Re-introducing Dairy

Discussion in 'Diet' started by Zpol, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    So from what I can tell, dairy is pretty essential. I used to have bad eczema, pimples, and rashes. The first dietary change I made was quitting gluten which got rid of major brain fog, fatigue, and migraines. A couple months later I quit dairy and the eczema, pimples, and rashes went away as well. But perhaps they disappeared because of the lack of gluten too and it just took longer. Anyway I'm leery of consuming dairy again because there is a chance it's causing an autoimmune response. Plus lactose causes stomach distress and I already have small intestine bacterial overgrowth.

    So what should I do? Could it be the casein? Maybe goat milk would be better?
    Or maybe it's all due to lactose...so should I try lactose free milk instead?

    From what I've gathered, in people that have poor digestion/leaky gut lactose causes stomach distress (by increasing bacteria in the small intestine) and casein causes autoimmune response by leaking through the gut wall (same as gluten).

    I have tried goat cheese and seem to do well with it. But... it's cultured and does have microbial enzymes so should I quit that?

    I'm trying to heal from Hashimoto's, metabolic syndrome, PCOS, and severe chronic constipation so I feel I should avoid causing and autoimmune attack but milk seems to be essential for healing from the aforementioned things. Gosh, I really do miss milk. (I've been drinking almond milk, has no carageenan but does have some guar gum and added calcium)

    So basically...
    Is it better to avoid milk altogether than to risk an autoimmune flare up?
    I really love the goat cheese and eat it everyday. But should I avoid it due to the enzymes; if so what should I eat instead to get the calcium and protein (but not the lactose and casein)?
     
  2. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    I don't have your issues but wanted to immediately caution you against drinking almond milk!
    It is full of PUFA as it's made from ground almonds. 100 grams of almonds has 12 g of PUFA 31 g of MUFA and 3.7 g of saturated fat.

    For milk, I know that some who have had severe milk intolerance have had success going very slowly, say 1/4 c at a time. You may want to try goat milk or lactose free milk. Ray Peat recommends trying different sources until you find what works for you.

    I think if you are tolerating the goat cheese it is OK. It is important to find sources of foods that you tolerate. I find it very difficult to source pure cheese. Some forum members make their own and have posted the steps to do that. I think it's quite easy, just adding lemon juice or vinegar to milk.

    When you do introduce something new, make sure you change only that one thing, so you can monitor your response. This is the best way to determine if something is tolerated or causing issues. Same with removing something - do just one thing at a time.

    Hopefully others more familiar with your situation will chime as well. The most important thing is to get rid of the PUFA in your diet, and that includes the almond milk.
     
  3. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    It said on the carton 0.5g PUFA so I figured it was not a significant amount. But you are right I should discontinue it. Plus my instincts tell me it's probably not such a good thing.

    I'll look into making my own cheese. Thanks!

    I'm pretty sure lactose free will be easier to digest so I'll start there but if anyone has some advice regarding casein and leaky gut I'd be very interested. I'm just really concerned that casein may be a type of protein that can leak through the gut and trigger an autoimmune response. Lactose on the other hand is for sure a problem; I had a breath test using lactulose as the substance and it definitely resulted increased hydrogen output so thats no good.

    Do you know if Dr. Peat has any insight on casein and leaky gut?

    Please forgive me if this info is already out there somewhere and I just haven't located it yet. I want to get started following Dr. Peat's suggestions but it's taking me forever to research all the little nuances so I appreciate any tips or links to such info.
     
  4. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    This is Peat's article on milk
    OK here's the thing about leaky gut etc.
    Danny Roddy labeled leaky gut "the new adrenal fatigue."
    Basically, what is he saying and what Ray Peat says too is that all of these "issues" are the result or symptomatic of a busted metabolism.

    That quote is from Ray's article on milk. I would start there. You may want to go through Danny Roddy's "Your Gut From Hell" series - I'm not sure how many articles he wrote in that series but they may help.

    This is the first article in that series

    Do you tolerate OJ? Gelatin would help a lot as well. How about coffee? Eggs? Can you do liver and oysters (once per week, each)
    Making your own cheese would help I think. That and re-introducing dairy slowly. You can read what Peat says about intolerances to milk and overcoming it in his article.

    I understand there is so much to learn!! Oh and use the Ray Peat Search Engine created by Dan Wich in your searches. It's a veritable God send and saves an incredible amount of time and effort. The left side of the search engine searches just Peat article and work, the right side searches forums, groups and practitioners who follow/study Ray Peat.

    Ray Peat Search Engine

    Good luck and do keep us posted of your progress!
     
  5. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    I forgot to ask.
    Do you eat Peat's raw carrot salad every day?
    Best thing for the gut. That or cooked bamboo shoots but I've heard they taste pretty nasty. :shock:
     
  6. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Ray Peat does not believe that "Hashimoto" is really an autoimmune disease.
    He mentioned in earlier audio interviews that antibodies used to diagnose Hashimoto
    are not an autoimmune reaction. To be sure what he meant by antibody tests i asked him following question.

    Q: Do high level of Thyroglobulin Antibodies and Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Antibodies show autoimmune thyroditis?

    Ray Peat : When TSH is too high for a long time, it causes inflammation in the gland, and the antibodies are in reaction to that
     
  7. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Thank you for the links; i found them very helpful and informative.

    I can certainly attest to that. When I first started taking Levothyroxine my digestion was almost perfect for about 3 months, then back to back extremely not perfect. Again when my Doc increased my dosage I felt better for a while, but only for a couple weeks that time. Then she switched me to Armour and holy crap I felt AMAZING, digestion was great, energy level was great, this continued for about 3 months. However about 1.5 months into that I started getting severe symptoms of hyperthyroid, then after that I felt even worse than I did before. (BTW I'm now taking a combo of synthetics Levothyroxine and Cytomel; started this a few weeks ago). This experience led me to realization that hypothyroid is the primary cause of my case of SIBO. I am however left with trying to figure out how to get my body to continue to respond to the medication, and/or heal from hypothyroid completely.

    So basically, I have to figure out how to get my thyroid issues ironed out before I can digest adequate amounts of lactose.

    But for the time being (until I get my thyroid issues resolved), consuming lactose is causing endotoxin. Dr. Peat is saying though that milk is helpful in resolving thyroid issues. So is my understanding correct in that Dr. Peat is saying it is okay to have endotoxin whilst building up a tolerance to milk?

    That search engine is nifty. Thanks

    I hope to find more about casein specifically. I wonder if getting an antibody test would be helpful. I'll have to look into that and see if such tests are accurate.

    Danny Roddy's posts are a bit overwhelming. If only I had more time... there's just so much to research and try and experiment.

    I do eat the carrot salad, eggs, coffee, and fruit. Still working on the liver and oysters; I need to find good quality sources, how to prepare them, and fit this into my schedule, without causing stress.

    oh well ya know... baby steps
     
  8. Combie

    Combie Member

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    Ive found that supplementing with calcium carbonate seems to improve my digestion of dairy further down the line. It also keeps my gut flat, my mood even and me very, very warm (especially at this time of year, phew!)

    I use NOW calcium carbonate, 1/4tsp mixed into orange juice 2-3 times a day. Its good stuff if you dont wanna mess with eggshells. I take a vitamin K supplement too (LE Super K)

    In terms of re-introduction, try simply adding a little 1% milk to your coffee, and building it up from there until you are drinking latte's. Im not certain why, but lower fat milk seems much easier to digest.

    Of course, being able to drink milk means my Rice Krispie habit has returned! :eek:
     
  9. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Good tips, thanks Combie.
    I think calcium supp.'s can cause constipation though. But hell, I'm already constipated so maybe give it a try :D

    The last dairy I ate was lactose free yogurt; it did not go well. I think I'll try some lactose free lowfat milk, in coffee as you recommend. thanks!
     
  10. j.

    j. Guest

    I think that could be bad. Things can get worse.
     
  11. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    I think if something is causing worse constipation then it is not beneficial or is out of balance at this point in time, your body is not using it well. Maybe you need to be supplementing potassium and magnesium too or instead?
     
  12. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    I have been taking magnesium, lots of it. I usually eat 2 bananas plus other fruit that contains potassium, so I think I'm good there. Perhaps I should take potassium in supp. form as well to balance out all the magnesium.

    The constipation is caused by bacterial overgrowth which is caused by hypothyroid and low metabolism. Calcium is needed in order heal from that but how do I take it when it worsens my symptoms!? Is there a way to get in calcium without it causing digestion issues? I'm pretty sure my digestion is not going to be able to break down egg shells either; been trying to stick to soft foods.
     
  13. Swandattur

    Swandattur Member

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    Ray Peat does not advise eating bananas, unless you lived where you could get properly grown and ripened ones. The bananas could be causing problems. People have been giving lots of helpful advise on this thread. I wonder if dried rice and banana cereal would be okay, or would the bananas be just the same as the 'fresh' are?
     
  14. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    Ditch the bananas. Unless you are picking them off the tree yourself, you can assume they are mostly starch and are actually a poor source of potassium. They are also a source of chitinase which in combination with gluten and estrogen is the reason for celiacs and also affects calcium.

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml

    "The presence of the chitinase family of proteins in humans was first discovered in the inflamed asthmatic lung. It was then found at high levels in the uterine endometrium at the time of implantation of the embryo (an inflammation-like situation) and in the uterus during premature labor. Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered. Celiac disease is more prevalent among females, and it involves the immunological cross-reaction to an antigen in the estrogen-regulated transglutaminase enzyme and the gluten protein. The (calcium-regulated) transglutaminase enzyme is involved in the cross-linking of proteins in keratinized cells, in fibrotic processes in the liver, and in cancer. (People with celiac disease often suffer from osteoporosis and urinary stone deposition, [glow=red]showing a general problem with calcium regulation[/glow].)

    This means that estrogen and stress cause the appearance of antigens in the human or animal tissues that are essentially the same as the stress-induced and defensive proteins in plant tissues. A crocodile might experience the same sort of allergic reaction when eating estrogen-treated women and when eating commercial bananas."
     
  15. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    I've only been eating them when they are extremely ripe, borderline overripe, to be certain that all the starches have been converted into glucose.
    Plus I now eat only baby bananas, red bananas, and organic bananas due to the poor industrial agricultural methods of growing and harvesting the common type. From what I understand it's the stress caused by the aforementioned methods that causes the chitinase to form. But maybe these other types are getting to be over-industrialized too.

    I've been eating them because they have a near 1:1 ratio of fructose to glucose which makes them easier to digest especially in people with bacterial overgrowth. But I'll stop eating them if they are causing other problems.

    True, they probably don't contain enough potassium to balance out the enormous amounts of magnesium I take. I'll have to find a good source to supplement with.
     
  16. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Bone broths are good for healing the gut and contain a lot of minerals including calcium. Are you using gelatin?
     
  17. Swandattur

    Swandattur Member

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    If the bananas tested out as having no starch with an iodine test, then I wonder if they would be okay? Or might they still have chitinases?
     
  18. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    Try goat milk, you will like it. I tolerate it fine and have been drinking it a month. Put some instant coffee in it for "flavor".

    I agree about the bananas, they're bad news. If you want to have an instant mood change, eat a banana. I don't even tolerate ripe ones.
     
  19. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    I have started using gelatin. Haven't attempted bone broth yet. Where do you get the bones from? Do people usually get them from butchers?

    I'll give the goat milk a try. I just bought some lactose free milk so I'll try that first though.

    That's interesting that banana's give you a mood change. I haven't had that experience.
     
  20. HDD

    HDD Member

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    I get my bones from local grocery chain. I have also purchased feet from Asian markets. Chicken and beef. A little gross at first but just had to laugh at all the toes. Makes great gelatin.

    Lately, I buy whole "happy" chickens. The skin makes good gelatin. Skim off fat after it cools. Chicken wings work also.

    Oxtail is a common cut that many use.
     
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