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Resistant Starch - Is It Really Bad? (non-Peat)

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Nov 21, 2015
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Ray seems to believe in the benefits of a sterile gut.

And there are a lot of folks experimenting here with antibiotics, it seems.

But what about the fact that it seems impossible to live that way. And the superbugs issue?

I'm thinking of experimenting a bit with resistant starch.

Have you used it? Are you using it now?
 

Zachs

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I don't see anything wrong with eating some cold potatoes or rice but please don't start eating super green bananas or just chugging down a bunch of potato starch.

I have never been on board with the sterile gut train of thought, at least not completely sterile all the way through. The small intestine, yes but I feel like the colon produces a number of beneficial byproducts from bacteria, namely saturated fat and some vitamins. Giving them something to eat seems like a good idea to me.
 

Nicholas

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Apr 25, 2015
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physiologically, the sterile gut theory can be legitimately questioned by the **essential** vitamin K2 which is produced in the small intestine....not to mention other possible bacterial functions that we are not aware of. Peat's recommendations to take K2 on antibiotics and even on carrots says enough. I am totally open to understanding the valid conclusions of the sterile gut theory just as those who believe the sterile gut theory to be law have to be open to understanding the valid conclusions of bacteria necessity in the small intenstine and maybe elsewhere.
 
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Do superbugs eat magic and fairy dust?
 

ecstatichamster

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I am going to experiement a bit with RS at some point soon.

I think the idea of fighting this thing (the gut biome) isn't a sensible strategy. I think we have to make friends with it.
 

Tarmander

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I think Peat gets a little misunderstood sometimes on the whole sterile gut thing. Yes there are studies showing improved metabolism from a sterile gut. He has also said that someone with a higher metabolism will naturally have a more sterile gut.

I have been experimenting with higher doses of caffeine lately and one thing I have noticed, which should not really be a surprise, is a more voracious appetite, and stronger digestion power. I eat food and my stomach just gobbles it up. You could attribute this to more stomach acid, I am not really sure, but I have noticed that food just does not sit in there as long as it used to. I think when your metabolism improves, you just digest food better and extract the nutrients more efficiently. Which leaves less food for the buggos, which would naturally lead to a more sterile gut. People with slower metabolisms just do not extract nutrients as efficiently. Food tends to just sit in there and ferment which makes the gut...well less sterile.

So do not get the horse before the cart or whatever. Sometimes antibiotics can help if you need some bigger guns against the nasty critters, but the feeling I have always gotten from Peat is that this is a concurrent strategy, not a main one. If you do not improve that digestion power alongside those antibiotics, the tiny munchers just come back in your next meal.

Oh and I also tried straight RS one time in the form of Potato Starch. It gave me lots of energy, I lost weight, and I felt like absolute crap and got sick.
 

tomisonbottom

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Apr 17, 2013
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Oh and I also tried straight RS one time in the form of Potato Starch. It gave me lots of energy, I lost weight, and I felt like absolute crap and got sick.

This is very interesting. Usually energy is a good thing, but you're saying it made you sick. So was it a cortisol adrenaline type of energy then?
Or are you saying it was great at first, but then ended up badly?
 

Tarmander

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This is very interesting. Usually energy is a good thing, but you're saying it made you sick. So was it a cortisol adrenaline type of energy then?
Or are you saying it was great at first, but then ended up badly?

If i remember right it was not the good kind of feeling energy...like strung out and eyes a little too wide. It has been awhile. There was no good period followed by a bad period.
 

Regina

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Ray seems to believe in the benefits of a sterile gut.

And there are a lot of folks experimenting here with antibiotics, it seems.

But what about the fact that it seems impossible to live that way. And the superbugs issue?

I'm thinking of experimenting a bit with resistant starch.

Have you used it? Are you using it now?
I have had exactly 1 UTI in my entire life. I tried bob mills modified potato starch because, well, it was the talk of the town. I also added Heather's acacia tummy fibers to a daily smoothie. I was doing (apparently) fine on the Perfect Health Diet (no PUFA, safe starches) but wanted to biohack even betterer my microbiome. :wacky:
Not long after (a few weeks maybe), I ended up in an ER in Florida with a UTI. Macrobid abx cleared it up. I stopped the RS immediately and have had no further issue. (that was maybe 2 or 3 yrs ago). Anyway, quite a coincidence. I can't say positively that RS caused it but ....
 

Tarmander

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@Tarmander At what amount of caffeine did you notice the digestion effects?
Uhh I can't remember exactly, I think I had just started coffee and I was doing like 32oz of coffee and a 200mg caffeine pill per day. I do about 24oz a day now. I started off really high and pulled back overtime
 

raypeatclips

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Uhh I can't remember exactly, I think I had just started coffee and I was doing like 32oz of coffee and a 200mg caffeine pill per day. I do about 24oz a day now. I started off really high and pulled back overtime

Thanks, Google says 36oz is around 400mg caffeine (plus another200mg caffeine tablets)) and 24oz around 270mg, does that sound about right? That is surprisingly lower than I expected you to say but maybe my view of reasonable amounts of caffeine are skewed.
 

Tarmander

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Thanks, Google says 36oz is around 400mg caffeine (plus another200mg caffeine tablets)) and 24oz around 270mg, does that sound about right? That is surprisingly lower than I expected you to say but maybe my view of reasonable amounts of caffeine are skewed.

That seems a little high, I think I may have gotten up to 600mg one day but couldn't tolerate it and went back down. Back in that time, several people were taking 1g+ amounts of caffeine, so I thought I was being pretty reasonable. These days I don't see many people taking those amounts, and I have found better results at lower doses as well. At high amounts I would get adrenaline and water retention.
 

Tarmander

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@Tarmander So you still have the digestion benefits at your current dosage at 300mg but not the negatives?
Kind of hard to tell as I have been drinking coffee now for around 1.5 years. Charcoal really helped my digestion and my mood, but its tough to tell now because I take it almost every day. You get better and after a month you are used to better.
 

raypeatclips

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Kind of hard to tell as I have been drinking coffee now for around 1.5 years. Charcoal really helped my digestion and my mood, but its tough to tell now because I take it almost every day. You get better and after a month you are used to better.

I understand it is easy to get used to the benefits you get and that becomes the new norm. Would you say you didn't really have digestion issues now though? You've inspired me to start caffeine for digestion
 

Tarmander

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I understand it is easy to get used to the benefits you get and that becomes the new norm. Would you say you didn't really have digestion issues now though? You've inspired me to start caffeine for digestion

If you are going for digestion benefits, and I think that is probably the best place to focus for health in general, there are some other things that I would do before that. Charcoal was a real game changer for me. I think I wrote about it at some point in my log, but I absorbed supplements better and don't get as heavy and bogged down from problem meals and additives. Also, tonic water at meals, the stuff with Quinine, did very similar things as Charcoal. Cypro for a week can also help with irritants and allergies from food. Cypro can be pretty amazing at making some problem foods that aren't bad quality not a problem anymore. A food journal also is very helpful, especially because problematic food can be on a multi-day delay, and it can be hard to pinpoint exactly what is doing what without a journal. Those are the things I have done that have helped me the most with digestion...but I still don't feel well eating bad food...it is more like good food feels much better, and your good mood is not affected by the good food you eat.

After all that, THEN I would look at caffeine for digestion. I noticed from caffeine that my digestion became faster...basically hotter. But caffeine can be really volatile, especially if you are sick and having adrenaline surges. The goal of caffeine for long term use (not cleaning the liver or whatever) is to get on a stable amount every morning. It will help your digestion and liver in the long run, but in the short run it can cause loose stools and then maybe constipation if you have to take a lower amount...Volatile! I am not sure what your state of health is, but the things above are not stimulative, so anyone can do them really.
 

raypeatclips

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@Tarmander For the past 2-3 weeks my gut has been in mess. I've been diagnosed with IBS anyway and had on and off pain but the past few weeks it has been pretty consistently painful. Lots of bloating and feeling like I'm constipated but then stools are smooth but quite small, passing 2-3 small stools a day. Eating rice, meat, potatoes, some vegetables. I believe fructose was doing me harm. Also switched to lactose free milk. I have eaten generally the same foods the past 2 weeks with changing of symptoms. I will start to keep a food log though.

I have been taking 0.5mg x 2 cypro past couple of weeks and it has helped tremendously. I stopped past 2 days because I felt like maybe it was constipating me and I felt better than before. Symptoms returned again today and I have resumed taking it.

I have not use charcoal but I have some. I am catious to try it for a couple of reasons. Firstly I haven't taken it before and I don't feel comfortable taking a new supplement with my gut in the state it is. Also I don't want to be constipated under any circumstances. A few days ago I felt constipated and felt very ill until my bowel moved again.

I will get some tonic water thank you for the suggestion.

Basically I want my digestion to be stronger. I was thinking of starting caffeine in 10mg doses with meals, nothing crazy and working my way up.

Always appreciate any advice that can be given to me.
 

Tarmander

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@Tarmander For the past 2-3 weeks my gut has been in mess. I've been diagnosed with IBS anyway and had on and off pain but the past few weeks it has been pretty consistently painful. Lots of bloating and feeling like I'm constipated but then stools are smooth but quite small, passing 2-3 small stools a day. Eating rice, meat, potatoes, some vegetables. I believe fructose was doing me harm. Also switched to lactose free milk. I have eaten generally the same foods the past 2 weeks with changing of symptoms. I will start to keep a food log though.

I have been taking 0.5mg x 2 cypro past couple of weeks and it has helped tremendously. I stopped past 2 days because I felt like maybe it was constipating me and I felt better than before. Symptoms returned again today and I have resumed taking it.

I have not use charcoal but I have some. I am catious to try it for a couple of reasons. Firstly I haven't taken it before and I don't feel comfortable taking a new supplement with my gut in the state it is. Also I don't want to be constipated under any circumstances. A few days ago I felt constipated and felt very ill until my bowel moved again.

I will get some tonic water thank you for the suggestion.

Basically I want my digestion to be stronger. I was thinking of starting caffeine in 10mg doses with meals, nothing crazy and working my way up.

Always appreciate any advice that can be given to me.

Ahh, sorry to hear about your challenges. If constipation is a real issue, then a lot of those suggestions above might not work out right. Caffeine could definitely help there and 10mg at each meal is pretty conservative. Do you react well to Coffee or does the acid bother you? Instead of just straight caffeine, a sip or two of coffee at each meal might be better as you'd get some of the other good stuff in coffee. The bloating thing is the worst. That is the big sign that things are NOT right. I had bloating for years and it is a fickle little son of a *****. I don't have bloating anymore. It is tough to point to exactly what changed it, kind of a combination of everything above....charcoal, not as much liquid, larger meals only when it "felt right.," chasing a feeling of leanness while also eating...

The biggest thing is that you have to pay attention...as in laser like attention. Everything you stick in your mouth, watch how you react. Is your cheek getting a little blotchy? Did you drink a lot of liquid all at once? Do you get bloated when you add in some spice or something, but not bloated when you leave it out? Does getting an hour of sun make you bloated, but not 30 minutes? I promise, the answer is in the details. I really had to say to myself, okay I am going to sherlock the ***t out of this, and find the answer. If you get really committed, it should not take you more then a few weeks to see some type of improvement.
 

raypeatclips

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@Tarmander I haven't drank coffee in a long time, so not sure how it would effect me now, it was okay in the past until I started to reach higher caffeine levels, 500mg+. My reasons for taking the powder is so I know exactly how much caffeine I'm taking, although I would have a reasonable guess with coffee. Maybe I could do decaf coffee for the extras with caffeine powder or maybe that's the dumbest idea I've ever had.

I will start paying attention to things more but usually in the past i didn't feel good when I start to analyse my life too much. My thoughts become very ocd and diet becomes rather orthorexic but my digestion back then wasn't like it is now.
 
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