Red Light Therapy / LLLT Cures Hypothyroid?

OP
Strongbad

Strongbad

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I assume shining red light (660 nm) on the thyroid region will work as well as 850 nm? My thyroid gland becomes enlarged after doing so multiple times. I've probably overdone it. Time to tame my fascination with red light magic :)

No 660nm won't work since it can't penetrate deep enough to reach the thyroid. It has to be 850nm.

Overdoing red light / lllt is counterproductive, it actually increases stress hormones. It's like overtraining at the gym. It'll breakdown your body, bones, muscles etc. Let your body rest and heal sometimes.
 

Diokine

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No 660nm won't work since it can't penetrate deep enough to reach the thyroid. It has to be 850nm.

I disagree. I've had physiological effects from a 630nm LED array used over the thyroid. It's fairly effective for keeping pulse and temps up. I've also used the same array over my liver and felt effects other than skin heating, so it has to be penetrating somewhat.

Overdoing red light / lllt is counterproductive, it actually increases stress hormones. It's like overtraining at the gym. It'll breakdown your body, bones, muscles etc. Let your body rest and heal sometimes.

I agree with this. I don't use the LEDs on my thyroid anymore as I noticed tenderness at night and a "stiff" feeling thyroid, especially near the upper wings on the days I would really juice it up.
 

milk_lover

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Yeah when I increased my sessions, I think my immune system didn't work very efficiently and I caught a "cold". Also, my sleep has suffered.

How hot is 850nm? I have chinese LED party lights and I set it to red. When I get it close to my body, there is very little heat, it doesn't feel uncomfortable. Maybe there is some 850nm being emitted because I definitely feel my thyroid is in job mode.

What do you suggest for resting using red light? one day on, one day off, one day on, etc.,? How long are the sessions?
 

forterpride

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I disagree. I've had physiological effects from a 630nm LED array used over the thyroid. It's fairly effective for keeping pulse and temps up. I've also used the same array over my liver and felt effects other than skin heating, so it has to be penetrating somewhat.



I agree with this. I don't use the LEDs on my thyroid anymore as I noticed tenderness at night and a "stiff" feeling thyroid, especially near the upper wings on the days I would really juice it up.
Why did you stop altogether instead of just minimizing time? Just curious. Thanks.
 
OP
Strongbad

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I disagree. I've had physiological effects from a 630nm LED array used over the thyroid. It's fairly effective for keeping pulse and temps up. I've also used the same array over my liver and felt effects other than skin heating, so it has to be penetrating somewhat.

It may very well be, but it won't be as potent as 850nm.

Skin heating is definitely a sign of 630nm working on the skin, but do you feel the "organ" heating and working harder? There's a huge difference between those two.

When you put 850nm on thyroid, like milk_lover said, you can feel the thyroid organ "pumping" more hormones out, working extra hard.

And if you put it on liver, you should feel the liver "pumping" hormones out and feel them moving along your body.

Yeah when I increased my sessions, I think my immune system didn't work very efficiently and I caught a "cold". Also, my sleep has suffered.

How hot is 850nm? I have chinese LED party lights and I set it to red. When I get it close to my body, there is very little heat, it doesn't feel uncomfortable. Maybe there is some 850nm being emitted because I definitely feel my thyroid is in job mode.

What do you suggest for resting using red light? one day on, one day off, one day on, etc.,? How long are the sessions?

I usually do 3 times a week, put at least 48hours distance between each session to rest. My session lasts about 10-15 minutes. More than 15 minutes is usually overkill and let the body to stress-mode. 10-12 (or 13) min should be good.

I haven't done red light therapy since last year. Once I fix my gut I'll resume lllt sessions again.
 

milk_lover

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It may very well be, but it won't be as potent as 850nm.

Skin heating is definitely a sign of 630nm working on the skin, but do you feel the "organ" heating and working harder? There's a huge difference between those two.

When you put 850nm on thyroid, like milk_lover said, you can feel the thyroid organ "pumping" more hormones out, working extra hard.

And if you put it on liver, you should feel the liver "pumping" hormones out and feel them moving along your body.



I usually do 3 times a week, put at least 48hours distance between each session to rest. My session lasts about 10-15 minutes. More than 15 minutes is usually overkill and let the body to stress-mode. 10-12 (or 13) min should be good.

I haven't done red light therapy since last year. Once I fix my gut I'll resume lllt sessions again.
When I come from work stressed and tired, I get very tempted to use the red light as it very much makes me very relaxed and it gives me positive look of the world. Thanks for the tips.
 

forterpride

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@Strongbad

I just emailed Scott Roberts (the "red light man") about using the 850 nm led for thyroid purposes. This was his response. It definitely reopens this entire can of worms. I hope we can figure this out because i'm a big believer in the lights!!! lol.

Hi Scott,

May I begin by thanking you for all the time you put into your phenomenal website on red light therapy. It's a gold standard used in many forums to dive into this exciting world. I am writing you just to ask you how would we go about using the 850nm IR security light for our thyroid. On Ray Peat forum a few guys are saying 10-13 minutes 3 times a week. I just wanted to get your opinion on this since many hypo people are excited after reading the Brazilian and Russian studies where they cured hypothyroidism with red light. Thank you for your time.


SCOTTS RESPONSE

"Generally twice a day at about 15 miniutes for typical red and infrared devices is best for cells under the skin who are injured and not producing enough energy. I wold think 15 minutes once a day is better than 10 inutes 3 times a week. 10 minutes only if the skin gets uncomfortably hot on white skin. That would indicate it's a nice prowerful device."




 

forterpride

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Here is the rest of Scott's response to me.

I said "15 to 60 minutes" but this is not the "optimal range". I should have said 10 to 50 minutes. Somewhere in that range is optimal. The study abstracts are not clear enough for me to know what they did. 60 minutes is very likely overkill, but I wanted to cover the possibility that the study really did use up to 108 J/cm^2 and that someone is using a weak 25 mW/cm^2 array. That would probably be like laying on the beach 2 hours. My intuition says the goal for thyroid will be to get the equivalent of 30 minutes to 1 hour of the beach per day.

It would take 5.5 hours to get 100 J/cm^2 with a single 50 mW laser over a 10 cm^2 thyroid area, so I don't know what that study did.

My final answer (a guess): 10 to 20 minutes per day with the large $30 square 850 nm security camera illuminator on Amazon and ebay. I am biasing it towards the low end of my range because I have two of them and I know they are powerful enough to get the skin hot fairly quickly. I removed the glass cover to get more light. You'll need to cut one of the 2 leads to the small photocell that is in the front so that it will come on even when there is light (it is meant to shut off during the day). Or cover it up with thick tape.

Generally twice a day at about 15 miniutes for typical red and infrared devices is best for cells under the skin who are injured and not producing enough energy. I wold think 15 minutes once a day iis better than 10 inutes 3 times a week. 10 minuttes only if the skin gets uncomfortably hot on white skin.ÂàThat would indicate it's a nice prowerful device.
 

Wagner83

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The feedback on redlight or infrared and thyroid function is really a mixed one, has anyone else successfully (or unsuccessfully) used light on thyroid? @Strongbad are you still benefitting from it?
Someone reported on tyler's thread that himself and his family specifically enjoyed 660nm but had bad reactions to 850nm, the guy even got off his thyroid medication over time.
 

raypeatclips

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@Daniel11 Was the person who talked about his family using the red light man products.

I have personally used incandescents for over a year, but facing them at me generally, not really the thyroid, it is far too hot to get close to any specific body part.

I used an infrared illuminator aimed at my thyroid a bit and noticed nothing at all.

Following Daniels posts I purchased a red light mini and aimed it at my thyroid, just under my chin so 2-3 inches away. After a few minutes my throat felt very uncomfortable on the inside, like I was beginning to get a sore throat, it felt almost hot and dry on the inside. The light itself wasn't hot and my skin wasn't red in any way, it was on the inside. It wasn't a pleasant feeling and I stopped, the rest of the day my throat felt slightly raw, back to normal the day after.

Anyone had this experience?
 

Sucrates

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Some of the studies are a little difficult to interpret, and there's the question of power output of the device, but I think the times being discussed above could be way too long for the devices most people have (around 200mW/cm2), especially infrared devices.
People should read the studies before putting one of those devices to their thyroid for multiple minutes. I came to the conclusion that using 660nm 100mW/cm2 for 60s each side, and 850nm 200mW/cm2 for 30s each side was a good estimate.
( I could be completely wrong, as I said the language in the studies is difficult to interpret...)
 
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It may very well be, but it won't be as potent as 850nm.

Skin heating is definitely a sign of 630nm working on the skin, but do you feel the "organ" heating and working harder? There's a huge difference between those two.

When you put 850nm on thyroid, like milk_lover said, you can feel the thyroid organ "pumping" more hormones out, working extra hard.

And if you put it on liver, you should feel the liver "pumping" hormones out and feel them moving along your body.



I usually do 3 times a week, put at least 48hours distance between each session to rest. My session lasts about 10-15 minutes. More than 15 minutes is usually overkill and let the body to stress-mode. 10-12 (or 13) min should be good.

I haven't done red light therapy since last year. Once I fix my gut I'll resume lllt sessions again.

Hi Strongbad,

I was inspired to buy a red light as a result of your thread, since I also have hypothyroid symptoms. I've done a few sessions so far, and notice a post-session temperature increase of about 0.5f. So that's good. But I have a few questions I'm wondering if you could answer, based on your experience and experiments;

1) How did you determine that 48 hours was a minimum time between sessions, and that 15+ min sessions had negative effects?

2) What do you think is the best time of day to do red light on the thyroid?

I initially thought it might be best when temperature is lowest in the morning. But then I thought, maybe it's best before bed or before the last meal in order to maximize recovery during sleep. I'm curious about your thoughts.


Also anyone who has had success with red light on thyroid feel free to answer!

Regards, Johnson
 
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Bought similiar infared light as OP, put it near thyroid for 30 seconds to a 1 minute and temp hit 98.6, which i have a hard time getting pulse above 98.2-9.84 range. Wanted to do a longer session, so I put it for 2-3 minutes and I sent my thyroid to overdrive and experience 99.4 temps. Lol how insane! Pretty uncomfortable to be honest there, my heart rate went up quite a bit and felt the hyperthryoid nervousness for no reason.

I am also currently taking thyroid.

I plan to do this again but for a time of only 30 seconds. That seemed sufficient for my system.

The fact that this work kind of blows my mind, how amazing!
 

Scenes

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Been doing redlight (that red ought mini device thing) directly on thyroid holding it against skin for 5-10 mins per day for about 3-4 weeks.

Positives (within a day or two):
- slept deep
- sense of calm and control in stressful situations. I don't have any anxiety issues (apart from my hairline disappearing lol), but I notice a strong sense of calm and confidence beyond my normal levels when speaking publicly in front of large groups of people at work.
- bowels move like clockwork, first thing in morning, then either later that morning again or end of day.

Negatives:
- quite congested and wake up many mornings all blocked up, sometimes sniffling throughout the day as well. Can someone explain this?
- had the scratchy throat feeling @raypeatclips but I can't explain it. It didn't stop me and it went away, was never painful at all just a bit weird.

Unsure if positive or negative:
- first week or two I felt a weird sensation in my teeth as if they were moving, similar to the feeling from wearing braces as a teenager. Not tooth sensitivity.

A lot of stuff going on...redlight clearly pretty powerful.
 
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Great!

Been doing redlight (that red ought mini device thing) directly on thyroid holding it against skin for 5-10 mins per day for about 3-4 weeks.

Positives (within a day or two):
- slept deep
- sense of calm and control in stressful situations. I don't have any anxiety issues (apart from my hairline disappearing lol), but I notice a strong sense of calm and confidence beyond my normal levels when speaking publicly in front of large groups of people at work.
- bowels move like clockwork, first thing in morning, then either later that morning again or end of day.

Negatives:
- quite congested and wake up many mornings all blocked up, sometimes sniffling throughout the day as well. Can someone explain this?
- had the scratchy throat feeling @raypeatclips but I can't explain it. It didn't stop me and it went away, was never painful at all just a bit weird.

Unsure if positive or negative:
- first week or two I felt a weird sensation in my teeth as if they were moving, similar to the feeling from wearing braces as a teenager. Not tooth sensitivity.

A lot of stuff going on...redlight clearly pretty powerful.

Hi Scenes, great testimonial. A few quick questions for you if you'd be so kind:

- What time of day did you use the red light? (did you find a certain time was best?)

- How did you decide to use it every day, and for 5-10 mins max. Did you experiment?

- How was your pulse, temperature and potentially lab results during your experiment?

Warm regards,

Johnson B. F. R. S. Bagfoot
 

Scenes

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Great!



Hi Scenes, great testimonial. A few quick questions for you if you'd be so kind:

- What time of day did you use the red light? (did you find a certain time was best?)

- How did you decide to use it every day, and for 5-10 mins max. Did you experiment?

- How was your pulse, temperature and potentially lab results during your experiment?

Warm regards,

Johnson B. F. R. S. Bagfoot

First thing in morning and last thing at night. Can't say it's best necessarily, just figured it helps me start the day right and then helps me sleep at night. 5-10 mins each time.

Used it for longer initially, until the light was very warm and almost too hot to have near skin. I took a tip from @Daniel11 to hold it right against skin for about 8 mins.

Temperature was the other major improvement. I pay attention to my hands/feet. Never used to before peating, but after reading about it as a symptom of hypothyroid I noticed that actually my feet and hands were often cold.

Nowadays I'm walking around the house in winter in bare feet and don't feel too cold. Certainly warmer all the time, not uncomfortably so, just feel comfortable.
 

Daniel11

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First thing in morning and last thing at night. Can't say it's best necessarily, just figured it helps me start the day right and then helps me sleep at night. 5-10 mins each time.

Used it for longer initially, until the light was very warm and almost too hot to have near skin. I took a tip from @Daniel11 to hold it right against skin for about 8 mins.

Temperature was the other major improvement. I pay attention to my hands/feet. Never used to before peating, but after reading about it as a symptom of hypothyroid I noticed that actually my feet and hands were often cold.

Nowadays I'm walking around the house in winter in bare feet and don't feel too cold. Certainly warmer all the time, not uncomfortably so, just feel comfortable.

Its very helpful to shine the light in the open eyes hold light 3-5 finger widths from nose. Also very good to shine light on the testes, 7-8 min once a day, hold against the skin, this brings a lot of strength to the body and mind.

If it feels sensitive for anyone over any area, do for just 3 min or hold light farther back at first until your body adjusts, concentrated light photons in the red spectrum have a powerful beneficial effect on cellular functioning, you going to go through some positive physiological changes.
 

Constatine

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Its very helpful to shine the light in the open eyes hold light 3-5 finger widths from nose. Also very good to shine light on the testes, 7-8 min once a day, hold against the skin, this brings a lot of strength to the body and mind.

If it feels sensitive for anyone over any area, do for just 3 min or hold light farther back at first until your body adjusts, concentrated light photons in the red spectrum have a powerful beneficial effect on cellular functioning, you going to go through some positive physiological changes.
That might be in the overdose range. Have you calculated how many joules your applying? The testes can be damaged by such light at around 40 J/cm^2 or so (if I remember correctly). Under 10 J/cm^2 is probably optimal.
 

Daniel11

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That might be in the overdose range. Have you calculated how many joules your applying? The testes can be damaged by such light at around 40 J/cm^2 or so (if I remember correctly). Under 10 J/cm^2 is probably optimal.

The company i get my lights from measure in milliWatts (mW/cm²) you could convert in to joules, there is many other factors to take in to account when working with these lights. I never use light in the infrared spectrum, especially near the face or head, i only use visible light in the 600 nm - 700 nm, orange to deep red wave length range.

You do not need infrared spectrums to heal the thyroid, i used the light i link to below to completely get off NDT and reverse many years of hypothyroidism.

Getting the light through the open eyes enhances hypothalamus, pituitary and pineal gland functioning, this cascades in to numerous physiological benefits, understanding the science of sun gazing is helpful in this respect.

I have been shining the light on my testes 3-5 times a week for many months, my health has greatly improved and i have more sexual energy and strength then i have ever had, women are much more attracted to me and i feel strong and confident, many other people i know report the same results. Shinning the red light in your open eyes and on your thyroid is also very important.

This is the only light i use and recommend.

Red Light Device Mini - Red Light Man

Red Light ‘Triples Testicle Function’ Studies Show - Red Light Man
 

Constatine

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The company i get my lights from measure in milliWatts (mW/cm²) you could convert in to joules, there is many other factors to take in to account when working with these lights. I never use light in the infrared spectrum, especially near the face or head, i only use visible light in the 600 nm - 700 nm, orange to deep red wave length range.

You do not need infrared spectrums to heal the thyroid, i used the light i link to below to completely get off NDT and reverse many years of hypothyroidism.

Getting the light through the open eyes enhances hypothalamus, pituitary and pineal gland functioning, this cascades in to numerous physiological benefits, understanding the science of sun gazing is helpful in this respect.

I have been shining the light on my testes 3-5 times a week for many months, my health has greatly improved and i have more sexual energy and strength then i have ever had, women are much more attracted to me and i feel strong and confident, many other people i know report the same results. Shinning the red light in your open eyes and on your thyroid is also very important.

This is the only light i use and recommend.

Red Light Device Mini - Red Light Man

Red Light ‘Triples Testicle Function’ Studies Show - Red Light Man
Very cool experiences. Completely curing hypothyroidism is no small task. I'm using the red light man combo light. I used to use the one you use but it broke. It's a very good light.
 

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