Reactive Dog - Reducing Stress protocol?

[Jayvee]

Hi,

Hoping someone here could help. I adopted a dog last August, She was 'rescued' from Romania and bought to the UK (in not very nice conditions I have since learned) where she was spaded and spent a few weeks in a rehoming centre. On reflection, I can see this was possibly unethical and she has gone through a whole lot of stress (unbeknown to me before adopting or doing any research). She is understandably a reactive dog and seemingly very high stress, I have put her on a 'peaty' style diet (fruit, gelatine dog food, calcium). Can anyone recommend some things that are safe for her that might help bring down the cortisol levels. I think the fact she was spaded has a lot to do with this too (could this be causing a major hormone imbalance? and if so what can I do to mitigate this? Progesterone?).

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Does she have a good place to sleep?

Give her a high Taurine cut of meat like a big raw Steak. Some beef liver would be appreciated aswell by the canine.

 

[Hans]

A little bit of progesterone and thyroid works great.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Does she have a good place to sleep?

More of this... When I got my dog out of the shelter I layed out a dog sleeping mattress, covered her with a not so thick soft blanket, and she slept straight for 3 days. Family friends came, couldn't be bothered. Looking back she was probably dead tired, a soft and spacious place to sleep the first time in months.
After a month she came out of her shell and her true personality showed. We didn't her a single noise from her the first month, now she barks at flies... She's still a very, very shy dog in general when put in situations she does not feel comfortable.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

A little bit of progesterone and thyroid works great.

For a dog?

 

[Hans]

For a dog?

Yes ofc. Just 1 drop from the products from Idealabs.

 

[Jayvee]

Thanks, She is a great sleeper (possibly too good) her biggest issues are around other dogs and background noises (some of this could be just natural drives as she is more wolf than dog).

Chamomile tea with honey has helped make these signs of stress less prevalent which to me shows their is some progress still to make. @Hans do you think Tyromix in the evening?

 

[dogtrainer]

Hi. I’m a dog trainer and work with a lot of stressy dogs like yours. I would treat this from a training/behavioral perspective first, at the same time as introducing the dog to a species appropriate diet. Most kibbles and pet food are complete junk. If you have access to/can afford a high quality fresh food delivery service like Nom Nom or Farmer’s dog, I would opt for these over any commercial food. Or you can make your own. The website, Balance IT has a macro/micronutrient calculator that allows you to plug in grocery store ingredients and will spit out a suitable recipe for you. They also sell a branded multivitamin product that can fill in any nutritional gaps. I suppose you go even more extreme and weigh every vitamin/mineral powder but you would need a mg scale and tons of back stock of different supplements. The good thing is it doesn’t have to be tasty, most dogs will eat anything.

the most important thing IMHO, is hitting proper calcium ratios and rounding out muscle meats with anti-inflammatory amino acids in the form of gelatin, collagenous parts of animals.
From a training perspective, the best thing you can do for this dog is teach the dog some foundational skills that make life easier and more predictable for the dog. Give him a crate or cage to sleep in, and don’t let him feel responsible for protecting the house. Most dogs love a private crate as a respite from the world. For guests/people coming near him, advocate for coexistence first and have your guests ignore him. Show him that the guests inside your home will stay in their lane and not try to touch him. Show him that you will automatically make space for him, with any dogs he encounters. If he’s not into interacting with dogs don’t force him.

Watch YouTube videos on how to teach a solid down stay, recall and heel command. you can teach those three things reliably you will notice a difference in stress levels. A lot of the stress in pet animals comes from never having developed impulse control. In the wild, impulsivity is rewarded, and dogs tend to flee from stress. In a pet dog home, they can’t just flee or bite when they’re uncomfortable. They live indoors, or in a backyard, and the walls prevent them fleeing. So they have to figure out some middle road that doesn’t involve impulsivity and adrenaline. Being blocked from their normal fight/flight response is stressful, but with proactive handling and training the dog can be made more resilient and, in most cases, comfortable within the parameters of a family home. With my client dogs, I have found the Behavioral Down exercise by Mark McCabe to be game changing for those stressy dogs. You can google this.

obedience training that includes some duration stay commands help expedite the process by teaching the dog to physically be still in a relaxed position while it watches other exciting things go on. It also puts you in a leader-follower relationship with the dog, which is important. From this leader-follower dynamic, you now have the authority to correct inappropriate barking. Canines are receptive to this type of correction, and you will often see these corrections between two pet dogs. If you ever walk by a fence where two dogs are barking at pedestrians, one will often try to correct the other, as a way to say “hey, cool off you little punk. I’m in control of the perimeter.”

My best tip for inside the home is to let the dog drag a leash around, and get him used to moving around the rooms and yard with you on a leash. This way, if you call him, you will always have a way to enforce what you asked, and before long the dog will just come as force of habit. The biggest thing is not letting him practice the unacceptable behavior of ignoring your “come” command. Most of the nervous/reactive dogs I encounter completely let go of their reactive tendencies within a week of living a very structured lifestyle where I am making all their choices for them. The reactive barking at noises outside, the barking at other dogs on the sidewalk, all go away once the dog has accepted the leader-follower dynamic. It’s quite striking what a solid human relationship can do for the animal!

 

[Jayvee]

Hi. I’m a dog trainer and work with a lot of stressy dogs like yours. I would treat this from a training/behavioral perspective first, at the same time as introducing the dog to a species appropriate diet. Most kibbles and pet food are complete junk. If you have access to/can afford a high quality fresh food delivery service like Nom Nom or Farmer’s dog, I would opt for these over any commercial food. Or you can make your own. The website, Balance IT has a macro/micronutrient calculator that allows you to plug in grocery store ingredients and will spit out a suitable recipe for you. They also sell a branded multivitamin product that can fill in any nutritional gaps. I suppose you go even more extreme and weigh every vitamin/mineral powder but you would need a mg scale and tons of back stock of different supplements. The good thing is it doesn’t have to be tasty, most dogs will eat anything.

the most important thing IMHO, is hitting proper calcium ratios and rounding out muscle meats with anti-inflammatory amino acids in the form of gelatin, collagenous parts of animals.
From a training perspective, the best thing you can do for this dog is teach the dog some foundational skills that make life easier and more predictable for the dog. Give him a crate or cage to sleep in, and don’t let him feel responsible for protecting the house. Most dogs love a private crate as a respite from the world. For guests/people coming near him, advocate for coexistence first and have your guests ignore him. Show him that the guests inside your home will stay in their lane and not try to touch him. Show him that you will automatically make space for him, with any dogs he encounters. If he’s not into interacting with dogs don’t force him.

Watch YouTube videos on how to teach a solid down stay, recall and heel command. you can teach those three things reliably you will notice a difference in stress levels. A lot of the stress in pet animals comes from never having developed impulse control. In the wild, impulsivity is rewarded, and dogs tend to flee from stress. In a pet dog home, they can’t just flee or bite when they’re uncomfortable. They live indoors, or in a backyard, and the walls prevent them fleeing. So they have to figure out some middle road that doesn’t involve impulsivity and adrenaline. Being blocked from their normal fight/flight response is stressful, but with proactive handling and training the dog can be made more resilient and, in most cases, comfortable within the parameters of a family home. With my client dogs, I have found the Behavioral Down exercise by Mark McCabe to be game changing for those stressy dogs. You can google this.

obedience training that includes some duration stay commands help expedite the process by teaching the dog to physically be still in a relaxed position while it watches other exciting things go on. It also puts you in a leader-follower relationship with the dog, which is important. From this leader-follower dynamic, you now have the authority to correct inappropriate barking. Canines are receptive to this type of correction, and you will often see these corrections between two pet dogs. If you ever walk by a fence where two dogs are barking at pedestrians, one will often try to correct the other, as a way to say “hey, cool off you little punk. I’m in control of the perimeter.”

My best tip for inside the home is to let the dog drag a leash around, and get him used to moving around the rooms and yard with you on a leash. This way, if you call him, you will always have a way to enforce what you asked, and before long the dog will just come as force of habit. The biggest thing is not letting him practice the unacceptable behavior of ignoring your “come” command. Most of the nervous/reactive dogs I encounter completely let go of their reactive tendencies within a week of living a very structured lifestyle where I am making all their choices for them. The reactive barking at noises outside, the barking at other dogs on the sidewalk, all go away once the dog has accepted the leader-follower dynamic. It’s quite striking what a solid human relationship can do for the animal!

Brilliant answer ? I really appreciate that. I will do all this and report back. I have been trying to be dominant and not make her feel like she has to protect but more foundational training I think. I think I need to up the calcium more from a dietary perspective, do you have any preferred calcium source for dogs? I was doing bone meal but it’s too expensive to keep up... if it’s worth it though I’ll try carry on. Thank you!!!

 

[dogtrainer]

Brilliant answer ? I really appreciate that. I will do all this and report back. I have been trying to be dominant and not make her feel like she has to protect but more foundational training I think. I think I need to up the calcium more from a dietary perspective, do you have any preferred calcium source for dogs? I was doing bone meal but it’s too expensive to keep up... if it’s worth it though I’ll try carry on. Thank you!!!

 

[LucyL]

For a dog?

Fwiw, my dog loves progest e - she always wants to lick my fingers after i apply some, and sometimes I rub a drop or two on her gums and she seems to like it.

 

[Mito]

If you have access to/can afford a high quality fresh food delivery service like Nom Nom or Farmer’s dog

Are you aware of any service like this that allows customization of the the recipe, for example, “hold the fish oil”?

 

[Jayvee]

Fwiw, my dog loves progest e - she always wants to lick my fingers after i apply some, and sometimes I rub a drop or two on her gums and she seems to like it.

How much Progest-E do you give her?

 

[LucyL]

Not much, just a drop or two maybe every couple weeks ... but she's not spayed. When (if) she gets spayed then I would give her some on a more regular basis.
@LeeLemonoil is a vet - maybe he has an idea how much progesterone might be useful for a spayed dog.

 

[Regina]

Brilliant answer ? I really appreciate that. I will do all this and report back. I have been trying to be dominant and not make her feel like she has to protect but more foundational training I think. I think I need to up the calcium more from a dietary perspective, do you have any preferred calcium source for dogs? I was doing bone meal but it’s too expensive to keep up... if it’s worth it though I’ll try carry on. Thank you!!!

+1 to "dogtrainer" (who never used the word "dominant").
One of my favorite lines was, "... and don’t let him feel responsible for protecting the house."
It's the things that communicate to her, "Thanks. I've got this."

Sounds like it's going to work out great. She really hit the jackpot with you.

 

[Donnea]

Great answer dogtrainer.
Here is my story:
I have a rescue that was never socialized, and lived the first 2+ years of his life outside on 5 acres and sometimes with very little human interaction.
He has attacked several dogs in the past and then them to the vet for stitches. He is a 75lb chow pitt mix, and when he goes red, it's scary.
His aggression is fear based. He will not seek out a fight, but if a dog gets in his face, he will finish that fight.
So- fast forward 5 years. This checked out (unable to communicate or look you in the eye) unruly anxiety ridden dog has become a calm, happy and polite couch potato that is a master communicator. He used to be afraid of everything. He would pretty much be scared of any tool in your hand, be it a can opener, a nail trimmer, or a measuring tape. He would run and hide behind the couch. I would grab a tool, quickly walk over (so he didn't have time to run) and let him smell it, and then immediately give him a treat because he was so good, and walk away with the scary tool. I did this over and over and over again, with everything I could think of. I worked a lot on eye contact as well. Before putting his food bowl down, he had to look at me. Before he could just run out he back door that I had just opened, or when I opened the car door, he has to look at me and get my ok. So it was all about communicating, and also about trusting me make the decisions. You just can't have a two year old be the one that decides when to cross the street. He has to leave that to me . I am not afraid to use the word "dominant" in this context. I am the dominant person as far as my dogs are concerned. I make the important decisions. It's not a democracy weather or not we cross a busy street right this moment, or start a fight with another dog. I alone make that decision. So weather or not it's a politically correct word in the dog training world, it is indeed a fact.
Being dominant does not mean that you are violent, mean or a tyrant. Being in charge is a huge responsibility.

I walk him off leash all the time at the beach. He knows he has to do only one thing- pay attention to me. I have 3 commands that has to be followed at all times: "come, get back, and wait". That is all he has to remember (he is not the brightest dog I have ever had . He does that, and he gets to be off leash, swim for sticks and have a blast. He no longer reacts to other dogs that we meet. I spot another dog, I tell him "get back" and he runs to me and sits behind me. He doesn't even look at the other dog, and he is happy that I take care of the "monster" for him. I protect his space from the other dog. Even if the other dog reacts to him, he sits behind me perfectly relaxed.
He loves the structure and predictability that I have given him. He likes to know what is going to happen and when. If it's 5 past 6 and he still has not had his dinner, he will tell me all about it. At 8:30 every night, he gets up off his bed in the living room, and walks into the bedroom. If I'm not there by 9, he will come back out and get me. In the mornings, I get up, take a shower, make some coffee, and have my first cup. Not until I put my pants on, does he get up, because now he knows it's time for the morning walk. He likes things to be safe and predictable.

I would say that structure and communication is super important for a scared dog to help them feel safe.
It has been a lot of work, and sometimes in the beginning I really hated having to micro manage him, give him "time outs" for not listening, etc.
At the end of the day though, it was all worth it, and he is now able to go with me everywhere and live a really good life.
He is also the most appreciative dog I have ever had.

FYI- he gets a pea sized drop of ProgestE once a week since he was neutered. He thinks it's a treat.
He also gets added B vitamins, since stress/anxiety burns through B vitamins quickly.
I make my own dog food normally, and use cronometer to check calcium to phosphorus ratio etc.
(I use NOW brand calcium carbonate. Bone meal can have heavy metal issues FYI)

Best of luck to you Jayvee.

​

 

[dogtrainer]

Are you aware of any service like this that allows customization of the the recipe, for example, “hold the fish oil”?

Probably not possible with the larger companies. I’m pretty sure AAFCO has some regulations for including the “essential” fatty acids usually sunflower oil from I’ve observed. You’d be better off batch cooking if you have a spare few hours on the weekends.

 

[Jayvee]

Thanks everyone. Some really good learning points for me (and the dog). As always I got more from this forum than I ever could from google.

I’m gonna experiment with a bit of progesterone, calcium carbonate and a little bit of thyroid too and see if it makes much difference to her response to stressors.

 

[Hans]

Thanks, She is a great sleeper (possibly too good) her biggest issues are around other dogs and background noises (some of this could be just natural drives as she is more wolf than dog).

Chamomile tea with honey has helped make these signs of stress less prevalent which to me shows their is some progress still to make. @Hans do you think Tyromix in the evening?

We've only tried it during the day, which has been very effective.

 

[Nemo]

Fwiw, my dog loves progest e - she always wants to lick my fingers after i apply some, and sometimes I rub a drop or two on her gums and she seems to like it.

Ray said on one of Danny Roddy's podcasts that he had a rabbit dying of brain cancer. When it tried to hop around, it would just fall over or bump into walls.

He smeared progest-e all over its ears and it started hopping around like normal again.