Red meat and gelatin give me dry fingers and small painful bumps.

[Kaur Singh]

Thyroid.
with Me/CFS, for sure
Work at EVERYTHING concurrently / beforehand
to get out of the stress response,
reduce estrogen / serotonin / endotoxin / NO2 / FFAs / all sources of stress + frustration / the excitatory substances
improve progesterone/ CO2 production / glucose utilization / cholesterol, if low / good nutrition / the inhibitory substances
etc
etc
etc
if you can't do milk, then you do the liquid of leafy greens
always look around to what you can do with what you you can

All the Bs - B6 can be tricky for most with ME/CFS so carefully.
There are some companies with liquid forms with no no / little additives

Study what Peat has written so you can work out what you need as you go along.

You can always try glandular thyroid, easy to get over the counter, though not standardized.

I'm regularly perplexed by how individuals doing Toby's program (from Australia) manage to regain a lot of health
and they don't know about Peat's thinking.
Imagine if you paired the two...

Good luck on your journey!

 

[Dr. B]

Thyroid.
with Me/CFS, for sure
Work at EVERYTHING concurrently / beforehand
to get out of the stress response,
reduce estrogen / serotonin / endotoxin / NO2 / FFAs / all sources of stress + frustration / the excitatory substances
improve progesterone/ CO2 production / glucose utilization / cholesterol, if low / good nutrition / the inhibitory substances
etc
etc
etc
if you can't do milk, then you do the liquid of leafy greens
always look around to what you can do with what you you can

All the Bs - B6 can be tricky for most with ME/CFS so carefully.
There are some companies with liquid forms with no no / little additives

Study what Peat has written so you can work out what you need as you go along.

You can always try glandular thyroid, easy to get over the counter, though not standardized.

I'm regularly perplexed by how individuals doing Toby's program (from Australia) manage to regain a lot of health
and they don't know about Peat's thinking.
Imagine if you paired the two...

Good luck on your journey!

whats the risks with B6 for people with cfs/me?

 

[zwez]

I wonder why things like red meat, gelatin, bonebroth and such give me dry cracking skin with painfull small bumps under skin on my fingers.
I do wonder if chicken do it too, still have alot for the time even though i have not eaten much red meat last week or two.
Hcl helps some but not much.

I have the same condition as you that is caused by collagen. Mine is also triggered by other things like fiber like FOS and seaweed (high dose iodine). I believe it’s an autoimmune disorder due to a gut microbiota dysbiosis. Collagen is known to be hydrolyzed by several species of bacteria and exert prebiotic effects in the colon. For example look at this study below.

Gastrointestinal Digestion Model Assessment of Peptide Diversity and Microbial Fermentation Products of Collagen Hydrolysates - PubMed

Osteoarthritis (OA), the most common form of arthritis, is associated with metabolic diseases and gut microbiome dysbiosis. OA patients often take supplements of collagen hydrolysates (CHs) with a high peptide content. Following digestion, some peptides escape absorption to induce prebiotic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Mine has been in remission for a while (which i also attribute to reducing PUFA to 3-4g a day) but it also seems to flare up during times of high stress. Stress is also known to cause a dysfunction of the tight junctions in the gut leading to increased intestinal permeability, which would be corroboratory to the microbiome dysbiosis hypothesis.

Chronic stress-induced gut dysfunction exacerbates Parkinson's disease phenotype and pathology in a rotenone-induced mouse model of Parkinson's disease - PubMed

Recent evidence provides support for involvement of the microbiota-gut-brain axis in Parkinson's disease (PD) pathogenesis. We propose that a pro-inflammatory intestinal milieu, due to intestinal hyper-permeability and/or microbial dysbiosis, initiates or exacerbates PD pathogenesis. One factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dr. B]

I have the same condition as you that is caused by collagen. Mine is also triggered by other things like fiber like FOS and seaweed (high dose iodine). I believe it’s an autoimmune disorder due to a gut microbiota dysbiosis. Collagen is known to be hydrolyzed by several species of bacteria and exert prebiotic effects in the colon. For example look at this study below.

Gastrointestinal Digestion Model Assessment of Peptide Diversity and Microbial Fermentation Products of Collagen Hydrolysates - PubMed

Osteoarthritis (OA), the most common form of arthritis, is associated with metabolic diseases and gut microbiome dysbiosis. OA patients often take supplements of collagen hydrolysates (CHs) with a high peptide content. Following digestion, some peptides escape absorption to induce prebiotic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Mine has been in remission for a while (which i also attribute to reducing PUFA to 3-4g a day) but it also seems to flare up during times of high stress. Stress is also known to cause a dysfunction of the tight junctions in the gut leading to increased intestinal permeability, which would be corroboratory to the microbiome dysbiosis hypothesis.

Chronic stress-induced gut dysfunction exacerbates Parkinson's disease phenotype and pathology in a rotenone-induced mouse model of Parkinson's disease - PubMed

Recent evidence provides support for involvement of the microbiota-gut-brain axis in Parkinson's disease (PD) pathogenesis. We propose that a pro-inflammatory intestinal milieu, due to intestinal hyper-permeability and/or microbial dysbiosis, initiates or exacerbates PD pathogenesis. One factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

whats FOS?
what else do you to stop the autoimmunity
so gelatin/collagen is a no no for people with poor gut bacteria?

 

[zwez]

whats FOS?
what else do you to stop the autoimmunity
so gelatin/collagen is a no no for people with poor gut bacteria?

Fructooligosaccharide, a prebiotic fiber supplement that is fermented in the colon. I avoid any colon feeding prebiotics, both fiber and collagen, increased my calcium to ~2500mg a day and reduced my PUFA to 3-4g a day. This protocol seems to have worked for me, both in terms of autoimmunity and body composition.

 

[Trude]

I don't think i use that much soap, but will try a bit less.

I have DE that disappeared when i stopped using soaps (when possible) or wear gloves when washing dishes. Try that first maybe.

 

[Trude]

Thyroid.
with Me/CFS, for sure
Work at EVERYTHING concurrently / beforehand
to get out of the stress response,
reduce estrogen / serotonin / endotoxin / NO2 / FFAs / all sources of stress + frustration / the excitatory substances
improve progesterone/ CO2 production / glucose utilization / cholesterol, if low / good nutrition / the inhibitory substances
etc
etc
etc
if you can't do milk, then you do the liquid of leafy greens
always look around to what you can do with what you you can

All the Bs - B6 can be tricky for most with ME/CFS so carefully.
There are some companies with liquid forms with no no / little additives

Study what Peat has written so you can work out what you need as you go along.

You can always try glandular thyroid, easy to get over the counter, though not standardized.

I'm regularly perplexed by how individuals doing Toby's program (from Australia) manage to regain a lot of health
and they don't know about Peat's thinking.
Imagine if you paired the two...

Good luck on your journey!

Thyroid here is only possible to get though doctors, can't even get desiccated thyroid. Even if i order form another country it has a high risk of beeing stopped and taken.
I have read here on the forum and podcast and such, but nothing helps.
My biggest source of stress is my own health, not having energy to do the things i like, have to be very carefull of what i eat or i might get nausea again or my hand get so dry and painfull.
It's getting harder every day to stay happy when i feel like this.
Leafy greens come with it own issues so skeptical to try. Have enough stomach problems.

What is excitatory substances? Never heard about no2 before.

I have tried different cind of supplement with no difference.
Even small amout of magnesium gives me diarrhea.

If i found the right site about toby's program, that was not cheap, i don't have that much money.

 

[Kaur Singh]

New Page Title Here

New descriptive sentence from the article here

raypeat.com

 

[Kaur Singh]

Toby has enough free content - how to establish your baseline
pacing

usually that disposition of unhappiness
feeling miserable emotionally/mentally/physically
that nothing will work
the lack of inspiration/ganas or weariness to try something new
are happening during a crash
so that if you are like this day in and day out
you are constantly overextending yourself
in this very hypothyroid state,
going up the stairs may be enough to be too much.

name of the game is to stay within your limits
so you can avoid crashing
and slowly you start getting out of that whatever biochemistry
of excess serotonin, FFAs, etc


have you tried the things that reduce serotonin?
so that's reducing/eliminating muscle meats
cyproheptadine or ranitidine
calcium salt sugar
there's more that you can find by reading and listening to Peat.


View: https://youtu.be/6kd3RN1aZRo

 

[Trude]

Toby has enough free content - how to establish your baseline
pacing

name of the game is to stay within your limits
so you can avoid crashing
and slowly you start getting out of that whatever biochemistry
of excess serotonin, FFAs, etc

have you tried the things that reduce serotonin?
so that's reducing/eliminating muscle meats
cyproheptadine or ranitidine
calcium salt sugar
there's more that you can find by reading and listening to Peat.


View: https://youtu.be/6kd3RN1aZRo

I do pace myself most days, but sometimes not that easy.
If i take out all muscle meat i will under eat, so thats not easy. I already struggle with getting enough food.

Cypro and ranitidine not possible to get here.

Calsium i don't get much of, i have not supplemented over time, since i get worried about digesting things worse with it. I have not seen any difference when i take it.
I salt my food well. If i salt more i just get very thirsty.
Too much pure sugar just makes me feel stressed in the body.

I will check out the link and video.

FFAs you mean pufas?

 

[Kaur Singh]

maybe muscle meats don't have such effect on you
so a matter of seeing what happens to your body when you reduce/eliminate them
beef is my biggest offender.
has me crashing pretty fast the day after I consume it
triggers stress response for a few days

to make up for the loss of protein,
i ate a lot of the forever cooked mushrooms daily
there's the cooked potato juice
plus eggs - egg yolk has a lot of nutrition for when you can't eat much or cachexic
plus cheese

eventually i was able to drink milk

for calcium, you can do the liquid of cooked greens
i throw kale in while cooking the forever cooked mushrooms.
even nettles, overnight infusions.
keep looking for the options that do work -

free fatty acids
read/listen to Peat to understand that
and nitric oxide etc
and you'll come to see how these different systems are playing in you
and what you need to do at each step
like how B1 helps get sugar in
or why you need CO2 and how to get it in while until your metabolism makes enough
etc

can you get to a higher altitude place in your country?
have you tried epsom salt baths, with baking soda
bag breathing

keeping your lips shut during the day and at night,
to breathe out through your nose
keep talking to only a little at a time
helps conserve the little CO2 you are making

 

[Kaur Singh]

do you monitor your heart rate for pacing?

 

[Trude]

maybe muscle meats don't have such effect on you
so a matter of seeing what happens to your body when you reduce/eliminate them
beef is my biggest offender.
has me crashing pretty fast the day after I consume it
triggers stress response for a few days

to make up for the loss of protein,
i ate a lot of the forever cooked mushrooms daily
there's the cooked potato juice
plus eggs - egg yolk has a lot of nutrition for when you can't eat much or cachexic
plus cheese

eventually i was able to drink milk

for calcium, you can do the liquid of cooked greens
i throw kale in while cooking the forever cooked mushrooms.
even nettles, overnight infusions.
keep looking for the options that do work -

free fatty acids
read/listen to Peat to understand that
and nitric oxide etc
and you'll come to see how these different systems are playing in you
and what you need to do at each step
like how B1 helps get sugar in
or why you need CO2 and how to get it in while until your metabolism makes enough
etc

can you get to a higher altitude place in your country?
have you tried epsom salt baths, with baking soda
bag breathing

keeping your lips shut during the day and at night,
to breathe out through your nose
keep talking to only a little at a time
helps conserve the little CO2 you are making

So much mushrooms does not sound good.
I do sometimes make netle tea, i do have alot of kale in the garden, just haven't used it yet.
Potatoes don't digest very veo but i have not tried potato juice yet.

I have tried high dose b1 with no results.
I do take epsom salt baths, but not with baking soda.
I tried bag breathing before when i struggled with air hunger, but saw no difference there either so stopped it.
Unless i move it's to far away to get ro higher altitude. I live very close to the sea.

I do only nose breathe at day time, but i have sleep apnea so use cpap so no idea about night, tried mouth taping saw no difference so gave it up.
I do struggle with breating to fast like im stressed.

I don't watch my pulse, but i don't like it getting to high since it will burn me out faster then. I just go on what i feel.

 

[ursidae]

OP, have you ever gotten a tick bite?

 

[Veritas IV]

To the original poster: i get what appears to be the same when i'm in the thick of my vegetable garden for too long. If i wander in to just grab some vegetables I'm fine. However if i spend too much time in there touching leaves and stems, then my fingers would end up looking like yours. The actual vegetables do not cause it. The offending plants were tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers, onset is relatively quick after contact also..

Come to think of it, it hasn't happened in a year or two, coincidentally when i started Peating (?) I've also drastically reduced my consumption of these vegetables too btw, for whatever it's worth. Will test my tolerance again next gardening season.

And response to Ursidae's reply above: I've been bitten by wood ticks a couple of times, about 15 years ago and 5 years ago. After removal I didn't notice any particular oddities or issues, but maybe these issues take time to rear their ugly head...

 

[Trude]

OP, have you ever gotten a tick bite?

Yes a few, but never the red ring.

 

[ursidae]

Yes a few, but never the red ring.

It can cause allergy to the red meat of mammals, maybe get tested for alpha gal syndrome

 

[Trude]

It can cause allergy to the red meat of mammals, maybe get tested for alpha gal syndrome

Thanks, will try to get that test.

 

[Trude]

To the original poster: i get what appears to be the same when i'm in the thick of my vegetable garden for too long. If i wander in to just grab some vegetables I'm fine. However if i spend too much time in there touching leaves and stems, then my fingers would end up looking like yours. The actual vegetables do not cause it. The offending plants were tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers, onset is relatively quick after contact also..

Come to think of it, it hasn't happened in a year or two, coincidentally when i started Peating (?) I've also drastically reduced my consumption of these vegetables too btw, for whatever it's worth. Will test my tolerance again next gardening season.

And response to Ursidae's reply above: I've been bitten by wood ticks a couple of times, about 15 years ago and 5 years ago. After removal I didn't notice any particular oddities or issues, but maybe these issues take time to rear their ugly head...

I have not though much when i am gardening if that makes it worse, i have much of the same plants as you, i wil see next time i am in the garden if it gets worse. My already dry hands gets more dry after i have been gardening though.

 

[Vins7]

Just stop eating meat for a year or so. It might go away. Most problems do.

Why meat is so problematic in your opinion?