Regenerating elastin? Possible?

[Nfinkelstein]

The only "natural" thing I am aware of that works for warts or moles is a cauterizing cream, pristine herbal makes one (it is a combination of Anacardium occidentale, Ficus Carica, Chelidonium Majus, Lemon, Talc). Trouble is unless you are careful it can scar. But it works.

 

[Blossom]

Just 1 month ago, I started applying a bi-est cream at night around my eyes and on my cheeks, and the capillaries went away in 2 WEEKS! I know it's not popular around here, but studies show that topical estrogen stimulates collagen growth, minimizing fine lines too.

Just my 2 cents!

I’ve been thinking for awhile that this topic deserves a dedicated thread of it’s own. We’d have to label it Anti-Peat of course but it would still definitely worth it to have a frank and civil discussion because this can be such a hot topic. I’ve had the suspicion that we lose too many women in the midlife years on this forum because Peat’s standard hormone and metabolic recommendations don’t always go deep enough to help women around the menopause transition. I appreciate your willingness to put yourself out there and share your thoughts. I greatly value honest input from other women who are willing to share their lived experience. I certainly don’t have all the answers myself but I’d love to see us make some headway in this area.

 

[Momma]

I’ve been thinking for awhile that this topic deserves a dedicated thread of it’s own. We’d have to label it Anti-Peat of course but it would still definitely worth it to have a frank and civil discussion because this can be such a hot topic. I’ve had the suspicion that we lose too many women in the midlife years on this forum because Peat’s standard hormone and metabolic recommendations don’t always go deep enough to help women around the menopause transition. I appreciate your willingness to put yourself out there and share your thoughts. I greatly value honest input from other women who are willing to share their lived experience. I certainly don’t have all the answers myself but I’d love to see us make some headway in this area.

Doesn’t go deep enough? Have you read his books From PMS to Menopause, Generative Energy, or Nutrition for Women? It’s his life’s work primarily. It’s in depth. These books are a great starting place vs the forum.
If one thinks they can find answers outside of his work; enjoy the experimentation. Does Peat get our every nuance right? Of course not, he’s not our personal healer. But the big ideas he is tried and true on.


Edit: grammar

 

[youngsinatra]

You need optimal ceruloplasmin levels for lysyl oxidase activity (collagen crosslinking)

Ray said that the midde of the reference range or a bit above is good for ceruloplasmin. (so ~ 30-40 mg/dl)

How to raise it? Puh. Thats the big question. Thyroid hormone probably. Maybe preg/DHEA. Supporting the adrenals. Supporting the body. Avoiding things that impair Cp synthesis.

 

[LadyRae]

[/QUOTE]

I’ve been thinking for awhile that this topic deserves a dedicated thread of it’s own. We’d have to label it Anti-Peat of course but it would still definitely worth it to have a frank and civil discussion because this can be such a hot topic. I’ve had the suspicion that we lose too many women in the midlife years on this forum because Peat’s standard hormone and metabolic recommendations don’t always go deep enough to help women around the menopause transition. I appreciate your willingness to put yourself out there and share your thoughts. I greatly value honest input from other women who are willing to share their lived experience. I certainly don’t have all the answers myself but I’d love to see us make some headway in this area.

Thanks for your kind and mature response! Women in middle age approaching menopause are coming from incredibly varied backgrounds, body composition, diet, stress, exercise, sleep, etc. It's just impossible to make blanket statements.

Yesterday I was thinking about this thread and a few years ago I ordered topical progesterone cream from Dr Michael Platt, he has a book called The power of progesterone, or something like that. We communicated through email and he also sent me an estriol cream that he recommended for women to use around their eyes in perimenopause.

Unfortunately I threw it away as I had recently started reading the work of Ray Peat. I began using the progesterone cream with just made me feel horrible. It's very possible I threw away the wrong cream !

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to bring that up considering that he is a big proponent of progesterone but didn't feel that a topical Estriol cream would be dangerous, but in fact very beneficial.

 

[Momma]

@LadyRae





I get it. Progesterone didn’t work well for me or for you. But that doesn’t equate estrogen being ok.

I presume you are active on other forums that support your stance. Have you read most of these linked below? Do you understand the role of DHEA and pregnenalone? The “progesterone steal” due to cortisol? Have you read the work of Dalton?

I don’t mean reading the threads. But the studies within the threads.

Estrogen Is Neurotoxic

Again, if this is well known then how come estrogen therapy is recommended for diseases like MS, Alzheimers, Parkinson, etc? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1425446 "...Estradiol valerate (EV) treatment has been shown to result in the destruction of 60% of beta-endorphin neurons in the...

raypeatforum.com

The Masculinizing Effects Of Estrogen

Ray has written about the incorrect belief that estrogen is a "female" hormone and how some of the brain structures in male fetuses are mainly shaped by estrogen. Here is a study examining the effect of oral contraceptives on brain structure and behavior. It covers several of Peat's points on...

raypeatforum.com

Toxic Plant Estrogens – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Noradrenaline (and Likely Adrenalin) Increases Estrogen

The mechanism is through activation of aromatase. Note the double hit - i.e. noradrenalin both increased the synthesis of estrogen through aromatase AND also decreased DHT synthesis through 5-AR. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6290295 "...NE (10 microM) added to pineal organ cultures...

raypeatforum.com

It's Official - Estrogen Suppresses / Lowers Metabolism

The study is actually quite pernicious because it suggests highly beneficial effects of estrogen, especially for men. However, hidden in the press release was this gem. http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/man-flu-appears-be-real-estrogen-helps-women-fend-virus "...The reasons behind...

raypeatforum.com

Pregnenolone Is An Estrogen Antagonist

This has been stated by Peat a few times but usually the assumption has been that pregnenolone converts into progesterone and that is how it exerts its anti-estrogenic effects. This older study claims that pregnenolone (also called delta-5-pregnenolone) is directly antagonistic to estrogen...

raypeatforum.com

Estrogen is the cause of breast cancer

Both good and sad news here. The good news is that Ray has been proven correct again, and the bad ones is that many women permanently disfigure themselves by cutting their breasts off due to medicine's ignorance. It quickly becomes clear (to anyone with some time to research the topic) that...

raypeatforum.com

Katharina Dalton And Progesterone & Blood Sugar

K Dalton says that when using progesterone we must avoid low blood sugar: "we must have a stable blood sugar level, and for that we insist that patients use the three-hourly starch diet. The ideal is that they should eat in a way that does not cause a drop in the blood sugar, because a drop in...

raypeatforum.com

This is what i was referring to when asking about metabolic stress. Low blood sugar.

Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

The great progesterone pioneer Dr. Katharina Dalton, who successfully improved the quality of life thousands of women -including many difficult cases with neurologic problems- by improving progesterone function in them, didn't seem to be very fond of low-carb and starvation / low calorie kind of...

raypeatforum.com

I believe you, and possibly Blossom, aren’t big carb folks. More keto or carnivore iirc.
That’s relevant.

Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

The great progesterone pioneer Dr. Katharina Dalton, who successfully improved the quality of life thousands of women -including many difficult cases with neurologic problems- by improving progesterone function in them, didn't seem to be very fond of low-carb and starvation / low calorie kind of...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Nicole W.]

Oh I realize Peat is very anti-estrogen, but as you can see just from a couple articles that I posted, this is a very arguable issue. Since this thread is about increasing collagen and elastin in the skin, topical estrogen is clearly advantageous, and many studies prove it.

I am fully aware that this is not popular within this forum.

When I’m in an estrogen dominate state, I notice that my hands swell slightly. Looking at them, my first impression is how much better they look. The skin is smooth and plump, not veiny or wrinkled.
I think this is how estrogen can make us look better. Swelling probably injures tissues on some level, so this would stimulate regeneration just like needling would, but to a lesser degree.
An increase in elastin or collagen would be expected under these circumstances.
A lot of beauty treatments are based on the idea that injury begets beauty because it forces the body into the stressful state of having to ramp up resources to repair itself.

I think at some point, if you abuse this mechanism for long enough, the body will not be able to mount a proper healing response and you could end up ruining the tissue for good.

 

[LadyRae]

@Momma
I also linked to studies showing the benefits of topical estrogen therapy.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I am low carb but I eat a ton of carbohydrates mostly in the form of fruit and carrots.

It's okay if you don't like estrogen, but that doesn't mean that it won't be appropriate for others. Please don't post emotionally reactive and negative material because it inhibits other people from bringing up concerns.

Actually I'm not part of any other forums supporting estrogen supplementation, although I did find a lot of positive information about it during a quick Reddit search...

As I just posted in a different thread here, I have experienced a complete elimination to my insomnia in the past week, which was my PMS week. Normally I would have terrible if any sleep after 1:00 a.m.

I am not saying that my results would be the same for everyone of course, that is the point.

 

[Momma]

Please don't post emotionally reactive and negative material because it inhibits other people from bringing up concerns.

Not emotionally reactive. That is your interpretation.

Lately I'm getting the impression people are just seeking validation to disprove Peat through ad hominem attacks. I guess that explains the lack of people trying to debate the science like I saw in the past, they just attack your composure now.

From another thread. Probably relevant here as well.

 

[Peatress]

@Momma posted a lot great information above. If anyone really wants to understand why they react to progesterone in a negative way, perhaps, there is a lot here to explain why.

Someone doesn’t have to agree with you to be on your side.

 

[frannybananny]

It colors the hair with a henna dye, it's got henna in it.

I'm familiar with henna but this oil doesn't have much or it would be darker. Also henna makes your hair hard and brittle whereas this oil makes it soft and strong. Thanks for your feedback though.

 

[Bluebell]

@LadyRae could you link to the liquid DHEA you are using - are you putting that on your skin too, & how much are you taking?

 

[LadyRae]

@LadyRae could you link to the liquid DHEA you are using - are you putting that on your skin too, & how much are you taking?

I take 1 squirt (12 mg) under my tongue at bedtime, at the same time I rub the estrogen cream onto either my chest, forearms, or lower legs and ankles... I find that it's quite relaxing and that if I take it in the morning I almost feel too relaxed...

Amazon product ASIN B0001VUBI4View: https://www.amazon.com/NaturesPlus-DHEA-Lipoceutical-Spray-Micro-Soluble/dp/B0001VUBI4/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=2HXXW6TWRE8BE&keywords=liquid+dhea&qid=1685033149&sprefix=liquid+dhea%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-17

 

[Bluebell]

Thanks so much LadyRae, & great that it is relaxing and you can take before bed.

 

[LadyRae]

Thanks so much LadyRae, & great that it is relaxing and you can take before bed.

You are very welcome!

 

[kimbriel]

Thanks for your kind and mature response! Women in middle age approaching menopause are coming from incredibly varied backgrounds, body composition, diet, stress, exercise, sleep, etc. It's just impossible to make blanket statements.

Yesterday I was thinking about this thread and a few years ago I ordered topical progesterone cream from Dr Michael Platt, he has a book called The power of progesterone, or something like that. We communicated through email and he also sent me an estriol cream that he recommended for women to use around their eyes in perimenopause.

Unfortunately I threw it away as I had recently started reading the work of Ray Peat. I began using the progesterone cream with just made me feel horrible. It's very possible I threw away the wrong cream !

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to bring that up considering that he is a big proponent of progesterone but didn't feel that a topical Estriol cream would be dangerous, but in fact very beneficial.
[/QUOTE]

When people start feeling horrible from Progesterone, it's generally because of "estrogen kickback" - because progesterone activates the estrogen receptors. That said, I don't think it's bad to use estrogen, just never alone (without progesterone). I'm glad to read about your experience, though.

I'm 44 and pretty sure I'm perimenopausal. I take progesterone drops and use progesterone cream.

 

[zorba990]

I'm currently looking into Software / Shockwave therapy and I believe this can have an effect in that area.

SoftWave Tissue Regeneration - SoftWave

SoftWave TRT uses patented technology to reach an injured area at cellular level to successfully turn on the body's natural healing process.

softwavetrt.com

As an update I have done several treatments for my hip and back and find it very useful and somewhat unique in terms of regenerating soft tissue. However the expense is high and currently looking into the best DIY options as the machine prices come down. Will hope somewhere trustworthy like life giving store will look into carrying one of these. Amazon has several and the price point for them seems to be 1-2 K versus 10-50 times as much for a chiropractor level machine.