Redlightman's Red Light Device

[Pomarańcz]

Has anyone tried this and observed noticeable changes?

I typically shine on my scalp and close range for 5 minutes and notice a sensation on my scalp afterwards.

Also, I shine for about 5-10 minutes on my neck for thyroid. No noticeable sensations there.



Using it for about a month now atleast 4 days a week.

 

[marteagal]

Hi Pomarancz, I have been using RedLightMan's Red Light Device since middle of February 2016 on a daily basis. I usually shine it on my thighs, knees, calves, stomach area, sometimes hands and arms. Most days twice a day: in the morning and at night, directly before going to sleep. Each skin area is exposed to the red light for about 2-5 minutes. Testicles are treated for roughly half a minute or one minute. Every other day I also apply it on my scalp for about 2 minutes.

The only clearly noticable effect is that new hair seems to grow but due to keratinization abnormalities, the newly formed hair does not properly penetrate the skin. Experimentation with Estroban, vitamin A, and zinc has not resolved that issue yet. I can imagine that somebody without hyperkeratinization issues would benefit from the device in terms of hair growth.

I have not experienced effects on mood / relaxation (as has been reported previously by other members).
And I have no insight into possible hormonal alterations caused by the red light.

Of note, I take 0.5 - 1.5 mg methylene blue daily (most often in the form of Oxidal), expected to act synergistically while hopefully not causing too much oxidative stress.

 

[TheHound]

Has anyone tried this and observed noticeable changes?

I typically shine on my scalp and close range for 5 minutes and notice a sensation on my scalp afterwards.

Also, I shine for about 5-10 minutes on my neck for thyroid. No noticeable sensations there.



Using it for about a month now atleast 4 days a week.

Hi Pomarancz, I have been using RedLightMan's Red Light Device since middle of February 2016 on a daily basis. I usually shine it on my thighs, knees, calves, stomach area, sometimes hands and arms. Most days twice a day: in the morning and at night, directly before going to sleep. Each skin area is exposed to the red light for about 2-5 minutes. Testicles are treated for roughly half a minute or one minute. Every other day I also apply it on my scalp for about 2 minutes.

The only clearly noticable effect is that new hair seems to grow but due to keratinization abnormalities, the newly formed hair does not properly penetrate the skin. Experimentation with Estroban, vitamin A, and zinc has not resolved that issue yet. I can imagine that somebody without hyperkeratinization issues would benefit from the device in terms of hair growth.

I have not experienced effects on mood / relaxation (as has been reported previously by other members).
And I have no insight into possible hormonal alterations caused by the red light.

Of note, I take 0.5 - 1.5 mg methylene blue daily (most often in the form of Oxidal), expected to act synergistically while hopefully not causing too much oxidative stress.

which red light from the website are you both using?

 

[jyb]

Hi Pomarancz, I have been using RedLightMan's Red Light Device since middle of February 2016 on a daily basis. I usually shine it on my thighs, knees, calves, stomach area, sometimes hands and arms. Most days twice a day: in the morning and at night, directly before going to sleep. Each skin area is exposed to the red light for about 2-5 minutes. Testicles are treated for roughly half a minute or one minute. Every other day I also apply it on my scalp for about 2 minutes..

Isn't 2 minutes far too much for this lamp? As you may know, the positive effects of red light on tissue are cancelled quickly if you go over the right dose.

 

[marteagal]

which red light from the website are you both using?

I use this one: Red light device

 

[marteagal]

Isn't 2 minutes far too much for this lamp? As you may know, the positive effects of red light on tissue are cancelled quickly if you go over the right dose.

This could be the case, and it's actually hard for me to figure out the right dose. To reduce the risk of overstimulation, I use a distance of about 20-30 cm. If the device touched the skin, only a few seconds would be appropriate. I think, this is what @RedLightMan has recently said, but it also depends on whether you want to target the skin or deeper tissues.

 

[dd99]

Joe posted a really good guide to dosing red light: Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man

I have the infrared device. I can get a dose of 6J/cm2 (the top of the generally accepted healthy range of 1 to 6J/cm2) by shining it for 30 seconds directly on the skin, 60 seconds from 5cm away or for 120 seconds from 10cm.

 

[RedLightMan]

There's still a lot of unknowns in dosing of light.

While there is definitely a biphasic dose response on individual cells, using higher doses isn't necessarily going to be negative for the body in general.
The blood passing through the treatment area won't be overstimulated for example, even with long session times, and this could pass benefits to other areas of the body. Some people have noted improvements to things like erectile dysfunction from high doses on unrelated areas of the body (possibly due to the increased co2 production and dissociated NO). I remember one study where light was used to prevent scarring after a heart attack...and the light was applied to the feet!

The top layer of skin might be overstimulated by high doses, but the tissue below that (fat, muscles, nerves, etc.) will likely get benefits as it receives a more appropriate dose. Overstimulating the skin in certain areas might inadvertently improve bone marrow function in that same area, ultimately leading to healither skin....so it's complicated. It's not just a matter of 6j/cm2 dose being good, but any more cancels the effects. I think the effects just change somewhat, or maybe shift from local to systemic.

There are also studies that seem to put the J/cm2 dose system into doubt. This study on arthritis for example: Low-Level Laser Therapy for Zymosan-Induced Arthritis in Rats: Importance of Illumination Time - suggests that dose actually isn’t important, but just the time (where an appropriate strength of light is used):
“longer illumination time (10 or 100 minutes compared to 1 minute) was more important in determining effectiveness than either the total fluence../..irradiance”

...but then you can find studies showing the opposite.
So yeah, still a lot of unknowns.

 

[acrylic]

There's still a lot of unknowns in dosing of light.

While there is definitely a biphasic dose response on individual cells, using higher doses isn't necessarily going to be negative for the body in general.
The blood passing through the treatment area won't be overstimulated for example, even with long session times, and this could pass benefits to other areas of the body. Some people have noted improvements to things like erectile dysfunction from high doses on unrelated areas of the body (possibly due to the increased co2 production and dissociated NO). I remember one study where light was used to prevent scarring after a heart attack...and the light was applied to the feet!

The top layer of skin might be overstimulated by high doses, but the tissue below that (fat, muscles, nerves, etc.) will likely get benefits as it receives a more appropriate dose. Overstimulating the skin in certain areas might inadvertently improve bone marrow function in that same area, ultimately leading to healither skin....so it's complicated. It's not just a matter of 6j/cm2 dose being good, but any more cancels the effects. I think the effects just change somewhat, or maybe shift from local to systemic.

There are also studies that seem to put the J/cm2 dose system into doubt. This study on arthritis for example: Low-Level Laser Therapy for Zymosan-Induced Arthritis in Rats: Importance of Illumination Time - suggests that dose actually isn’t important, but just the time (where an appropriate strength of light is used):
“longer illumination time (10 or 100 minutes compared to 1 minute) was more important in determining effectiveness than either the total fluence../..irradiance”

...but then you can find studies showing the opposite.
So yeah, still a lot of unknowns.

Do you know if the IR device you make is appropriate for the testicles? I've tried up to 4 minutes with it on the testicles, but am worried that that might cause long-term damage to the area. Someone sent me this paper earlier that shows that a pretty low dosage of 830nm caused abnormalities in the testicular tissue.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Do you know if the IR device you make is appropriate for the testicles? I've tried up to 4 minutes with it on the testicles, but am worried that that might cause long-term damage to the area. Someone sent me this paper earlier that shows that a pretty low dosage of 830nm caused abnormalities in the testicular tissue.

Yeah, it's best to avoid infrared on the testicles. 830 *may* be okay, but visible red (like 660nm or so) has shown more promise, and less potential problems for this area. One supposed advantage of the near infrared is that it can penetrate deeper tissues, but this isn't an issue for the testicles, as they are only covered by a thin layer of skin.

RLM makes several devices, if you have one that is only visible red, it should be fine. Be wary of heat if you are using the device near the testicles, as overheating them will negate the benefits.

 

[tankasnowgod]

There's still a lot of unknowns in dosing of light.

While there is definitely a biphasic dose response on individual cells, using higher doses isn't necessarily going to be negative for the body in general.
The blood passing through the treatment area won't be overstimulated for example, even with long session times, and this could pass benefits to other areas of the body. Some people have noted improvements to things like erectile dysfunction from high doses on unrelated areas of the body (possibly due to the increased co2 production and dissociated NO). I remember one study where light was used to prevent scarring after a heart attack...and the light was applied to the feet!

The top layer of skin might be overstimulated by high doses, but the tissue below that (fat, muscles, nerves, etc.) will likely get benefits as it receives a more appropriate dose. Overstimulating the skin in certain areas might inadvertently improve bone marrow function in that same area, ultimately leading to healither skin....so it's complicated. It's not just a matter of 6j/cm2 dose being good, but any more cancels the effects. I think the effects just change somewhat, or maybe shift from local to systemic.

This makes a lot of sense. It's also possible that, over time, longer or larger doses become more beneficial. It could be as simple as the NO dissociation. A long initial dose may dissociate too much NO into blood circulation, but as red lights lowers the NO burden overall, larger doses would dissociate less NO, and not pose as many problems. Of course, wouldn't doubt other mechanisms are in play as well.

On a side note, the new bodylight device looks impressive. I might take the plunge on that soon. If you have any more info, demos, or testimonials on that one, I would sure be interested. EDIT- It also works as a grounding device?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yeah, it's best to avoid infrared on the testicles. 830 *may* be okay, but visible red (like 660nm or so) has shown more promise, and less potential problems for this area. One supposed advantage of the near infrared is that it can penetrate deeper tissues, but this isn't an issue for the testicles, as they are only covered by a thin layer of skin.

RLM makes several devices, if you have one that is only visible red, it should be fine. Be wary of heat if you are using the device near the testicles, as overheating them will negate the benefits.

Just wanted to update this, after looking into the rat study that suggested infrared could be damaging to testicles.... I'm more convinced now that it was either heat or the extreme dose that was responsible for the damage illustrated. Still think visible red is better for this purpose, but I am less concerned with infrared exposure to the testicles after looking a little deeper at that study.