Really Tired After Eating, Has Anyone Resolved This For Himself?

[Nekron]

Hi everyone, a bit about my nutrition history first:

I switched from average shitty eating to keto a few years ago and I was actually feeling good (high energy, joint pain gone, weightloss all that stuff). However there were a few problems with it, I always had carb cravings, I had issues with constipation (when mainly eating meat and cheese) or even worse shits (when adding green veggies for fiber and other health reasons) and lastly I never enjoyed eating that much meat. I wanted my protein to come from dairy sources, but except for cheese that always meant too many carbs.

So when I found Peats ideas and articles, I was instantly hooked. Fruits, Dairy (could even keep cheese), no fishoil, less meat. It was perfect, and I legitimatly felt great going into every meal. However after a few days I got incredibly tired after each meal and started feeling foggy. It didnt go away after like a month and I needed my brain back for study, so I went back to Keto. Same pros, same cons.

Now I want to give this another more educated try. I got a complete thyroid check while on peat and while on keto (total t3, t4 and tsh) and all numbers are pretty much straight in the middle of the recommended range.

As for my typical foods on peat (3 meals a day morning, lunch, early evening):
- fruits (watermelon, kiwi, orange juice, dried dates, grapes, berries)
- coffee (black, I did neither the keto bulletproof stuff, nor a lot of sugar)
- cheese (old gouda, cheddar mainly)
- yoghurt and quark (german thing somewhat comparable to yoghurt)
- milk 1,5% (or sometimes 3,5% if I could get fresh unpasteurized milk from local farmers market)
- corn waffles (not sure if thats a thing everywhere, its just ricewaffles, but made with corn)
- grassfed butter
- coconut milk
- rarely locally made icecream


Maybe I can get some input on what might be the cause here or what Im doing wroing, because I love the way of eating, but cant stand to live with steady brainfog and being tired constantly.

€: The main thing im considering right now is adding the fruit and sugar in general more slowly, like upping sugar by 50g per week and reducing fat accordingly to see how it goes.

 

[Tarmander]

A mix of things really affects this. To a certain extent you must get "used" to eating this way. A friend of mine who did IF and some crazy diet just started eating three meals a day. He was constantly bloated, tired, and crappy feeling. He has been recovering now for a few months and he sent me a pic of what he was eating and it was a lot more then when he first started. He has also built up a tolerance to more food and does not get as much bloating, etc.

After that it is a matter of food substitutions and paying attention to what feels like what. In your list above, coffee and fruit have the most potential to cause problems. Try different types of coffee, and do one fruit at a time to see its effect. Sometimes just one fruit that doesn't agree with you can throw the whole thing off. For me, bananas are kind of a nightmare that can effect all the other foods I am eating through what they do to my digestion. Finding these things is a big part of getting the nuance of experience that is so valuable.

 

[tankasnowgod]

One thing you may want to check is your iron levels. I used to have really high iron levels, and I would get the "carb crash" after higher carb meals (they were mostly starch based). After getting de-ironed, I didn't really get tired after eating carbs anymore.

 

[jyb]

Maybe I can get some input on what might be the cause here or what Im doing wroing, because I love the way of eating, but cant stand to live with steady brainfog and being tired constantly.

For me these are the typical signs that the food is bad for health and not useful. When you find a diet that does not leave you brainfoged after a meal, you will love eating just as much but life will become more pleasant too.

 

[Jayfish]

I would say that ita a mix of having insulin resistance and some sort of bacterial overgrowth that is loving the carbs. Both are very common on keto/kow carb.

The only real fix is to get your metabolism up. Some weight lofting can help get more insulin sensitive as well as limiting the amount of fat you eat with carbs. For the overgrowth, common Ray Peat things would be carrot, bamboo shoot, cascara sagrada, antibiotic. Also just avoide easily fermentable carbs like unripe/high pectin fruits, high fiber and starchs.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I experienced this more with low carb high fat diets. higher carb lower fat meals don't usually do this for me. And smaller meals in general also seem to help

 

[natedawggh]

Hi everyone, a bit about my nutrition history first:

I switched from average shitty eating to keto a few years ago and I was actually feeling good (high energy, joint pain gone, weightloss all that stuff). However there were a few problems with it, I always had carb cravings, I had issues with constipation (when mainly eating meat and cheese) or even worse shits (when adding green veggies for fiber and other health reasons) and lastly I never enjoyed eating that much meat. I wanted my protein to come from dairy sources, but except for cheese that always meant too many carbs.

So when I found Peats ideas and articles, I was instantly hooked. Fruits, Dairy (could even keep cheese), no fishoil, less meat. It was perfect, and I legitimatly felt great going into every meal. However after a few days I got incredibly tired after each meal and started feeling foggy. It didnt go away after like a month and I needed my brain back for study, so I went back to Keto. Same pros, same cons.

Now I want to give this another more educated try. I got a complete thyroid check while on peat and while on keto (total t3, t4 and tsh) and all numbers are pretty much straight in the middle of the recommended range.

As for my typical foods on peat (3 meals a day morning, lunch, early evening):
- fruits (watermelon, kiwi, orange juice, dried dates, grapes, berries)
- coffee (black, I did neither the keto bulletproof stuff, nor a lot of sugar)
- cheese (old gouda, cheddar mainly)
- yoghurt and quark (german thing somewhat comparable to yoghurt)
- milk 1,5% (or sometimes 3,5% if I could get fresh unpasteurized milk from local farmers market)
- corn waffles (not sure if thats a thing everywhere, its just ricewaffles, but made with corn)
- grassfed butter
- coconut milk
- rarely locally made icecream


Maybe I can get some input on what might be the cause here or what Im doing wroing, because I love the way of eating, but cant stand to live with steady brainfog and being tired constantly.

€: The main thing im considering right now is adding the fruit and sugar in general more slowly, like upping sugar by 50g per week and reducing fat accordingly to see how it goes.

Your sugar oxidation is in the shitter. When the body loses the ability to oxidize sugar efficiently it shifts toward fatty acid oxidation. When you switch your diet to a Peat/sugar-centric one, there are two things:

Starch/glucose carbs induce high insulin secretion, because your body cannot utilize glucose well and insulin is triggered to store the high glucose levels into fat storage (and then fat burning). This can also induce severe hunger cravings. Using niacinamide and aspirin around meals containing glucose will help to mitigate, but not eliminate, this effect.

Fructose can still be used as fuel in this state, but will not make the metabolic rate run fast without the addition of sodium. Fructose inhibits insulin, so Fructose and sodium in any form in addition to or in place of meals containing glucose will help to reverse the fatigue experienced by glucose consumption. Corn is terrible for your metabolism and should be eliminated, along with other grain starches. Lactose is part glucose so milk can sometimes have this tiredness effect if there is no fructose or other metabolic aid like niacinamide/aspirin/etc.

 

[tara]

Now I want to give this another more educated try. I got a complete thyroid check while on peat and while on keto (total t3, t4 and tsh) and all numbers are pretty much straight in the middle of the recommended range.

Recommended by who? My dr seemed to be happy with my TSH being near the middle of the standard range, but that's quite a bit higher than Peat reckons is consistent with good health for most people. If you want you can post numbers.

In addition to the ideas above, a couple more thoughts ...

Do you have good refreshing sleep at night normally? Sometimes the effect of eating more carbs after restriction is to lower stress hormones enough to get well into 'rest and repair' mode - at which point sleep may be really useful, rather than a sign that you are doing something wrong. If you can work it into your schedule, a siesta might be worth a try?

Could be something specific in the new diet that is allergenic or irritating for you personally. For me, brain fog is the main reason I back off eating as much dairy as I'd like. It's great food if you can use it, but a few of us have trouble with it. Bananas seem to mess with me a bit if I eat too many of them too.

Making the change gradual seems reasonable to me, paying attention to cravings and how you feel.

 

[Nekron]

Thanks everyone for the input, theres quite a few things I have to consider.

For one, Peats hypothesis of intestinal overgrowth because of slow peristalsis certainly fits my dietary history. The daily carrot will be integrated, any other tips for this?
Second point is sleep, I can fall asleep easily, I have a deep sleep but I usually wake up very tired and need 15 minutes before I can get up even after 8 hours of sleep, so that is something to look out for.

Regarding problems with dairy, there shouldnt be a huge change, because the amount of milk I drink is pretty small, less than a glass every day. And cheese doesnt have an effect on fatigue, as I liberally eat it on keto and no such effect occurs (though it might have something to do with the "keto constipation").

 

[docall18]

Possibly the improved diet is lowering chronically high FFA's and cortisol/adrenaline. Maybe try niacinamide, B1 and coffee to start using sugar better and to get your energy up. Also, lots of sugar, especially with coffee.

 

[youngandold]

It depends on how fast you get fatigued after eating.

If it takes 1 hour or more
get your blood glucose checked
if low or borderline low then your body makes too much insulin

if it happens really fast
then you have too low metabolism as your body can't handle the (normal) extra energy required and serotonin released during digestion.

Many people feel very hypothyroid with midrange labs.
to be honest you can remain so no matter what you eat

Try some T3 to see if it helps

 

[Wagner83]

I do notice the same happens with a good amount of milk (even if I eat 6 oranges and coffee with it), but so far it seems starch (even white rice and potatoes) are sucking the life out of me. I do consume a good amount of fat with it (coconut oil) as well as sugar and fruits but it's still the same. I can get extremely tired, moody etc...

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Going low fat cured this for me.

 

[Wagner83]

Going low fat cured this for me.

I've seen some of your posts bashing fat, how long did it take before you could notice the changes in energy? When you say low fat what does that mean (how low and what is your diet like)? I get about 3-4 tablespoons of coconut oil , 1 L 1.5 % milk, cottage cheese, a couple of eggs and sometimes beef.

I get very moody, I have this ongoing sedation/lethargy which is incredibly annoying and has been the definition of what I am for ages, no drive to do anything etc.. I tried pasta yesterday and cortisol upon waking up was way higher , I feel nauseous too .

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I've seen some of your posts bashing fat, how long did it take before you could notice the changes in energy? When you say low fat what does that mean (how low and what is your diet like)? I get about 3-4 tablespoons of coconut oil , 1 L 1.5 % milk, cottage cheese, a couple of eggs and sometimes beef.

I get very moody, I have this ongoing sedation/lethargy which is incredibly annoying and has been the definition of what I am for ages, no drive to do anything etc.. I tried pasta yesterday and cortisol upon waking up was way higher , I feel nauseous too .

Right away. It just means low, not measured, just aware of how much direct fat. I eat starched based like starchy roots and rice mostly, with fruit as available. Boiled/steamed starch is the best way, completely different than baked and fried starch Fried starch is toxic, even if fried in coconut oil. I eat only lean metas like beef, bison, duck, and rabbit about once per week. I eat a lot of steamed or boiled greens for calcium and magnesium and other nutrients. Coconut fat is my only source of fat. I think about 1 tablespoon per day is enough. Any more is too much. Flour products like pasta are best avoided if you're sensitive. I bash fat because fat is the main problem is peoples diets. People consume fat in two main forms: vegetable cooking oils and dairy fat. Olive oil is the third form but pufa oil and saturated dairy fat are the two most consumed fats. People eat too much of both and they are the main drivers of obesity, type two diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

 

[Wagner83]

Right away. It just means low, not measured, just aware of how much direct fat. I eat starched based like starchy roots and rice mostly, with fruit as available. Boiled/steamed starch is the best way, completely different than baked and fried starch Fried starch is toxic, even if fried in coconut oil. I eat only lean metas like beef, bison, duck, and rabbit about once per week. I eat a lot of steamed or boiled greens for calcium and magnesium and other nutrients. Coconut fat is my only source of fat. I think about 1 tablespoon per day is enough. Any more is too much. Flour products like pasta are best avoided if you're sensitive. I bash fat because fat is the main problem is peoples diets. People consume fat in two main forms: vegetable cooking oils and dairy fat. Olive oil is the third form but pufa oil and saturated dairy fat are the two most consumed fats. People eat too much of both and they are the main drivers of obesity, type two diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

I eat mostly well steamed, boiled or mashed potatoes or rice and feel like absolute crap afterwards too . Steamed leafy greens (well mostly spinach) are very beneficial to me. What do you add to your potatoes and rice to eat them if you barely use any fat? How much proteins do you get in a day? Do they all come from potatoes or is 0% fat milk ok? How much calories? How are things like voice, libido, muscle tone etc.. if I may ask?

 

[raypeatclips]

@Wagner83 I felt horrific on potatoes and rice with no fat. Now with much more fat I am doing better. Experiment yourself, if you feel awful, something isn't right.

 

[EIRE24]

@Wagner83 I felt horrific on potatoes and rice with no fat. Now with much more fat I am doing better. Experiment yourself, if you feel awful, something isn't right.

In what way did you feel awful? How much fat do you eat now?

 

[raypeatclips]

In what way did you feel awful? How much fat do you eat now?

Constantly hungry, very bad anxiety, adrenaline rushes, constipation. Not sure, I haven't counted, around 60-80g I'd imagine. I have put weight on but have none of the issues mentioned before anymore.

 

[EIRE24]

How much weight did you put on? I'm guessing you increased fat but kept the amount of carbs the same. I think constipation is definitely a problem on low fat.