Regarding Weight Loss In The Presence Of Histamine

[Coffeeandcigar]

I’m not sure where exactly this post belongs.

Hoping I can get some perspective here. I’m addicted to opiates, and with my inability to handle histamine I get awful side effects..thinning hair while high, along with scalp pain-itch. Acne that I never have when I’ve quit. Nausea and puking on minor doses.
When I attempted to quit using suboxone, I landed in ER due to dehydration from puking day and night.

One thing I notice, despite the loss of appetite..I don’t lose weight consuming very few calories.
Recently I took opiates everyday for over a month, didn’t weigh myself til the end, expecting some major weight loss. I did not lose any weight, infact gained a pound. Pretty disheartening.

I follow Peats advise and really into health despite being an addict.

I’m curious what anyone’s opinion on why I can’t seem to lose while I’m taking opiates.

My metabolism isn’t what it used to be in general. I have to watch what I eat, whereas before opiates I could lose easily.

On days of using, I tend to only eat small amount of fruit, yogurt or something starchy. Not many calories due to loss of appetite.

Is the histamine blocking the ability to burn fat?

As a side note, my current opiate of choice does not cause constipation or slow my digestion, so I’m not holding onto waste.

 

[Tarmander]

Why are you more concerned with losing weight then getting off the opiate? Seems like the addiction thing would take the cake in terms of imminent problems that need solving...or do you have to be on it for some reason?

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

Why are you more concerned with losing weight then getting off the opiate? Seems like the addiction thing would take the cake in terms of imminent problems that need solving...or do you have to be on it for some reason?

Well my life is pretty small and monotonous, opiates give me energy and spark. I currently am trying to quit, but when I can’t sleep due to withdrawals I get back on. It’s also tough to quit when sober life is depressing.

 

[Luckytype]

Well my life is pretty small and monotonous, opiates give me energy and spark. I currently am trying to quit, but when I can’t sleep due to withdrawals I get back on. It’s also tough to quit when sober life is depressing.

So whats the deal with your particular addiction? Aside from the psychological dependency, what happens if you taper in like TINY amounts per week? Like say its 100mg of whatever youre stuck on, what about like 98 mg this week, then like 97 or 96 after a week to 10 days. Surely the withdrawl is noticible but tolerable? How does this attempt to taper slowly off work?

Could you taper during the day but leave the remainder enough so you can sleep?

 

[Tarmander]

Well my life is pretty small and monotonous, opiates give me energy and spark. I currently am trying to quit, but when I can’t sleep due to withdrawals I get back on. It’s also tough to quit when sober life is depressing.

Hmm, well, that depressing life may be your way out and through. Stay on opiates long term and being overweight might be the least of your worries, although it sounds like getting off opiates will help you lose weight so why not make it your priority? I doubt you are going to get much of a response on how to lose weight when you have addiction issues.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

So whats the deal with your particular addiction? Aside from the psychological dependency, what happens if you taper in like TINY amounts per week? Like say its 100mg of whatever youre stuck on, what about like 98 mg this week, then like 97 or 96 after a week to 10 days. Surely the withdrawl is noticible but tolerable? How does this attempt to taper slowly off work?

Could you taper during the day but leave the remainder enough so you can sleep?

A tapering plan should do the trick, the tough part is the temptation to go overboard. I’ve quit every other drug with C/T and it’s done lasting harm, so a reminder to taper is appreciated.

I’ll start tomorrow with it.

An interesting thing I’ve noticed, when I take an antihistamine prior..the scalp itch is significantly reduced. Along with no vomiting.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

Hmm, well, that depressing life may be your way out and through. Stay on opiates long term and being overweight might be the least of your worries, although it sounds like getting off opiates will help you lose weight so why not make it your priority? I doubt you are going to get much of a response on how to lose weight when you have addiction issues.

Yeah, I should focus on quitting first.
It is curious tho..that histamine or inflammation can have such a profound effect on weight. It’s either this or the opiates are effecting my thyroid health.

 

[Tarmander]

Yeah, I should focus on quitting first.
It is curious tho..that histamine or inflammation can have such a profound effect on weight. It’s either this or the opiates are effecting my thyroid health.

Yeah it is intersting. It is tough sometimes to nail down exactly why things are happening...often all we can do is move in the general right direction and these issues take care of themselves.

 

[Luckytype]

Yeah, I should focus on quitting first.
It is curious tho..that histamine or inflammation can have such a profound effect on weight. It’s either this or the opiates are effecting my thyroid health.

You should do some searching and read the relationships between thyroid function and serotonin, estrogen, prolactin and histamine. It will make a lot more sense depending on what youre experiencing. At least youve identified your problem at this point, some never get there

 

[InChristAlone]

Have you tried progesterone? I can easily get off the antihistamine I'm on when I've sufficiently dosed myself with progesterone. But as soon as my cycle starts bam I need back on the antihistamine.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

Have you tried progesterone? I can easily get off the antihistamine I'm on when I've sufficiently dosed myself with progesterone. But as soon as my cycle starts bam I need back on the antihistamine.

No I haven’t thought about it..I should look into it better, as I haven’t had a menstrual cycle since my late teens.

 

[Ras]

No I haven’t thought about it..I should look into it better, as I haven’t had a menstrual cycle since my late teens.

Would naltrexone benefit you?

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

Would naltrexone benefit you?

It might, next time I see doctor I’ll be sure to mention this option.

 

[DaveFoster]

when I take an antihistamine prior..the scalp itch is significantly reduced. Along with no vomiting.

An antihistamine reduces symptoms of histamine intolerance, you don't say?

Opiate addiction tends to raise cortisol and dysregulate glucose metabolism: very undesirable outcomes.

"Opioid dependence poses significant public health risks arising from associated morbidity and mortality caused by accidents, infectious disease, and social ramifications of crime and unemployment, among other complications. Opioid use, acute and chronic, is also associated with weight gain, glycemic dysregulation, and dental pathology. The literature supporting the connection between opiate use and development of preference for sweet tastes is reviewed, and further association with dental pathology, weight gain, and loss of glycemic control are considered. We discuss the impact of sweet tastes on the endogenous opioid system as well as clinical implications for analgesia and treating the opiate-dependent patient."

Reference: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109725/

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

An antihistamine reduces symptoms of histamine intolerance, you don't say?

Opiate addiction tends to raise cortisol and dysregulate glucose metabolism: very undesirable outcomes.

"Opioid dependence poses significant public health risks arising from associated morbidity and mortality caused by accidents, infectious disease, and social ramifications of crime and unemployment, among other complications. Opioid use, acute and chronic, is also associated with weight gain, glycemic dysregulation, and dental pathology. The literature supporting the connection between opiate use and development of preference for sweet tastes is reviewed, and further association with dental pathology, weight gain, and loss of glycemic control are considered. We discuss the impact of sweet tastes on the endogenous opioid system as well as clinical implications for analgesia and treating the opiate-dependent patient."

Reference: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109725/

Yeah I wish I never started in the first place, I’m hoping abstinence alone will be enough to get my metabolism back. I vaguely remember a study on thyroid and opiates, the patient improved after several months.

Regarding the antihistamine, I was mainly surprised it could stop the scalp itch, pain and most importantly reducing hair loss. This led me to take the drug longer.

Thanks for the links and taking time to respond.

 

[DaveFoster]

Yeah I wish I never started in the first place, I’m hoping abstinence alone will be enough to get my metabolism back. I vaguely remember a study on thyroid and opiates, the patient improved after several months.

Regarding the antihistamine, I was mainly surprised it could stop the scalp itch, pain and most importantly reducing hair loss. This led me to take the drug longer.

Thanks for the links and taking time to respond.

"...when I took thyroid, being able to relax and sleep soundly… on one of my trips, talking to doctors and such, I’ve ran into a doctor who looked horrible, said he hadn’t slept for three nights. And I mentioned my experience with thyroid, and gave him 10mcg of cytomel. And the next night of my talk, he pulled me aside before introducing me, and said: “That stuff’s better than morphine!”"

- Raymond Peat, PhD

Reference: https://raypeatforum.com/community/...perature-and-pulse-kmud-2013.5560/#post-65838

"I knew someone who had been addicted to morphine and alcohol for 30 years, who was drinking quarts of beer and wine daily when he didn't have morphine, who had an opportunity for a good job if he could get sober. Starting progesterone at bedtime (and stopping the wine), he said it was the first time he didn't have a hangover in the morning. He used enough progesterone to neuter most people, but said it didn't affect his sex function; he was taking a lot of Cytomel and magnesium, but wasn't drunk again as long as I knew him, and his general health improved.

The person I described who recovered so completely took about 1000 mg of progesterone during the first night, and more than 1000 mg daily for a few weeks, but that much could make some people comatose; it's a matter of individual hormone status. I think the SSRI drugs continue to do harm, even when they reduce withdrawal symptoms."

Reference: https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges

 

[LCohen]

Why don't you start with just Cyproheptadine ? It's a antihistamine, antiserotonin.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

"...when I took thyroid, being able to relax and sleep soundly… on one of my trips, talking to doctors and such, I’ve ran into a doctor who looked horrible, said he hadn’t slept for three nights. And I mentioned my experience with thyroid, and gave him 10mcg of cytomel. And the next night of my talk, he pulled me aside before introducing me, and said: “That stuff’s better than morphine!”"

- Raymond Peat, PhD

Reference: https://raypeatforum.com/community/...perature-and-pulse-kmud-2013.5560/#post-65838

"I knew someone who had been addicted to morphine and alcohol for 30 years, who was drinking quarts of beer and wine daily when he didn't have morphine, who had an opportunity for a good job if he could get sober. Starting progesterone at bedtime (and stopping the wine), he said it was the first time he didn't have a hangover in the morning. He used enough progesterone to neuter most people, but said it didn't affect his sex function; he was taking a lot of Cytomel and magnesium, but wasn't drunk again as long as I knew him, and his general health improved.

The person I described who recovered so completely took about 1000 mg of progesterone during the first night, and more than 1000 mg daily for a few weeks, but that much could make some people comatose; it's a matter of individual hormone status. I think the SSRI drugs continue to do harm, even when they reduce withdrawal symptoms."

Reference: https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges

Very fascinating and informative.

 

[Ras]

It might, next time I see doctor I’ll be sure to mention this option.

Further information.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

I went to appointment today at an addictions clinic commonly prescribing methadone and suboxone. I had a meeting to discuss naltrexone, it’s uncommon prescription for them but they are willing to give me a supply once I’ve been sober for a week. So thanks for the suggestion, I would have never thought of naltrexone as a treatment. It definitely won’t be a low dose.