grade AV blockage

 

[JustAGuy]

You should get an ECG done to rule out that you may be suffering from severe conditions like long-QT syndrom or higher grade AV blockage

I actually had an ecg and echocardiogram done like 1 year ago, they said everything looks very good.

 

[Jon]

Are you writing this from the other side?

Lmao Adele jokes.

 

[Jon]

@JustAGuy im surprised no ones asked yet but what's your waking temp and 45min post breakfast temp?

You said once before on another thread that you like to intermittently fast, do you still do this?

In my experience it's possible to have high cortisol, low adrenaline which will show up as a lower body temp. If you get euphoria and feel out going and talkative from 1 cup of coffee with food then it's safe to say you're high on cortisol. If you feel nervous and anxious after a cup of coffee, adrenaline is spiking. Imo adrenaline is the easier fix of the two, as cortisol seems to mean your stress levels have been chronically high for awhile. Mental apathy is another good sign you have high circulating cortisol. Easy agitation is a sign of high adrenaline.

 

[JustAGuy]

@JustAGuy im surprised no ones asked yet but what's your waking temp and 45min post breakfast temp?

You said once before on another thread that you like to intermittently fast, do you still do this?

In my experience it's possible to have high cortisol, low adrenaline which will show up as a lower body temp. If you get euphoria and feel out going and talkative from 1 cup of coffee with food then it's safe to say you're high on cortisol. If you feel nervous and anxious after a cup of coffee, adrenaline is spiking. Imo adrenaline is the easier fix of the two, as cortisol seems to mean your stress levels have been chronically high for awhile. Mental apathy is another good sign you have high circulating cortisol. Easy agitation is a sign of high adrenaline.

Hello Jon,

I still follow IF on like 80% of the days yes.
I will go out tomorrow to look for a thermometer, my temps can be heavily influenced by my fluid intake, so I guess I will just measure them based on what I do average. Can I measure my temp below my tongue?

From caffeine/food I don't get that euphoria, I don't really notice a lot from it. Though I am prone to get a bit shaky/low blood sugar/adrenaline~ish when I use caffeine and start exercising. Like my body is very quickly in releasing adrenalin, I think this is from genetics and taking ice cold baths every morning for years (don't do this anymore currently, I used to when I was in high school). I have to stay calm during exercise, I can very easily go "too hard", I could literally release a massive amount of adrenaline internally and workout vigorously for 5 hours non-stop without a problem, just when I do this I will crash the next day and have bad sleep. In the moment I feel good then from the adrenaline, so I always pace myself to stop way before I feel tired and don't train nearly as explosively as my body is able to.

I might have mental apathy, I don't know. Easy agitation I don't have for sure. Nothing really bothers me, so I don't know if that is mental apathy? It feels more like I have seen everything like 1000 times over already, like in my mind I feel 5000 years old sometimes (not because of energy, just because everything seems repetitive and the same to me).

 

[Jon]

Hello Jon,

I still follow IF on like 80% of the days yes.
I will go out tomorrow to look for a thermometer, my temps can be heavily influenced by my fluid intake, so I guess I will just measure them based on what I do average. Can I measure my temp below my tongue?

From caffeine/food I don't get that euphoria, I don't really notice a lot from it. Though I am prone to get a bit shaky/low blood sugar/adrenaline~ish when I use caffeine and start exercising. Like my body is very quickly in releasing adrenalin, I think this is from genetics and taking ice cold baths every morning for years (don't do this anymore currently, I used to when I was in high school). I have to stay calm during exercise, I can very easily go "too hard", I could literally release a massive amount of adrenaline internally and workout vigorously for 5 hours non-stop without a problem, just when I do this I will crash the next day and have bad sleep. In the moment I feel good then from the adrenaline, so I always pace myself to stop way before I feel tired and don't train nearly as explosively as my body is able to.

I might have mental apathy, I don't know. Easy agitation I don't have for sure. Nothing really bothers me, so I don't know if that is mental apathy? It feels more like I have seen everything like 1000 times over already, like in my mind I feel 5000 years old sometimes (not because of energy, just because everything seems repetitive and the same to me).

Imo your fasting, along with your no care attitude and a lack of enthusiasm for things tells me you're running high in cortisol.

Yes, under the toungue is best I think. You need to warm the thermometer to you body temp before you take your temperature though because if you don't you can get odd readings. Just leave the thermometer in your mouth or under your arm for awhile (5-10mins) and then take your temp via oral reading.

I think you should eat more regularly throughout the day, maybe cut your workouts down a bit.

 

[Jon]

@JustAGuy ya know man another option for you is a three week hiatus from training all together. You shouldn't lose any muscle really, and it will give you some time to really just focus on rest and recovery. Your gym performance may fall about 3% in that time but you may just come out healthier and happier than ever.

 

[JustAGuy]

Managed to get a thermometer.
11pm currently and haven’t eaten for 5 hours, 1800 kcal only so far today. Cooking a big meal now.
Temp is 36.8/36.9 celsius, hr just checked is 33. I just walked for like 1 hour aswell since I went to the store.
I feel like I am hotter in the evening vs the morning though.

 

[JustAGuy]

Just ate the meal 10 minutes ago, temp is now 37.4 celsius. Hr went to 37 now after eating.

I am wondering though how relevant temperatures are for health, I can very easily steer my temperature by taking in more or less liquids. I am pretty sure I can drop my temp by 2 degrees if I just start drinking a lot of water and eating tons of protein/fats. Especially water really lowers my temp. Protein/fats just drop my blood sugar tremendously.

 

[Jon]

Just ate the meal 10 minutes ago, temp is now 37.4 celsius. Hr went to 37 now after eating.

I am wondering though how relevant temperatures are for health, I can very easily steer my temperature by taking in more or less liquids. I am pretty sure I can drop my temp by 2 degrees if I just start drinking a lot of water and eating tons of protein/fats. Especially water really lowers my temp. Protein/fats just drop my blood sugar tremendously.

What was your temp upon waking? This is a very important reading.

The good news right now is that your temps are going up after meals and your heart rate is raising so something with metabolism wants to work properly. What will be very telling is what happens with temp upon waking and what happens after breakfast. These two are important temps.

Cold or hot fluids can trend temps up or down but you shouldn't really be drinking so much of either fluid to trend you drastically enough to skew your average results, if you are drinking this much cold fluid it's harming your digestion by cooling the temperature of your stomach and small intestine thus disabling enzymatic function of the stomach and pancreas to some degree. If protein and fats lower your temp then that's probably a good sign they're interfering with glucose oxidation and should be kept to a minimum (0.8g of protein per 2.2kg of lean mass and 0.3g of fat per 2.2kg of lean mass).

 

[Jon]

Also drinking too much fluid can dilute stomach acid and interfere with digestion.

 

[JustAGuy]

What was your temp upon waking? This is a very important reading.

The good news right now is that your temps are going up after meals and your heart rate is raising so something with metabolism wants to work properly. What will be very telling is what happens with temp upon waking and what happens after breakfast. These two are important temps.

Cold or hot fluids can trend temps up or down but you shouldn't really be drinking so much of either fluid to trend you drastically enough to skew your average results, if you are drinking this much cold fluid it's harming your digestion by cooling the temperature of your stomach and small intestine thus disabling enzymatic function of the stomach and pancreas to some degree. If protein and fats lower your temp then that's probably a good sign they're interfering with glucose oxidation and should be kept to a minimum (0.8g of protein per 2.2kg of lean mass and 0.3g of fat per 2.2kg of lean mass).

Just checked waking temp, 36.0 celsius, had only like 4 hours of sleep though and beneath an air conditioner with a thin blanket.
Are you sure 0.8g protein per 2.2kg lbm is enough? That would be only like 30g protein daily, I am currently getting 70g protein daily because I am afraid to drop it lower. I am looking for an essential amino acid product to replace some of my protein intake aswell, I feel like I digest protein very poorly.

Thank you for your replies btw!!

 

[JustAGuy]

10 min after breakfast, hr 31, temperature 36.3.

 

[Jon]

Just checked waking temp, 36.0 celsius, had only like 4 hours of sleep though and beneath an air conditioner with a thin blanket.
Are you sure 0.8g protein per 2.2kg lbm is enough? That would be only like 30g protein daily, I am currently getting 70g protein daily because I am afraid to drop it lower. I am looking for an essential amino acid product to replace some of my protein intake aswell, I feel like I digest protein very poorly.

Thank you for your replies btw!!

Ahh I'm sorry man, I'm an idiot lol it would be 1.76g/kg of lean mass

Well it's a very good sign your temps are so high! At this point I'm wondering if you really are just over trained a bit? And if there could be some other reason you're not feeling good?

What makes you think protein doesn't digest well?

And hey no prob :) were all here to help each other right?

 

[tara]

11pm currently and haven’t eaten for 5 hours, 1800 kcal only so far today. Cooking a big meal now.

Managed to get a thermometer.
11pm currently and haven’t eaten for 5 hours, 1800 kcal only so far today. Cooking a big meal now.
Temp is 36.8/36.9 celsius, hr just checked is 33. I just walked for like 1 hour aswell since I went to the store.
I feel like I am hotter in the evening vs the morning though.

I strongly recommend you eat your main meal during the day time.

Consider drawing up a chart and tracking resting HR and temps for a few days, eg at least: waking, 1/2 hour or so after breakfast, early afternoon (eg an hour or so after lunch)? Be aware thermometer can take at least 5 mins to come up to stable temp.

Are you sure 0.8g protein per 2.2kg lbm is enough? That would be only like 30g protein daily, I am currently getting 70g protein daily because I am afraid to drop it lower.

I'm not sure that less than 70g is a good idea long term, especially if you are continuing any training. My guess is you've got a bit of repair and rebuild to do.

 

[JustAGuy]

Ahh I'm sorry man, I'm an idiot lol it would be 1.76g/kg of lean mass

Well it's a very good sign your temps are so high! At this point I'm wondering if you really are just over trained a bit? And if there could be some other reason you're not feeling good?

What makes you think protein doesn't digest well?

And hey no prob :) were all here to help each other right?

:)

I think I overtrained my cns in the past, but right now I make sure to not put too much pressure on it by avoiding free weights and focusing on higher rep ranges. Doing a 5 day split vs 3x full body made a massive difference in being less cns taxing aswell.

I feel so bad when I eat more protein. No way I can come close to 1.7g/kg. I can’t get over 1g/kg even without feeling way worse. I get headache, adrenaline feeling, bad mood, chest pressure, brain fog and nightmares when I eat more protein. Also get a white coating on my tongue. I have tried all protein sources. I get same from oats, lentils, wheat, beef, chicken, milk, egg, whey, it doesn’t matter.

 

[Jon]

:)

I think I overtrained my cns in the past, but right now I make sure to not put too much pressure on it by avoiding free weights and focusing on higher rep ranges. Doing a 5 day split vs 3x full body made a massive difference in being less cns taxing aswell.

I feel so bad when I eat more protein. No way I can come close to 1.7g/kg. I can’t get over 1g/kg even without feeling way worse. I get headache, adrenaline feeling, bad mood, chest pressure, brain fog and nightmares when I eat more protein. Also get a white coating on my tongue. I have tried all protein sources. I get same from oats, lentils, wheat, beef, chicken, milk, egg, whey, it doesn’t matter.

5 days is ALOT man. I don't even train that much.

From the combination of your white film in your tongue and you saying you feel your cns is easily taxed...in wondering if you're having some sort of immune system challenge. Have you ever had mono?