Remarkable Synergistic Effect Of Androsterone With DHEA

[Velve921]

In the past I believe you wrote that you took 1 week off at a time from using certain steroids, maybe I'll try that time frame of taking a break from Pansterone and Androsterone and see how I feel.

 

[haidut]

In the past I believe you wrote that you took 1 week off at a time from using certain steroids, maybe I'll try that time frame of taking a break from Pansterone and Androsterone and see how I feel.

I do take some time off, but it is more because I feel decreased intensity in effects and I don't want to push my DHT beyond the range, which happened before with progesterone and DHT levels and my doctor does not like it.

 

[Velve921]

I do take some time off, but it is more because I feel decreased intensity in effects and I don't want to push my DHT beyond the range, which happened before progesterone and DHT levels and my doctor does not like it.

I feel decreased effects so this seems to make sense for myself. I've switched out pansterone and androsterone for stressnon and a powdered pregnenolone by bulk powders.

 

[Wagner83]

Any idea what could cause the decrease in effects ? I remember haidut reported this and still had over the range dht levels from it.

 

[haidut]

Any idea what could cause the decrease in effects ? I remember haidut reported this and still had over the range dht levels from it.

I think there is only so much androgen agonism you can achieve with endogenous steroids. Once the available "receptors" are occupied, then any more of the steroid will probably get metabolized into compounds that sometimes have opposite effects (for a good reason, to control excess). So, if your DHT rises say 25% over the upper limit of the range it will probably start to metabolize into the androstanediols, some of which are partly estrogenic. Also, if DHT is high enough, it will drive estrogen too low and libido will be lost. Sense of libido is actually a driver/cause of muscle growth and anabolism, as much as it is a result. Making men think of sex raises their T levels two-fold for a brief period of time.
So, if your DHT is close to the upper limit then there is no good reason to drive it up further unless you are trying to treat some condition for which DHT is indicated (e.g. breast cancer).

 

[Wagner83]

That makes sense , it sounds like using a dose of the supplement so as to maintain the best sustainable state of body and mind is the best solution (rather than going almost overboard, taking time off and repeating the process). I say this because I have seen one or two members say they had diminished effects, took a week off, then had some positive effects but for a much shorter timeframe .

 

[paramax]

@haidut , here in Mexico i can get legally on most important Pharmacies: Proviron, Primoteston, Deca Durabolin and Nebido.
Proviron comes in a blister with 10 pills, 25mg each; Primoteston is one ampule with 1ml, which contains 250mg T Enan; and Deca is one amp with 50 mg of the nandrolone decanoate; and Nebido is one ampule with 4ml of 1000 mg of testosterone undecanoate.

When you say DHT, Proviron applies to it ? , do you recommend 4-7mg of primoteston/nebido topically ? lets say i can put the mentioned dose on my skin , then over it the Pansteron, i am thinking the DMSO in it, help the primo/nebido to go inside my body, whta you think ?

I have been using androsterone and Pansterone to overcome ED, but i get stress reactions instead specially with Pansterone, i am using 1 drop or 2 pansteron in the day after breakfast and 1 drop androsterone at night after dinner. I have notice a reduction in irritability and stress reaction after reading your threads many times, that eating well, increasing sugar reduce those negative symptons.
...

 

[haidut]

@haidut , here in Mexico i can get legally on most important Pharmacies: Proviron, Primoteston, Deca Durabolin and Nebido.
Proviron comes in a blister with 10 pills, 25mg each; Primoteston is one ampule with 1ml, which contains 250mg T Enan; and Deca is one amp with 50 mg of the nandrolone decanoate; and Nebido is one ampule with 4ml of 1000 mg of testosterone undecanoate.

When you say DHT, Proviron applies to it ? , do you recommend 4-7mg of primoteston/nebido topically ? lets say i can put the mentioned dose on my skin , then over it the Pansteron, i am thinking the DMSO in it, help the primo/nebido to go inside my body, whta you think ?

I have been using androsterone and Pansterone to overcome ED, but i get stress reactions instead specially with Pansterone, i am using 1 drop or 2 pansteron in the day after breakfast and 1 drop androsterone at night after dinner. I have notice a reduction in irritability and stress reaction after reading your threads many times, that eating well, increasing sugar reduce those negative symptons.
...

Proviron is probably OK as DHT replacement but I think the dose of 25mg daily may be too high for most people and suppress estrogen too much. I think something like 5mg Proviron and 10mg T daily would be more than enough for most people. I don't know much about the other steroids you mentioned.

 

[paramax]

Proviron is probably OK as DHT replacement but I think the dose of 25mg daily may be too high for most people and suppress estrogen too much. I think something like 5mg Proviron and 10mg T daily would be more than enough for most people. I don't know much about the other steroids you mentioned.

Thanks Haidut !!

I will try 5mg proviron at night or bit less, and 10 mg primoteston rubbed on my bellyfat, like subQ without needles.
Also will add the 2 drops per day of Pansteron after breakfast and 1 drop of androsterone after dinner.
...

 

[ecstatichamster]

my rat is on 3mg of androsterone and 5mg each of preg and dhea and all seems great, no need to cycle I think.

People almost give their rats too high a dose of hormones and prohormones.

 

[haidut]

People almost give their rats too high a dose of hormones and prohormones

This. Thanks for saying it! There is probably no legitimate reason for using more than 5mg androsterone per dose and for many even that may be too much. The estimates are similar to DHEA - 10mg/15mg daily in divided doses. The goal is not to have DHT 3 times higher than normal, the goal is to increase androgens to the quartile of the physiological levels.

 

[DKayJoe]

@haidut

Would giving a rat a mix of 5a-DHP,Androsterone and DHEA further potentiate benefits? I was even thinking of adding K2 into the mix.

Something like 3mg K2/3mg DHEA/3mg Pregnenolone on the testes, 2mg androsterone on the chest and 2mg 5a DHP on the shoulders.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Would giving a rat a mix of 5a-DHP,Androsterone and DHEA further potentiate benefits? I was even thinking of adding K2 into the mix.

Something like 3mg K2/3mg DHEA/3mg Pregnenolone on the testes, 2mg androsterone on the chest and 2mg 5a DHP on the shoulders.

I think either 5a-DHP or androsterone can be used to the Preg/DHEA/K mix. Using both 5a-DHP and andro may help but it may also be redundant since 5a-DHP will convert to andro eventually. It also helps to see difference in effects and that is another reason to use only one of them at a time. So, I would try 5a-DHP and Pansterone/K for a week and then do another week with androsterone/Pansterone/K. It seems so far people are really liking the effects 5a-DHP on its own so it if possible for it to replace androsterone completely for some people then no need to take both. My gut feeling is that some people will react better to 5a-DHP with the Pansterone/K mix, while others will feel better with androsterone/Pansterone/K. It really depends on how much androgeninc tone deficiency/excess is in each organism and that will determine which supplement will work better.

 

[johnwester130]

how well would

dhea
dht
androsterone

combine ?

 

[haidut]

how well would

dhea
dht
androsterone

combine ?

Well, the thread is about combining DHEA and androsterone being good. So, I am guessing your question is about adding DHT to the mix. It probably won't hurt but I don't see the need as androsterone itself is androgenic, should block conversion of DHEA into estrone, and converts into DHT even when taken in physiological doses, but only if needed. So, it seems with DHEA/androsterone combo you get all the benefits in steroids that are OTC and fairly well studied and used for decades.

 

[Wagner83]

I've been playing with pansterone and androsterone, effects have been a bit inconsistent with pansterone alone (I only tried it for 2-3 days though) so I quickly added androsterone. 6 drops pansterone (2 on each leg and 2 on scrotum) had been negative .

On the first day of the duet, 3 drops pansterone + 1 drop androsterone did not produce particular effects, I was just sedated which in my case is redundant , the next day I took 4 drops of pansterone + 2 drops of androsterone before bed and slept well, I was very calm today , which has pros and cons (no crazy energy to use), more emotionally stable (not getting irritated or frustrated as quick). I did an other 4 + 2 today after a big meal and felt really warm, I had to take a quick nap too, erection appeared and stayed on for longer than usual (it often happens after a good lunch before the body gently relaxes into a nap).

I will continue to experiment some more, ideally I'd like to switch to a sporadic use of the supplements to maintain healthy levels of androgens.

 

[haidut]

I've been playing with pansterone and androsterone, effects have been a bit inconsistent with pansterone alone (I only tried it for 2-3 days though) so I quickly added androsterone. 6 drops pansterone (2 on each leg and 2 on scrotum) had been negative .

On the first day of the duet, 3 drops pansterone + 1 drop androsterone did not produce particular effects, I was just sedated which in my case is redundant , the next day I took 4 drops of pansterone + 2 drops of androsterone before bed and slept well, I was very calm today , which has pros and cons (no crazy energy to use), more emotionally stable (not getting irritated or frustrated as quick). I did an other 4 + 2 today after a big meal and felt really warm, I had to take a quick nap too, erection appeared and stayed on for longer than usual (it often happens after a good lunch before the body gently relaxes into a nap).

I will continue to experiment some more, ideally I'd like to switch to a sporadic use of the supplements to maintain healthy levels of androgens.

Great, thanks for the feedback! If you do any blood tests please share the results.

 

[Soren]

Is there any scenario where this combination of Androsterone and DHEA would lead to a loss of libido? Perhaps through a negative feedback loop of some kind?

 

[haidut]

Is there any scenario where this combination of Androsterone and DHEA would lead to a loss of libido? Perhaps through a negative feedback loop of some kind?

If estrogen is driver too low then it can, yes. That's why I would stick to the dose of androsterone/DHEA mentioned in the threads and Peat's recommendations - i.e. 10mg - 15mg of each steroid daily. For many people even 5mg of each would do. It is important not to overdo it, and I would measure DHEA-S and DHT levels every once in a while to confirm nothing crazy is going on.

 

[Soren]

If estrogen is driver too low then it can, yes. That's why I would stick to the dose of androsterone/DHEA mentioned in the threads and Peat's recommendations - i.e. 10mg - 15mg of each steroid daily. For many people even 5mg of each would do. It is important not to overdo it, and I would measure DHEA-S and DHT levels every once in a while to confirm nothing crazy is going on.

Interesting. I initially felt great on this combination, libido boost, mental clarity. I was also taking a few other supplements that have been shown lower estrogen, cortisol and prolactin. I think I might have overdone things. One of the most unusual and pleasant aspects I got from this combo was the relief from chronic foot pain which I had been experiencing for months, especially in the morning.

I think that this pain was largely correlated to thyroid function and since this combo acts very much like a thyroid mimic that might have been why I was seeing the relief from foot pain.

My question is,
If I were to increase my T3/t4 (currently on 6mcgT3 and 12mcgT4) dose instead of using this Andro/DHEA combo, do you think that would be a way to get the same metabolic benefit without the loss of libido?

I know that when the thyroid is functioning properly that androgens greatly increase but I feel that it would be more likely to be balanced then with Andro and Dhea as said combo pretty much stops estrogen in its tracks whereas Thyroid improves overall metabolism and one of the consequences of that is lower estrogen, but I would theorize that it will be more harmonious.