Recent Miscarriage & feeling hopeless

Raypmom

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Hey Blossom and everyone else! Hope you are all enjoying your holidays!


I was reading your post about Diamox and how it has helped with Co2, stress hormones and estrogen. Very interesting stuff that spoke to me. I'm turning 30 this year, and I have went back to school as well and I have been up late nights reading and researching this forum. When I first joined this forum I had already changed my diet in so many ways. Strictly peating and I have experienced life. So from there I have convinced myself that I don't need much supplementing as long as nutrition is in check. Things were good for quite some time. I don't know if you remember in my first post when I introduced myself to the crowd I had mentioned I do resistant type of traing. several times a week with all the tips from ray peat as far as taking breaks in between reps etc. I read Cliffs post as well from Co2 for athletes who are taking a peat approach. So I am well aware of the things to look out for as far as exercising. I don't do endurance workouts at all. I have been using the tips from Cliff as far as before and after taking oj/milk, baking soda after workouts etc. They have worked REALLY well for me.


I recently had a miscarriage about 5 weeks or so, I took care of myself during that time. Resting, and moving around and getting adequate nutrition etc. I stopped working out, starting getting headaches and moods swings so I did order some progest e (arkofwellness) for the first time, took some topically and around gums. It really helped with getting back to feeling like myself after the miscarriage. Then I slowly went back to working out, and suddenly I can't sleep anymore at night. (very light training) a lot less than then what I use to do before and was feeling great too. But now, I have slowed down the exercising significantly 1-2 days a week. So Fitness is all around me and a part of my life. I am being as responsible as I can be. Which has worked for me for a while, I was on top of it all. Until the recent miscarriage. There was no other complications with my miscarriage, I refused a D&C and let the process happen on it's own which it did. I went back for a check up and I'm all good thanks to my body and it's natural process. Back to the problems, at night I wake up just minutes after I fall asleep feeling like I just died or something and came back to life. I woke up and looked into the mirror and my face looked as if I stopped breathing or something. The T-zone around my face and eyes and nose area look puffed up. Slightly swollen face. Three nights in a row and I just can't sleep :cry: :cry: without that feeling, it's like I would rather stay awake than sleep. The thought of going to sleep scares me because I know I would wake up gasping for air. I have never experienced anything like this. Also at that time my lips, mouth are very dry. I try going back to sleep but same thing happens until it's morning. I know it's not related to my nutrition. I eat very strictly, and make sure my protein/dinner is eaten earlier in the day. I tried milk and sugar/ice cream before bed nothing is helping. I do the carrot salad every other day as needed if not every day. I am doing the same thing I has always done, and this just seemed to just now happen. I don't do many supplements except for the progest e and niacinamide (before and after exercise) in very small amounts. I though maybe this could be due to stress? I never thought I would need thyroide supplementing because I am doing well with nutrition or at least I thought I was. I have no idea where to start as far as thyroid T3 and T4 but my gut is telling me I need it after researching on peoples experiences on this forum. If anyone can help, especially those who have had experiences such as mine I would greatly appreciate it. I just want to go back to feeling the way I did and start living again. I have back to back sinuses infections that are worse at night as well, I'm not sure if this help with what is going on. I was wondering if this is related to my co2? I was considering diomox? I started bag breathing, will do this tonight before bed. Also if you guys recommend anything else I will be willing to try it, it would be helpful if you provide me with links on where to purchase things as well. I was going to order from haidut, but I don't know what I should get that would help in my situation? I have avoided a lot of suppliments thinking I don't need them, But I am open to suggestions now more than ever. Along with sleeping, breathing issues, I have experienced a little swelling in the morning (face) and aversion to gelatin which is weird I love gelatin and adding it to my milk lattes. I still take it though, just wondering why now after all this time. Also the cold extremities have come back, temperatures are low again as well first thing waking up it's 94.5. I feel like I'm starting all over, except this time nutrition is not working it's magic one me.

A little bit about my diet
pastured raw milk
homemade cheese
gelatin
oj
gelatinous cuts of meat (oxtail, shanks)
bone broth
gelatin
sugar when needed in cofee/oj
salting as needed
grassfed liver
grassfed butter
organic potatoes
some steak
eggs (rarely)
marshmellows in latte
chocolate soy free/enjoy life brand
Lots of ice cream hagandaaz
drip coffee
But honeslly I do well with milk and oj/gelatin latte all day and then I have my dinner around 6 with eithero one of the following bonebroth, steak, oxtail, or small amount of mashed potato with butter. I pretty well and experience no weight gain, and I am active in lifting weights so that could be why I eat so much and not gain weight but I do not feel healthy right now.

Thank you all.
 
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Raypmom

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While I know that there will be no specific medical advice and I am well aware of the disclaimer, however I welcome everyone's input and hope that I will get feedback according to Ray Peats philosophies :):
 

lindsay

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Hi Fatima,

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your miscarriage..... my condolences to you.

Secondly, I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you are having following your miscarriage. It sounds as though you have done everything right and taken good care of yourself.

For what it's worth, there are many things I've found beneficial supplement wise in my health endeavors. I had an oophorectomy nearly two years ago and my body never went back to normal. Since then, nothing has worked for me aside from supplements combined with diet, and even then I struggle. But I don't have a gallbladder either, so I think this is part of the problem.

Anyhow, Cynoplus and progest-e have proven very helpful, as well as vitamin e (more recently) and Vitamin k2 - but you are eating liver, so you should be good with k2. I hate liver and the iron gives me digestive upset.

Regarding your sinus issues and sleep, I found yoga to be very beneficial in getting me breathing properly. I still have trouble at night from time to time, but it trained me to breath through my nose and is very relaxing. Perhaps trying something like meditation or alternate nostril breathing before bed could be beneficial. Or a saline nasal spray.

Most importantly, I think it is important to realize that your body might still be going through a healing process. I would imagine miscarriage is kind of a traumatic event for the body - like surgery. It can take the body many months to heal from such events. I think it's very important to let yourself go through whatever you need, both physically and emotionally.
 
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Raypmom

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Thank you Lindsy, where do I get the cynomel? How do I use it?
Also correction, I meant to say I was about 5 weeks pregnant. It happened back in early October. Sorry I should've been more clear.
 

lindsay

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Raypmom said:
Thank you Lindsy, where do I get the cynomel? How do I use it?
Also correction, I meant to say I was about 5 weeks pregnant. It happened back in early October. Sorry I should've been more clear.

I order Cynoplus from http://www.farmaciasdelnino.mx

However, if you don't have other hypothyroid symptoms, I would suggest trying to solve your troubles with food/lifestyle first - especially since it was working for you prior to the miscarriage. It might be that you are experiencing a temporary hypothyroid state following your miscarriage. I only started taking Cynoplus after months of changed diet/lifestyle without seeing any improvement in my cycle returning - I emailed Ray Peat about it and he thought it might help (but I sent him my blood work numbers and it was only after sending them to him that he recommended thyroid). It has helped somewhat - some symptoms improve while others are a consistent work in progress (I still have no period despite all my efforts - and I'm only 32 and seemingly very healthy looking).

Have you had any recent blood work with a thyroid panel?? What about estrogen and progesterone?? You might get more benefits from progesterone and pregnenolone, without needing to resort to a thyroid supplement. Vitamin e can also have some incredibly beneficial and pro-thyroid effects.

If you do decide to try Cynoplus, it's best to start small and see how you feel. I did it wrong and got stuck at a higher dose. Now I am taking less, but for awhile I could not go with less than 2 grains. Broda Barnes suggests 1 grain (1/2 a Cynoplus pill), but I would start even less to see if you find improvements.
 
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Raypmom

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Well before I did feel great with nutrition and it was also a work in progress. I had good days and bad days but never to this extent. I don't think it would hurt me to try it and to try with a very small dose like you mentioned. Blood work is something I'm considering. I hate doctors. I thought progest e has vitamine e in it? Do I need to get vitamine on it's own? I don't think I have issues with estrogen. I don't have the symptoms. Or at least the ones I know of. I also use progest e topically/orally. I get normal periods. Cycle is consistent. The one thing that is bothering me now is the part where I stop breathing at night and have trouble going back to sleep. Kinda like sleep apnea?? Ofcourse feeling cold all the time. Icy hands ana feet no matter what I do. My gut is telling my thyroid is under active. I have school right now and finals etc, so I can't afford to be sick all the time. I just may try my hand at slowly supplementing with thyroid. Do people feel they should be used together? T3-t4? Is cynoplus both.
 
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Raypmom

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Also, I no that this recent bout of feeling in a very low metabolic state is not related to my nutrition. Digestive wise I feel very good, I'm very tedious about what I put inside my body.

I do think the miscarriage and stress from school have a lot to do with it. My miscarriage happened durring the week of finals and I was just devastated, but I still had to move on with life and didn't get much rest. I will take some time off soon to completey just heal and take care of myself.
 

lindsay

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Raypmom said:
Well before I did feel great with nutrition and it was also a work in progress. I had good days and bad days but never to this extent. I don't think it would hurt me to try it and to try with a very small dose like you mentioned. Blood work is something I'm considering. I hate doctors. I thought progest e has vitamine e in it? Do I need to get vitamine on it's own? I don't think I have issues with estrogen. I don't have the symptoms. Or at least the ones I know of. I also use progest e topically/orally. I get normal periods. Cycle is consistent. The one thing that is bothering me now is the part where I stop breathing at night and have trouble going back to sleep. Kinda like sleep apnea?? Ofcourse feeling cold all the time. Icy hands ana feet no matter what I do. My gut is telling my thyroid is under active. I have school right now and finals etc, so I can't afford to be sick all the time. I just may try my hand at slowly supplementing with thyroid. Do people feel they should be used together? T3-t4? Is cynoplus both.

The fact that you had a miscarriage would suggest a hormonal imbalance. But I'm just going by what I know - of course, estrogen can cause miscarriage, however a quick google search says cortisol also can..... which is not surprising. Both are elevated under stress. So whatever you can do to create stress resistance is a good idea. Pregnenolone & progesterone should help, along with good nutrition.

When you mentioned your breathing troubles, the first thing that popped into my mind was sleep apnea. However, using an antihistamine or cultivating proper breathing should help with this. Thyroid might be beneficial as well, but I would be cautious taking it - the only reason I resorted to thyroid was because my cycle was in post menopausal range (and I'm only 32). It was my last resort to regain fertility, but I still have no menstruation. So if you are cycling normally and you don't feel bad otherwise (you are just under stress with school/life) then I would look to other things to help you manage the stress. I've found yoga very beneficial - both for my breathing and flexibility. Considering you are studying exercise science, I would definitely give yoga a try. There are lots of good scientific reasons why it is a beneficial form of exercise and relieves stress. If you are not into the spiritual side of yoga, I could recommend Tara Stiles videos to you - you can do them at home and she doesn't get into the New Age aspects of yoga so much. I really like her videos. They are challenging but calming.

If you are freezing cold all the time, this could be for a myriad of reasons. Low body fat, being hypothyroid, etc. Usually people who work out a lot and have low body fat are cold (at least that has been my experience).

Anyhow, before resorting to thyroid, why don't you email Ray Peat?? He's very helpful making alternative suggestions. Thyroid is usually a last resort with him as well. And yes, Cynoplus is a T4/T3 combo - 4:1 ratio.
 
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Raypmom

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You have been a so helpful! I just received a response from blossom as well and she has been very helpful. I think I will email him, but I also don't want to take up his time without compensating him. Does anyone know of a paypal account he might have where we can donate money for his help. Also how do I reach him? I'm use his website for all my readings but I'm not sure on how to contact him. I also thought at first I'm suffering from a hormone imbalance, but I don't have estrogen dominance symptoms (maybe I'm not educated much on this) I recently developed what they call a hypothyroid face as well, usually it was just in the mornings and it would go away after breakfast but now it's like that all day on to the next day. Puffy around face/eyes, and area between eyebrows. If you google hypothyroid face you will know what I'm talking about. It's uncomfortable state. I don't have low body fat, I'm 5"4 big bone/ muscle build. 160 pounds. I have fat, but well porportioned. PM those videos please, I will try them. I use to do yoga, untill I didn't have time for it. I'm thinking of taking 2 months off from exercise. Just don't think its benefiting me untill I get to the bottom of this. In the meantime I wonder if there is anything I can do for the puffy face? Salt in my latte/OJ but there is only so much salt ones taste buds can take. I know it's fluid retention, and it's more when you lay down at night. How do I get relief from it? Maybe someone here can chime in who's had this happen to them. I just had my carrot salad, and all that does is clean your system after breakfast. (For me anyways) part of the reason I do it every day.
 

Blossom

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Sorry I didn't see this before I replied to the pm! My family was celebrating Thanksgiving yesterday. I think taking a break from exercise for now sounds very wise. I've been thinking over a more thoughtful reply but I'm posting this now so you don't think I'm ignoring your post! Lindsay's responses were packed with much Peat wisdom and great personal experience so I'm not sure how much I can add but I will definitely read through this thoroughly and let you know if there is anything from Peat's work that I think could be helpful for your situation.
 

tara

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Lots of good ideas from Lindsay above. Here're a couple more.

I'm sorry about your miscarriage. I had an early miscarriage a few years ago too. As Lindsay said, it wouldn't surprise me if that messed with hormones. How much progest-e are you using? Have you tried increasing the amount for a while now while you are recovering? Resting from anything other than a bit of gentle movement for a while seems like a good idea to me. If you had a lot of bleeding after miscarriage, it may take a bit of extra food to build you back up.

Have you run your diet through cronometer to see if you are low on anything specific?

For the sleep/breathing specifically, have you tried holding your mouth shut mechanically when you sleep? If not, there's a description here.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4920&start=15#p58224
It doesn't solve underlying low metabolism, but it can somewhat counteract the tendency to night-time hyperventilation, which I think might be part of what's going on for you at night.

If you are cautious about supplementing thyroid, you could try the chicken neck or fish-head soup route. I drink a small amount of chickenneck stock morning and night, and I think it makes a small positive difference. Your low body temp and cold extremities are consistent with low throid function, so it might help.

Have you had any recent blood tests to help see what's going on?
 

Blossom

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There's not much to add to lindsay and tara's helpful replies. I noticed you didn't include any oysters or shrimp on your food list so it's possible you might benefit from adding one or both of these items to your menu weekly. Seafood from the sea (not farmed) is an excellent way to get important trace minerals according to Peat. I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make but I think it's worth a try and definitely can hurt.
I promise to post anything else that comes to mind that may help. Please take special care of yourself and please do not feel hopeless. I would give you a big hug right now if I could. I think it will all work out and things will improve with a little time, rest, good abundant nutrition and some supplements if necessary.
 
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Raypmom

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All this help from you ladies makes me feel hopeful again.

I have not done any recent blood work, so that's on my list. With low temperatures & cold extremities I think my gut feeling is right about my thyroid being the culprit. I spoke to someone else who knows a little about exercise from a pray perspective and they think that I may have felt good for s while from exercise, like a temporary "good feeling" when I was actually hurting myself in the process. So with the miscarriage, my body just lost the battle and from there everything went downhill. wouldn't hurt if I go ahead and order the thyroid supplement and start very SLOW and watch for changes. I've never had oysters, will add to my grocery list this week. Will do the cronometer tonight and get back with that info if it will help.

I did bleed a lot for two weeks, I also use progest e 3 drops about 3 times a day. Mostly topically. I recently started using it on my gums more often. I think it helps a lot with my moods & PMS. A lot. But it doesn't do more then that for me. Thank you ladies so much. I feel better just reading your replies.
 
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Raypmom

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Blossom/Tara & everyone! Thank you again :)
I will look at the link about breathing at night.
 

mujuro

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Very sorry to hear about your loss.

If it is any help, when researching my MTHFR polymorphism, I found that many women who were consistently miscarrying were able to carry their baby to full term after they began supplementing for their polymorphisms (L-5-MTHF, methylcobalamin, B vitamins, etc.).

Best wishes.
 
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Raypmom

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It's 330 AM and I can't fall asleep without waking up like choking. Read this article & it's sounds like what I'm going through.
“Hypothyroid people do not make enough carbon dioxide (CO2) or progesterone, and so they are in a chronic state of hyperventilation-hypocapnia (Ray Peat PhD).

Article continues :
Conclusion

Eliminating sleep apnea requires a decrease in the factors inhibiting optimal cellular respiration (estrogen, serotonin, adrenaline, low thyroid hormones, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, etc. Doing so will reduce hyperventilation and allow for an increased retention of CO2.

Using the right combination of digestible carbohydrates proteins and fats along with the appropriate supplementation (if needed) is very effective in restoring efficient energy production in the body. Normalizing cellular respiration and eliminating the negative effects of adrenaline on respiration leads to more restful sleep and the debilitating effects of sleep apnea.
 

tara

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@Raypmom, yes, I think you are on to it with this article.
Night-time mouth breathing, if you happen to have that habit, exacerbates the metabolic hyperventilation described in the article, so if you can stop that it may help retain a bit more of the CO2 you are producing, while you work on building up the CO2 production from efficient cellular respiration with nourishing food etc.
 
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Raypmom

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@tara, yes I believe that my miscarriage has put me in a hypothyroid state at the moment. During my early teen years I was on a high processed diet, then after high school I went into all the low carb diets, I was even a vegetarian for a while until I "fixed" myself on the ray peat approach to diet. So maybe this miscarriage could've reset me back into those days ? I don't know even know if hat makes sense. But I have never really used cronometer until recently and here is what I got from it.


B1 (thiamin) 0.5 mg
Vitamin E 1.4 mg (9%)
Vitamin K 7.1 (8%)
manganese 0.4 mg
Fiber 2.0 g
Fat 124.8 g (coconut oil)
Omega-3 0.3g
omega-6 1.9g


I noticed my fat is really high, I use a lot of coconut oil in my late and when ever I make an orange Julius or something. Is that too much coconut oil? Plus I use them as calories too sometimes when I have a liquid based meal like gelatin, milk, salt, coconut oil and coffee. These numbers looked really low, I'm not sure if they mean anything. I have been eating grass-fed beef liver at least 2x a week and I have developed an aversion to it so it's no longer a priority. Maybe I should work on that, sometimes even a single small cube of liver is almost impossible for me. At one point I couldn't get enough of salty liver and a hot latte. I didn't mention any rice or potatoes because I keep to a minimum but recently I have been doing so much reading and I think I'm back to point A where Ray peat says in my case (or at least I think I am) in a hypothyroid state there should be zero starch until all is healed. My digestive system is good, I thank that to the carrot salad. I have experienced a few issues with burning etc after consuming saucy foods so I don't do that anymore. I avoid anything that will upset my stomach. Today is a new day, and I have decided to start from scratch with nutrition. Going with milk, oj, coconut oil, sugar, and some lean beef and some good cheese for a few days to see how I feel. The swelling is still there again today, just in my face and around my eyelids. I read some where that I may need more salt for fluid retention. Is my puffiness related to fluid retention ? Should I drink salted water ?
 
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Raypmom

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@mujuor Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. It's my first miscarriag, I think I may have lost it due to stress. I have 3 other childeren. 2 girls and 1 one boy. 2,4,5 yrs old.
 

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