Regenerating elastin? Possible?

[LadyRae]

@LadyRae, do you apply the bi-est only during the first 14 days of your cycle to be in line with natural hormones? & do you notice any difference in how you feel from it, e.g. energy (so then wouldn't want to use at night)?

I apply before bed to my chest and neck, sometimes just my inner arms, and sometimes to the tops of my feet and ankle area. It does not disturb my sleep or cause excess energy at night, but I've noticed a lot more even energy and mood during the day for sure. Also when I wake up in the morning my ring is loose which is always a sign of health for me as sometimes in the past when I'm not eating the right foods or whatever, I will have tight and puffy hands in the morning...

When I researched dosing schedule, everything said to take it everyday without a pause, like you would with progesterone.

 

[Bluebell]

Thanks LadyRae, very interesting! how much of a pump of do you apply per night, I see one pump of the one you linked has 5mg per pump ...

 

[LadyRae]

Just 1 pump.

Thanks LadyRae, very interesting! how much of a pump of do you apply per night, I see one pump of the one you linked has 5mg per pump ...

Just 1 pump for now. I have not experienced any sore breasts, which is the gold standard for "taking too much"

Most bioidentical over-the-counter creams are just estriol, the weakest estrogen. The one I am using with both estradiol and estriol, is supposed to be a little more potent.

 

[Bluebell]

Very cool thanks!

 

[Momma]

I am sure there is some validity to topical estrogen cream. Water retention being one mechanism for plump or fuller skin. I believe it is supposed to thicken the skin too by another mechanism.

But-
At what cost?

 

[LadyRae]

I am sure there is some validity to topical estrogen cream. Water retention being one mechanism for plump or fuller skin. I believe it is supposed to thicken the skin too by another mechanism.

But-
At what cost?

I am experiencing no water retention whatsoever, unlike progesterone which just made me horribly bloated, puffy and swollen.

Edit: and just to reiterate, I'm not trying to encourage everyone to take estrogen. I was just responding to the original title of the thread regarding elastin and providing evidence showing what can increase the production of it in the skin.

 

[Peatress]

Collagen and elastin deal with the signs of ageing, like wrinkles and sagging. As you age, your body reduces or stops the production of these two proteins. This in turn, disturbs your skin’s natural ability to repair skin damage.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://skinkraft.com/blogs/articles/collagen-vs-elastin%23:~:text%3DBoth%2520collagen%2520and%2520elastin%2520are,skin%2520may%2520also%2520become%2520leathery.&ved=2ahUKEwi82aif3oj_AhXLBDQIHXJnAREQFnoECCMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0qOTe3CKD6SxcU0gxCr6zA

The incidence of cancer increases exponentially with age, but when random mutations are seen as the cause of cancer, aging as an essential cause of cancer is disregarded. The total collagen content of the body increases with aging, and the stiffness of that collagen also increases. The total collagen content in cancer patients is higher than in people without cancer (Zimin, et al., 2010). This suggests that the processes in the body that produce aging are acting more intensely in those who develop cancer. As the collagen accumulates in the extracellular matrix, the whole body becomes more favorable for the appearance of cancer. Ray Peat

 

[Peatress]

Anyone know if this is possible ? If so any ideas?

Magnesium and copper? Preventing calcification should help too.

"Elastin is a protein, the units of which are probably bound together by copper atoms. In old age, elastin is one of the first substances to calcify, for example in the elastic layers of arteries, causing them to lose elasticity, and to harden into almost bone-like tubes. In the heart and kidneys, the mitochondria (rich in copper-enzymes) are often the location showing the earliest calcification, for example when magnesium is deficient.

Obviously, certain proteins have higher than average affinity for copper, iron, and calcium. For example, egg-white's unusual behavior with copper can be seen if you make a meringue in a copper pan--the froth is unusually firm. My guess is that copper atoms bind the protein molecules into relatively elastic systems. In many systems, calcium forms the link between adhesive proteins.

In brain degeneration, the regions that sometimes accumulate aluminum, will accumulate other metals instead, if they predominate in the environment; calcium is found in this part of the brain in some of the Pacific regions studied by Gajdusek. Certain cells in the brain used to be called "metalophils," because they could be stained intensely with silver and other metals; I suppose these are part of the immune system, handling iron as described by Maria de Sousa. Macrophages have been proposed as an important factor in producing atherosclerotic plaques (Carpenter, et al.). There is evidence that they (and not smooth muscle cells) are the characteristic foam cells, and their conversion of polyunsaturated oils into age pigment accounts for the depletion of those fats in the plaques. The same evidence could be interpreted as a defensive reaction, binding iron and destroying unsaturated fatty acids, and by this detoxifying action, possibly protecting against calcification and destruction of elastin. (This isn't the first suggestion that atherosclerosis might represent a protective process; see S. M. Plotnikov, et al., 1994.)" Ray Peat

 

[LadyRae]

The incidence of cancer increases exponentially with age, but when random mutations are seen as the cause of cancer, aging as an essential cause of cancer is disregarded. The total collagen content of the body increases with aging, and the stiffness of that collagen also increases. The total collagen content in cancer patients is higher than in people without cancer (Zimin, et al., 2010). This suggests that the processes in the body that produce aging are acting more intensely in those who develop cancer. As the collagen accumulates in the extracellular matrix, the whole body becomes more favorable for the appearance of cancer. Ray Peat

Like I said, not a popular hormone around here!

However, I'm very happy with my results, and studies back me up

I'll be sure to let you guys know how long it takes to get cancer.

 

[LadyRae]

@Peatress
"Total collagen content". Perhaps. But not where you want it.

 

[Momma]

I am experiencing no water retention whatsoever, unlike progesterone which just made me horribly bloated, puffy and swollen.

“High estrogen and low progesterone levels can lead to water retention and bloating. Estrogen often acts as a fluid retaining hormone, while progesterone is a natural diuretic.”

Like you, the opposite was true for me when my metabolism was less than optimal or stressed.

 

[Peatress]

Like I said, not a popular hormone around here!

However, I'm very happy with my results, and studies back me up

I'll be sure to let you guys know how long it takes to get cancer.

When it comes to cancer I’m sure a little bit of estrogen on the face is the least of your worries. Do what works for you - I was simply providing information as this is a Ray Peat forum. Other members might find it useful.

 

[Momma]

Do what works for you - I was simply providing information as this is a Ray Peat forum. Other members might find it useful.

Same.

 

[LadyRae]

It's also worth noting that Dr. Peat claimed that putting progesterone on moles would make them fall off, which I tried many times and never worked.

I'm not sure he is reliable when it comes to topical skin issues...

@Momma one thing I am definitely not is stressed. And I have a very fast metabolism. I'm 5'11", 130 lbs, and I've had four kids. After trying progesterone in multiple forms and dosages I have come to the conclusion that that is not what I needed. It always made feel terrible!

@Peatress yeah, there is a lot of great info here ... Great point about doing what feels best..

 

[Peatress]

It's also worth noting that Dr. Peat claimed that putting progesterone on moles would make them fall off, which I tried many times and never worked.

I'm not sure he is reliable when it comes to topical skin issues...

@Momma one thing I am definitely not is stressed. And I have a very fast metabolism. I'm 5'11", 130 lbs, and I've had four kids. After trying progesterone in multiple forms and dosages I have come to the conclusion that that is not what I needed. It always made feel terrible!

@Peatress yeah, there is a lot of great info here ... Great point about doing what feels best..

Are you able to provide a link to where Dr. Peat said to put progesterone on moles? Thanks

 

[LadyRae]

Are you able to provide a link to where Dr. Peat said to put progesterone on moles? Thanks

No, sorry. It was in an audio interview. Anyway, it doesn't work ... He also suggested iodine, that doesn't work, either

 

[David PS]

Are you able to provide a link to where Dr. Peat said to put progesterone on moles? Thanks

It is in 4-minute segment that starts here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ1s7nkNk4Q&t=2647s

 

[Peatress]

No, sorry. It was in an audio interview. Anyway, it doesn't work ... He also suggested iodine, that doesn't work, either

Well that's because he did not say to put progesterone on moles. From memory, he talked about putting DHEA/progesterone near a mole. He explicitly warned against putting oily substances on a mole.

"I’ve always been very cautious about moles, since I think they have the potential to degenerate into metastatic cancer. Around 1978, I had been watching one on my belly, that had enlarged from an original nearly flat soft light brown mole, to a large, irregular, leathery black thing. A couple of doctors had urged me to have it removed. I happened to be experimenting with steroids, including DHEA, at the time. One night as I went to bed, I saw what looked like a maraschino cherry on my belly, with a black crumb on its top; the black thing brushed off, leaving a spot of blood on the red dome, and I realized that it was my mole. Over the next 3 days the red sphere gradually deflated, and what remained was the soft, flat light brown original mole. Every few years I have had suddenly emerging moles, of various sizes and colors. Each time I would apply some progesterone or DHEA dissolved in vitamin E to the surrounding skin. If I applied it to just one side, there would be an emigration of cells on the other side, like a moving shadow of the mole, and the mole would lose volume and become lighter in color. When I had been in Florida and stopped using thyroid because of the heat and humidity, a 2 centimeter diameter mole (jumbo black olive-like) grew in front of my ear during 2 or 3 weeks. A soon as I returned to Oregon I started using thyroid, and the mole immediately began shrinking and fading. About two weeks later, the pale remnant on a dry stalk fell off, without leaving a scar.Since then I have generally recommended just becoming slightly hyperthyroid, if a person is generally in good health with enough cholesterol for conversion to the hormones), and other people have had similar experiences with very quickly shrinking moles." Ray Peat Email exchange.

 

[Peatress]

It is in 4-minute segment that starts here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ1s7nkNk4Q&t=2647s

Thank you. I know this interview. I just wanted evidence that he said put progestrone on a mole - He acturally says an inch from the mole. See my reply above.

 

[Peatress]

No, sorry. It was in an audio interview. Anyway, it doesn't work ... He also suggested iodine, that doesn't work, either

I've never heard him suggest iodine for a mole.