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Religious Discussion

Discussion in 'Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality' started by damngoodcoffee, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. damngoodcoffee

    damngoodcoffee Member

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  2. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

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    Isaiah 46

    9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    The above was written by Isaiah who explained that his writing and powers of prophesy came from God, and were evidence of God.

    An example I learned of yesterday of where the end was declared at the beginning was the number plate on the car in which Archduke Francis Ferdinand was assassinated. (His assassination started World War 1).

    The number plate was A111 118.

    The end of WW1 was Armistice day 11th November 1918.

    Our lives seem to play out chronologically and with freedom to choose, but prophesy appears to confound this view.

    12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:

    13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    (Jesus lived 8 centuries after Isaiah).
     
  3. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

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    For those who disparage the Roman Catholic Church, here is a prophesy from Jesus to one of his 2 disciples named Simon:

    Matthew 16

    13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

    14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

    15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

    16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    (Peter means rock as in 'petrified' or even 'petroleum'. The disciple Simon Peter went from Jerusalem to Rome and preached the gospel there. He was crucified at the site of the future St Peter's Basilica in the Vatican.)
     
  4. sugarisgreat

    sugarisgreat Member

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    The four kingdoms in Daniel 7 were:
    1. Babylon
    2. Medo Persia
    3. Greece
    4. Rome (Christ's first coming during the reign of this Kingdom)

    (little horn of Daniel 7-the Papacy who reigned and had civil power for 1,260 years, 3 and a half prophetic years, 42 months.)
    A lot of Revelations was written to help saints in standing up against false Christianity/doctrine and to strengthen the saints that were tortured in the vilest ways by these papal beasts (beast-kingdoms in the Bible).

    Daniel Chapter 7

    We now may be in the little season described in revelations prior to Christ's return and most certainly are in the era of Perilous Times discussed in 2nd Timothy where men want their ears tickled with fables rather that sound doctrine.
    Most Christians churches have returned to Rome in Bibles (fakes), prophecy (futurism), worship (baal), doctrine (man's free will rather than God's will)

    Great video for a history lesson for those with ears to hear:



    Jehovah is the true God (all others are false). A simple way to prove this is fulfilled prophecy.
    Why I Believe the Bible - Proof that the Creator God Wrote the Bible

    Peace!
     
  5. sugarisgreat

    sugarisgreat Member

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    The Original Catholic Encyclopedia claims Peter reigned as pope from 33 to 67 in Rome.
    Paul in his lengthy list of names in Romans 16 makes no mention at all of Simon Peter.
    If Peter were ruler at Rome, Paul would have listed him first and far above others noted.
    Peter was ignored as chief bishop and sole possessor of keys of the kingdom of Heaven.
    Paul called on the Romans to rectify their disorders without a word to Peter to help out.
    There is no Bible evidence of any sort that Peter ever visited Rome or had anything to do
    with converts there, just like there is no Bible evidence the assumption of Mary, etc., etc.
    Peter penned his first epistle from Babylon (I Pet 5:13), 1800 miles from Rome!
    Papists, needing Peter in Rome, suggest Babylon as its mystical name! See Rev 17:1-6!
    These fools consign their church and its pope to hell in order to place Peter in Rome!
    Many Jews stayed after captivity, and some at Pentecost were dwellers in Mesopotamia.
    Peter was an apostle of the Jews, as Paul noted and his epistle repeats (Gal 2:9; I Pet 1:1).
    Let God be true, but every man a liar, especially the deluded devils of the Roman brothel!

    Peter had no supremacy over the other apostles as the popes of Rome.
    Jesus never told the other apostles to submit themselves to Peter as a pope (Mat 23:8-12).
    The rock on which Jesus built His church was Peter’s words, not Peter (Matt 16:16-18).
    The keys of the kingdom Jesus gave Peter He gave the rest (Matt 16:19; 18:18; Jn 20:23).
    Peter had no infallibility or primacy, for Paul rebuked him and then recorded it (Ga 2:11).
    In 2nd Peter he speaks complimentary of beloved brother and apostle Paul (II Pet 3:15).
    The church’s foundation is all apostles and prophets, but Jesus is cornerstone (Eph 2:20)
    Peter was married unlike the popes, priests, nuns, and monks who according to Scriptures, are practicing doctrines of devils by forbidding marriage. If you are unsure of the plagues this has caused, please read biographies of nuns who escaped cloistered nunneries. How many children have been sexually tortured by this plague on The Great Whore (the Catholic church), the home of every unclean and hateful bird, according to Revelation 18.
     
  6. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

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    Certainly Jesus is more important than Simon Peter, but Peter was crucified and buried in the crypt of St Peter's and is essentially the foundation stone of St Peter's Basilica at the heart of the Roman Catholic Church which has taught about Christ and survived attacks against it for 2000 years!

    You seem to be suggesting that Jesus was taken out of context and never meant to endorse the Roman Catholic Church with this verse:

    18 Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Was it just a divine error to call Simon son of Jonah "Rock" as a nickname while actually meaning to refer to Simon's words as the Rock?

    Certainly neither Jesus nor the church endorses child molestation. Yet Islam does, and you don't seem to be concerned about that.
     
  7. sugarisgreat

    sugarisgreat Member

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    Charlie

    With all due respect, you are not representing the Scriptures correctly.
    He that is first in his own cause seemeth just, but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him. (Prov. 18-17)

    To both Charlie and Richie-
    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1 :20). The Scriptures can be reconciled (and are) with the simple explanation in my first post.

    Richie@
    God doesn't warn us specifically about Islam, but He warns us specifically about the catholic church. History proves all I am writing here and the Scriptures confirm it. If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ- "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev. 18:4-KJV)
    It has been theorized that Islam was started by the Catholic Church to gain control in that region (Mohamed was married to a catholic-see curious similarity to birkas and nuns garbs).
    If the catholic church would just read Genesis 16:12-they would have known the descendents of Ishmael would not be tamed!

    BTW-The Catholic Church is "judiasm" for gentiles.
    The Jesuits (counter reformation) were founded by a Loyola-a "jew"
    The Kabbala, Talmud, new agism, and most science falsely called in our education system is designed to deceive and roots back to Babylon.
     
  8. sugarisgreat

    sugarisgreat Member

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    Here are just a few of so many proof it is painful. Most men do not want truth. 2 Thes. 2 confirms this. God gives people over to strong delusion who want lies.

    (1) If God is love, who loves and tolerates all people of all faiths, then why on earth is there eternal punishment promised, with no possibility of reprieve or let up, especially for those who take the Mark of the Beast?

    (2) If the Mark of the Beast is administered via the right hand and forehead, described in the Revelation, why on earth does the Roman Catholic Church use this same method for signing the sign of the cross in all its rituals and blessings?

    (3) If, in the Roman Catholic Latin Bible, the 'mark' - as in 'Mark' of the Beast - is translated characterem, why on earth did she use the identical Latin word - characterem - when describing the indelible 'mark' given in her sacraments of baptism, confirmation and holy orders?

    (4) If the City of 7 Hills, Rome, is identified in the Revelation as the headquarters of the false church, the Mother of all Harlots, doomed to damnation by the infallible word of prophecy, why on earth did the Roman Catholic Church choose that site for her Holy See and Pontificate?

    (5) If the beast from the earth, the false prophet doomed to damnation, is depicted as having two horns like the Lamb, Jesus, why on earth do the Roman Catholic bishops and Pontiff wear two-horned miters?

    (6) If the false church, doomed to damnation, her capital in Rome, is named Mother, why on earth do Roman Catholics call her holy Mother, the church?

    (7) If the false church, doomed to damnation, whose dominance, sway and authority is worldwide as described in the Revelation, why on earth did the Church of Rome call herself 'Catholic,' which means 'universal,' comprehending the whole world?

    (8) If the false church, doomed to damnation, is depicted clothed in purple and scarlet in the Revelation, why on earth did the Roman Catholic Church choose those colors for her Pope, Cardinals and bishops?

    (9) If the false church, doomed to damnation, is portrayed in the Revelation as wealthy beyond belief, wearing costly gold and precious stones and pearls, why on earth is the Roman Catholic Church the richest institution, whose wealth is incalculable?

    (10) If, in the Revelation, the false church, doomed to damnation, is seen drinking the blood of the martyrs of Jesus in a golden cup, why on earth did the Roman Catholic Church spill the innocent blood of the true Christians who refused to partake the cup of the Mass, which of necessity must also be golden in its interior, if not its exterior?

    (11) If the word of prophecy warned 1st century Christians of the coming Antichrist, why on earth did the Pope claim to be the Vicar of Christ when this title, translated into the Greek, is 'ANTICHRIST'?

    The Roman Catholic Church is that false church foretold unto destruction, and her Pontiff the very Antichrist, whose predestined end is the Lake of Fire. Those who remain in her, no matter how kind, considerate and religious, are doomed to the same fate according to Scripture.
    That would include the Order of Preachers who carry God's eternal curse for preaching another gospel.
     
  9. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    Or consider we live in a simulated reality and God is a super computer...
     
  10. MommaBear

    MommaBear Member

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    Www.redefininggod.Com
    ... shows the bible prophesy ajenda is NWO. Putin will bring in the alternate, 'good' NWO after the war separates the nations. coming soon.
     
  11. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    How does the human race expanding to Mars and beyond fit into a Biblical view? This isn't me being silly, it's a genuine question.

    Within 10 years we'll start colonising Mars. Then probably within another 100 (probably much shorter) we'll be on multiple further planets.

    How does this fit in?

    Also, what happens if we discover other intelligent life on our travels? Highly unlikely, but not because it's not out there, but just due to the vastness of time and space.
     
  12. luke gadget

    luke gadget Member

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    Others have taken the question seriously. C. S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet, and others, were about exactly that. Does the biblical story play out on each planet separately - millions of separate Adams and Eves and millions of Floods? That's a little bit ridiculous (though makes for entertaining fiction), so maybe it happened simultaneously? But then not all planets and the possible life on them existed at the same time. Maybe it only happened here on earth, but that would make God just a local backwater deity not "Creator of the universe".

    If one is going to discuss Christian Creation mythology, I prefer Tolkien to Lewis. They were good friends - Tolkien convinced Lewis of the "truth" of Christianity, then was chagrined that Lewis took it a bit 'too far'. Tolkien really kept it subtle, though it clearly informs especially Lord of the Rings. He was the one that coined that "creative mind" idea, mangled above. His thesis was, because we are created in God's image, we also create, and the worlds we create (in story) are just as real. It's a lovely idea, though with fallacies of its own if taken too literally.
     
  13. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    I strongly disagree. Corporatism is less harmful than communism. Look at the death tolls for Hitler's Germany and the Empire of Japan (international + domestic) versus Stalin's USSR and Mao's China (even just domestic); the figures aren't even remotely close, even if you take into account WWII.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    I'm not referring to death tolls but to removing state legitimacy. If you believe, like I do, that the state is a criminal, evil institution, then the last thing you want is leaders that hide this fact (like Obama) or leaders that do slightly less bad and more good with it. If you have a really incompetent leader, like Chavez was in Venezuela, you will destroy that state quickly, like ripping off a bandaid. What comes next is up to the people, but the worst that could happen is just another state.
     
  15. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Are you familiar with r-K selection theory as a governmental model?

    Are you also familiar with cultural strategism?
     
  16. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    Yeah, and I don't think a Trump administration is going to do anything to help with K selection in our society, nor is K selection going to lead to phasing out the state. I think of it this way, there is no way I can ever convince everyone else to organize society the way I want it to be organized, nor would I think that's even a good thing necessarily. The best argument I can make, the easiest one, and the most practical, is to get people to see that the state is an evil institution and people should be allowed to opt out.

    You can get leftists with this message by saying states or local districts should be able to craft their own drug laws, allowing people to opt out. Also with war, making the argument that you shouldn't be forced to pay taxes for wars (which leftists would tend to like) and use that as a way to get into the door of opening their minds that taxes in general are wrong.

    With the right wing, making abortion, gay marriage, welfare etc. a local or state issue rather than a federal is a way to get them on board of opting out.

    What I'm trying to say is that you and I or the entire alt right internet posting troll brigade isn't going to do ***t to make society at large lean towards r or K selection, if that's even a valid model for politics. But what you can do is put up a bulwark between yourself, or your community, and the effects of r selected communities. If we got rid of centralized welfare, centralized schooling, centralized everything, then dumb r selected people can try socialism all they want. It's much more practical to get an opt out option than to force society to change its ways.
     
  17. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    The very purpose of socialism is as follows: 1) Make the moral argument that all should be under one banner (regressive in a social sense, as well as an economic sense); 2) Use quantitative advantage with or without a democratic model to serve the needs of the majority.

    In a democracy, those who have more kids have an advantage.

    Here's a map of the world with fertility, (a more accurate model of the CIA World Factbook of 2016)
    [​IMG]

    With open borders, or at least liberal immigration, you'll have a disproportionate amount of members from these countries.

    Here's a world map using Hofstede's individualism scoring index:

    [​IMG]

    You'll have a disproportionate amount of collectivist migration from Mexico, South America, Africa, Asia (India and Japan slightly less so), and Eastern Europe.

    Do you think collectivists are open to libertarian dialogue and debate? Do you think people share your belief in sovereignty to implement your own property rights?

    These are statistics; make your own conclusions.

    I just came across a preface for this book; it's a short-read and succinct:

    The Parasite-Stress Theory of Values and Sociality
     
  18. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    It does not follow that because some cultures out breed others, that there will be mass immigration and dilution of the less fecund. In a world of property rights, immigration would not be a government issue but no different than moving within a country. If there was no welfare, non-working, multiple kid having immigrants would not have the wherewithal to get here and stay here. If I decided to never work again and have a bunch of kids, and wanted to move to Maryland, where would I go? Imagine I don't have access to welfare. I would have to convince someone with a house or apartment to let me live there, without paying rent. How would I eat?

    Here's the problem with the alt right, they do the same thing the left does when criticizing free markets. Someone might say that health care costs are going up, and blame that on the market, when the costs only started to spike after significant government regulation and have been getting higher and higher with more and more regulation. Anyone without a leftist bias can see that, and the same phenomenon happened with higher education. The argument is that we need more government grants and loans because people can't afford to go, but if you divide the cost of the average college, or Harvard, per year by the median yearly income in the past, it was a lower ratio than that same division now, and we have had decades of subsidization. The logical conclusion is that subsidization causes prices to increase faster than otherwise.

    What we have now is government sponsored immigration. There were open borders in this country for the first 100+ years and it was the source of our growth. Natives have always found the immigrants distasteful, but as long as they were coming here to be free and make a better living for themselves, they enriched themselves and everyone else. This policy slowly changed in the 20th century, and in the 1970s in particular the government started making it harder for Europeans and other 1st worlders to immigrate here, and easier for 3rd worlders who would likely rely on welfare and other government assistance to come. Ghettos developed, as in Europe. Our own native black population regressed economically because of the effect welfare had on their career aspirations and the black family unit. The average immigrant that comes here now is not coming to be free or to make a better life for themselves by working, but is here to get handouts. They vote for more handouts. Same with the collapsing black community.

    That whole paragraph has nothing to do with open borders and liberty, and everything to do with government ruining yet one more thing by involving itself, this time being immigration. So while I understand the r/K theory, breeding frequency, IQ, voting patterns of immigrants and all of that, the solution is not going to be to give the government more power to "fix" immigration. That would be akin to the government "fixing" healthcare or the higher education system. They ruined it in the first place, they cannot fix it. The only solution is liberty, allowing the natives of America to opt out of subsidizing the immigrants, that will cause civil unrest and problems but will also cause many of them to shape up and start contributing to society. It's the only way, an authoritarian approach will only cause a different problem to take the place of the current one, as in all top down government "solutions."
     
  19. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Such a world doesn't exist, and will not in our lifetimes.
    The easiest way: force the local supermarket to give you money.
    And what groups do you think voted for the change? Who voted for the welfare state?
    And where will this liberty solution come from? Mass tax evasion?
     
  20. Bahaa El wazzan

    Bahaa El wazzan Member

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    I think he is anti biotic

    Christ will be back by Mia Khalifa :D
     
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