brightside
Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2019
- Messages
- 354
Small Update
I've been messing around with the fatty alcohols, specifically octanol (C8) and nonanol (C9). They are interesting compounds that work well. The major downside or complaint that I have with them is their smell. It sucks that this is a potential problem, but it is what it is. Both of them smell fatty and citrusy. The citrus smell is fine, but the fatty smell is off putting at higher concentrations. With 5% nonanol in a lotion, I can smell it right away, and even large amounts of Limonene and Eucalyptol aren't enough to overpower it. It's not a terrible smell, but it isn't super pleasant either. The closest that I can compare it to is citrus scented Clorox wipes, but also with a fatty smell. To go around this, I will use 2% instead of 5%, since I think only the concentration of the oil phase matters. Technically, the water shouldn't be included since it evaporates or gets absorbed into the skin or clothes and therefore shouldn't impact the penetration. If my oil phase is 40% then 2% of nonanol would be enough to create a 5% concentration in the oil phase.
Regarding the general efficacy of the lotion, I think using nonanol creates an powerful lotion. Unfortunately, the best data that I have to go off of is just my subjective experience, but it's the best I have at the moment. Alright, so how does it perform? Well, first, I wasn't applying to the scrotum anymore but on random body parts. (I will explain the reasoning for this later) It took four hours to feel anything, and 6 hours for it to actually be noticeable. The effects kept climbing, but eventually I had to go to sleep. That was day 1. Day 2 and 3 I had digestive problems and very little sleep, so nothing to report from those days. On the morning of Day 3 I used 100mg and now it's Day 4 and I still feel the effects over 24 hours later. Both this, and the very slow peak suggests to me that this could be applied only once a day. Obviously, I need to give it a fair and long trial, but since I'm constantly changing the formula It's impossible to do that.
This specific lotion is 10% and has an oil phase of 44%. Despite such a large oil phase, the lotion is thin and almost watery. This is due to the fatty alcohols which seem to disrupt the normal emulsification and make it thinner. Interestingly, the fatty alcohols also help a little bit with solubilization.
I was hypothesizing earlier that perhaps the micelles themselves increase the solubility by incorporating the hormone into the lipid layer. I don't know if this is true or not, but almost none of my oil phases are capable of holding the hormone concentrations on their own. Once the oil phase cools, the hormone crashes. Yet, if I form an emulsion, there is no signs of crashing once it is applied to the skin. To further support this, using nonanol, I was able to make a 15% DHEA lotion with no problem, and because of the nonanol it wasn't too thick despite having a giant oil phase of 52%. I think I could push this further, and make a 20% DHEA lotion.
Since Stearyl alcohol thickens and stabilizes, I think it's fair to assume that octanol thins and de-stabilizes. If this is the case, then using too much will probably result in separation after some time. I think there's probably some kind of balance to be reached, but these lotions have yet to separate after a few days, which is a good sign. Anyways, I think that the fatty alcohols are incorporating into the lipid layer, perhaps with the hormone, and creating different or just weaker micelles. This is kind of a good thing, since spreading on the skin is easier, and it goes clear very quickly. (instead of having micelles hang around for a long time from my other batches). The fatty alcohols are helping create a better lotion which spreads easier, holds more, and penetrates better. I think if the problem of smell can be managed(maybe by using longer, different smelling fatty alcohols), medium chain fatty alcohols will help create better lotions.
I've been messing around with the fatty alcohols, specifically octanol (C8) and nonanol (C9). They are interesting compounds that work well. The major downside or complaint that I have with them is their smell. It sucks that this is a potential problem, but it is what it is. Both of them smell fatty and citrusy. The citrus smell is fine, but the fatty smell is off putting at higher concentrations. With 5% nonanol in a lotion, I can smell it right away, and even large amounts of Limonene and Eucalyptol aren't enough to overpower it. It's not a terrible smell, but it isn't super pleasant either. The closest that I can compare it to is citrus scented Clorox wipes, but also with a fatty smell. To go around this, I will use 2% instead of 5%, since I think only the concentration of the oil phase matters. Technically, the water shouldn't be included since it evaporates or gets absorbed into the skin or clothes and therefore shouldn't impact the penetration. If my oil phase is 40% then 2% of nonanol would be enough to create a 5% concentration in the oil phase.
Regarding the general efficacy of the lotion, I think using nonanol creates an powerful lotion. Unfortunately, the best data that I have to go off of is just my subjective experience, but it's the best I have at the moment. Alright, so how does it perform? Well, first, I wasn't applying to the scrotum anymore but on random body parts. (I will explain the reasoning for this later) It took four hours to feel anything, and 6 hours for it to actually be noticeable. The effects kept climbing, but eventually I had to go to sleep. That was day 1. Day 2 and 3 I had digestive problems and very little sleep, so nothing to report from those days. On the morning of Day 3 I used 100mg and now it's Day 4 and I still feel the effects over 24 hours later. Both this, and the very slow peak suggests to me that this could be applied only once a day. Obviously, I need to give it a fair and long trial, but since I'm constantly changing the formula It's impossible to do that.
This specific lotion is 10% and has an oil phase of 44%. Despite such a large oil phase, the lotion is thin and almost watery. This is due to the fatty alcohols which seem to disrupt the normal emulsification and make it thinner. Interestingly, the fatty alcohols also help a little bit with solubilization.
I was hypothesizing earlier that perhaps the micelles themselves increase the solubility by incorporating the hormone into the lipid layer. I don't know if this is true or not, but almost none of my oil phases are capable of holding the hormone concentrations on their own. Once the oil phase cools, the hormone crashes. Yet, if I form an emulsion, there is no signs of crashing once it is applied to the skin. To further support this, using nonanol, I was able to make a 15% DHEA lotion with no problem, and because of the nonanol it wasn't too thick despite having a giant oil phase of 52%. I think I could push this further, and make a 20% DHEA lotion.
Since Stearyl alcohol thickens and stabilizes, I think it's fair to assume that octanol thins and de-stabilizes. If this is the case, then using too much will probably result in separation after some time. I think there's probably some kind of balance to be reached, but these lotions have yet to separate after a few days, which is a good sign. Anyways, I think that the fatty alcohols are incorporating into the lipid layer, perhaps with the hormone, and creating different or just weaker micelles. This is kind of a good thing, since spreading on the skin is easier, and it goes clear very quickly. (instead of having micelles hang around for a long time from my other batches). The fatty alcohols are helping create a better lotion which spreads easier, holds more, and penetrates better. I think if the problem of smell can be managed(maybe by using longer, different smelling fatty alcohols), medium chain fatty alcohols will help create better lotions.